Why take "rocks" into evidence??

[What'sThatClue]

Sort of OT....
Did I hear right on Nancy G last night, that Tim, when he found out where Lenny was going to search.
Tim took his team there first and did infact do some searching?

My thoughts on any search, no matter what equipment or man power you have, things can still be over looked. JMO

I've been wondering about that too. TM stated on NG that he went on Sunday morning with sonar? First I heard of that. I had previously heard that the area was searched back in August. Then last night TM said he personally searched it on Sun? Huh?

 

[Meemom]

I just do not see KC putting toys in a bag with her. She left her favorite doll in the car didn't she? You would think KC would have tossed the doll and the car seat if she was going to make believe she was with a "nanny" or whatever. My girls never went to the sitters without there favorite baby doll. Also, if anyone other than the sitter took the girls where ever, I had to give them the car seat.

I wonder what went thru KC's mind when she saw on TV that they had "found" something? But then again, she will just say someone else killed her as will her parents.

I want this whole circus to be over with.

I still think Casey had planned a staged "carjacking" to explain Caylee's disappearance. I think she was hoping someone would steal the car from the Amscott- leaving the carseat & doll would make it look like someone had taken the car from her, with Caylee still in it, later explaining any evidence in the car relating to Caylee's death. That also explains why she wasn't in any hurry to get gas into the car to drive it from the Amscott- IIRC, she waited till 6/30 to get Amy to take her to get a gas can. I think she went past the Amscott several times between 6/27 & 6/30, checking to see if the car had been stolen yet & when it wasn't by 6/30- she figured she better get it and think of something else, but by then, it was too late- car was towed.

 

[Silk]

O/T (sort of)
In the early 1980s in Greenwood, SC, an 8 year old girl, Kia Logan, was kidnapped while riding her bike in her apartment complex. A massive search went on and on for her. At one point, bones were found not too far from Kia's home. I worked in the local ER and was present when a deputy pulled into our ambulance bay with these bones in the trunk of the car and our on duty pathologist went to the car and immediately identified them as animal bones without hesitation. I was there and it took about a minute. No need to send them off, test, etc.

About a year later, a hunter in Newberry, SC, about 30 miles from Kia's home found a skull in the woods and some small bones. There was just enough change in the skull/teeth to make a firm identification that it was Kia. This skull sat in storage for about 20 years until it was sent to Quantico, VA for forensic testing and DNA. It was finally confirmed that it was Kia. No big publicity and no one was ever charged. (Whenever I read Iris Johnasen's book series about Eve the forensic sculptor, I think if someone had been able to do that 20 years ago, little Kia would have been identified years ago.)

Sadly, my points are a good pathologist knows animal bones versus human bones, no one ever thought of looking for Kia where she was found and Caylee may be somewhere where no one would ever consider looking. Cocoamom's theory sure is a great one and I think someone thinking outside the box will find Caylee versus LE who seems pretty closed minded, lately. And whomever finds her will likely just happen on something unexpectedly.

Back to lurking, now....

 

[raeann]

There could be very legitimate reasons for LE to take the items from the area, among these would be to shut down the media feeding frenzy, to use them to prove LP planted them, to keep them from ending up on E-Bay, etc. There was no stretcher shown yesterday, only a kind of seining net carried flat with a dark colored bag on it, and the people carrying it were NOT police or FBI. TOO MANY RUMORS and flat out wrong information is being perpetuated about this whole thing. It seems quite obvious that even though the divers and observers may truly THINK they saw something, that LE and FBI are more knowledgeable and experienced in these matters.

Amazing how the same LE that everyone seemed to think was so honest and God-like when they were "leaking" information a few months ago, is now being accused of lying and covering up evidence!

 

[angelmom]

This was the thing that made me hold my breath. Nothing comes to mind when I try to imagine why someone would throw a garbage bag of small toys into a river and weigh it down with a brick, cement block (or a paver anyone?).

I have actually been to quite a number of outdoor events and picnics where people put trash bags near the tables for convenience rather than walking a long distance to deposit items piece by piece into a public trash bin. I have also frequently seen them weighted down with rocks, large chunks of wood or whatever is close by to keep them from blowing away during the event. Maybe this is more common in Kansas winds than around Florida, but I could not even begin to count the number of kids parties, cookouts, and campfires where I have seen this done to hold trash bags in place. The small plastic junk type toys that have been described that were in the bag were very similar to ones used as cupcake decorations and birthday party bag favors. They also seem similar to "Happy Meal" toys. The bones/ broken plastic or whatever could easily be picnic leftovers of any kind.

After you carefully weighed down the trash so it woudn't blow away, do you then throw the whole thing in the river, including the bricks? :waitasec:

I guess it's possible, but it sounds like a reach to me. Especially since the toys were not related (i.e., if it were a group of the same toys or similar toys, then maybe they could be cupcake decorations or party favors, etc.). Random toys sounds like someone getting rid of everything they can find that might have evidence on it or a reminder of something.

Like I said, anything is possible. That explanation just isn't ringing true to me. I would think a plastic fork or some remnant of actual trash would be there too.

 

[tiredofthis]

I asked my Dad (retired Police Chief/FBI) about the rocks - luckily he was watching the recovery also on the news - I asked him why would they take the rocks? If they aren't bones?

He told m that even underwater DNA could still be on whatever they found - there could be hairs or fibers

So I asked but rocks? He said that they might not have been rocks, LE might not say right then, LE doesn't release everything

Then I told him that 3 unmarked cars went to the A's house soon after the find - and left with a bag of stuff - he said that he is sure that LE is looking for fresher DNA and to compare some things

He's not sure if this is connected, as he reminded me again he's not privy to any information, he's not there looking at documents and evidence

He does say that Casey killed the child and she will be convicted

He is the expert, in over 50 years of police/detective work including working on the Manson murder case, he's pretty much seen it all

I will agree with the man who has over 50 years police/detective experience. I'm sure he knows what he is talking about.

 

[trac]

I will agree with the man who has over 50 years police/detective experience. I'm sure he knows what he is talking about.

When I see on the boards here the same questions and no one really can answer them I ask my Dad - I figure he might be able to shed some light on that part that none of us can think of

It was funny - he retired about 25 years ago - he told me that DNA testing didn't really start until after he retired - they had to go with fingerprints and tangible evidence then - he was a dectective in the 50's in forgery and auto theft - so the forgery charges he straightened that out for me immediately in this case

In the 60's he worked as a fingerprinter with homicide -still no DNA but he was a CSI person, much what you see on those CSI shows - he was a valuable resource for the OJ trial and Peterson trial for me

Then he was on the CSI team for the Manson murders - okay that spooked me a lot when I was young -he then got a Police Chief job - and was trained FBI in the 70's

So the gathering of evidence and the way LE acts is valuable in this case - sure I can get him to read some reports but he doesn't want to, he thinks I'm too wrapped up in this case anyways

Whatever info I can get from him I'll try to shed some light here

 

[FifthEssence]

I caught that too. There is no way they can possibly know the toys are not Caylee's and if they are relying on what Cindy has told them, they can forget it.

Don't know that these found articles are anything directly connected to Caylee, but the LE comment about knowing what toys Caylee has/had was ridiculous since that info was given to them in the beginning from The Truth Seeker, Cindy.

I do think Casey did discard other articles of crime evidence or association in her travels around town, after she hid Caylee's body.

 

[BetsyB]

Cocoamom's theory sure is a great one and I think someone thinking outside the box will find Caylee versus LE who seems pretty closed minded, lately. And whomever finds her will likely just happen on something unexpectedly.

Back to lurking, now....

I agree wholeheartedly that thinking outside the box is a good idea (though I don't think Casey is any brain trust and probably wasn't nearly as imaginative we sometimes give her credit for).

I do think it might be fairer, at this point, to consider LE closed-mouthed rather than closed-minded. As much as we consider this case ours, it really is not, and if information is being withheld to further it, then IMO it's a good thing.

 

[LCoastMom]

It appears you and I had the same feelings regarding weighing down a bag of toys. I didn't realize the bag was partially open though. I KNOW KC would never have put the effort forth to dismember Caylee and it makes me ill just considering it. So I have been trying to rectify the possibility of 'parts' being found.

Let's just recall the storm going through and the water rising. Along with that we have stronger currents. Anything large and near an opening in the bag could easily be carried away. With the bag lighter and less bulky, it's possibly the silt just began settling on top until the bag was completely covered.

It could be nothing. OR it could be everything. I just want her found.

The bag was apparently torn open after going in the water. The way Murt worded it was 'animal activity' then more directly 'gators' also 'bag remains'. We weren't hearing about an intact bag at all. A gator is not going to tear a bag open that is full of bricks or plastic toys. There had to be something in the bag to get the gators attention.

When my kids were small, the bottom of my purse was a virtual treasure chest of junk from kids meals, gumball type machines, stuff kids love for 30 seconds then hand off to mommy completely forgotten. She wouldn't put toys in the bag for Caylee, the toys needed to go. Reminds me of all the Caylee pictures KC dumped.

I had Murt on early yesterday, turned it back on just before Murt came back on air to talk about the possible find. I thought it would be a relief, maybe the beginning of the end, instead I got violently ill.

 

[Capri]

I agree wholeheartedly that thinking outside the box is a good idea (though I don't think Casey is any brain trust and probably wasn't nearly as imaginative we sometimes give her credit for).

I do think it might be fairer, at this point, to consider LE closed-mouthed rather than closed-minded. As much as we consider this case ours, it really is not, and if information is being withheld to further it, then IMO it's a good thing.

That's a good way of putting it.

 

[concentric]

That's what I said earlier: kid's meal toys. The animal bones could be chicken bones.

Weighted down with a brick? Was it inside the bag or on top of it.

If on top, someone could have just thrown the brick or slab, whatever from the bridge for fun and it ended up on the bag.

 

[4oneluv]

Why take anything at all into evidence??If there was NO EVIDENTUARY value in what they found, then why take the supposed "rocks"??? Something is ROTTEN in what just happened!!!

You are so right, I think they are all upset at the find and were trying to get the crowd out of the park in case anything else was found I believe they are not wanting to let it out right now, something is just not right at the Econ River

 

[4oneluv]

They would not take little rocks into evidence... what is it evidence of? Um, let's see... nope, drawing a blank. And for the toys - who would weight down kid toys with bricks and why? Or were those not weighted down...?

What the diver found was a black garbage bag that was weighed down by bricks, but at the time he did not know it was weighed down so he brought it up and it had the toys in it and the bone fragments, that they are now saying was rocks, these divers have done this for years and have found bones before and I am pretty sure they know what bones look like not to mention the fact that the reporter even stated it look like bones, I think something is up with the rocks, because you dont take rocks into evidence unless they were used as a weapon or in the crime itself.:bang:

 

[concentric]

The divers did what they were supposed to do, report findings to make sure it ISN'T something significant. Just IMO, as always.

 

[Marina2]

Did I read that LE said that the "toys" did not belong to Caylee because they have been in her house and seen her toys?
If that is what they said I would think that toys found in the water today would not be toys that anyone would see at the A's home for the simple fact that the toys found were already removed from the house before LE searched the house. If KC buried/hid toys of Caylee's with her body in July then LE would never have seen these toys - so how could they state so quickly that these are not part of the case?

You did read that because the statement is being incorrectly attributed to LE. It was actually a response Mike Brooks made on the NG show to a caller's question. LE never made this statement.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My question is, I`ve watched the coverage all afternoon, the live coverage from here, from outside of Orlando, and the lead detective, one of the lead detectives arrived at the scene and one of the FBI agents arrived.
They were there less than 15 minutes, the lead detective shook his head and said, this is, you know, it doesn`t relate to the case. I don`t even understand how they can do that.
GRACE: What about it, Mike Brooks? How could so quickly rule it out, especially the little toys?
MIKE BROOKS, FMR. DC POLICE DETECTIVE SERVED ON FBI TERRORISM TASK FORCE: Yes, I -- you know, Nancy, they know. They have been working this. They know from leads. They have been in the house. They`ve done search warrants. They know what`s human bone probably looks like because they are homicide investigator and that`s what the specialize it.
And you know, if you got the FBI and the Orange County there with the experience, both of those departments, they say it`s not related.
GRACE: You know, would seen it. They would at least take it and look at it.
BROOKS: Well, if it`s not related to it, if it`s not anything.
GRACE: Well, how would you know that, especially the toys?
BROOKS: Well, they probably know what kind of toys were in the house, what kind of toys did she had -- had played with.
GRACE: OK. All right, whatever.
BROOKS: I`m telling you, Nancy.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0811/13/ng.01.html

 

[concentric]

I don't think the press should have reported on it right away before they specifically knew what it was. For me, that was a bit sensationalistic and over the top. But, I guess they need ratings.

 

[redtailhawk]

That's what I said earlier: kid's meal toys. The animal bones could be chicken bones.

Weighted down with a brick? Was it inside the bag or on top of it.

If on top, someone could have just thrown the brick or slab, whatever from the bridge for fun and it ended up on the bag.

Well if it were items from a kids meal....and it was a chicken meal, one would guess it was chicken nuggets......chicken nuggets have no bones. Hmmmm

 

[concentric]

Well if it were items from a kids meal....and it was a chicken meal, one would guess it was chicken nuggets......chicken nuggets have no bones. Hmmmm

Could have been from a chicken place, and they ate pieces of chicken.

 

[concentric]

Who is to say, an adult didn't eat the chicken and put the bones in the bag? Maybe ordered kid's meals too and threw the toys out.