Why Would Terri Implore DeDe To Help Her?

[froginTtown]

Geese, I'm 40 something... and I've never heard the word "implore" used so often..... Just saying.....

 

[debs]

Oooooooh! I get it now. Okay, so even if we throw out the "hold out a little longer" comment. It HAS been reported in MSM that DeDe was encouraging others who may have info about the case not to cooperate. So my point still stands:

Could we be looking at this backwards? Could DeDe be the mastermind in all of this?

It has not been reported that DeDe told others not to cooperate. It was alleged by Desiree in the media. Huge difference with no substantiation.

 

[grandmaj]

http://www.portlandtribune.com/news/story.php?story_id=127986068822133000

Law enforcement investigators told Kaine Horman and Desiree Young that Terri Moulton Horman had apparently been in “close contact” with DeDe Spicher. They said Spicher also had provided “support and advice” to Terri Horman, Kaine’s estranged wife.

This statement prefaced the letter from Kaine and Desiree.

Kaine and desiree also state in their letter that the information came from Law Enforcement.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

A basic life truth is that, at times, people will do things with a partner or a group that they would never do on their own. Most of the time, that behavior is relatively harmless, like spending more money when shopping with a friend, or breaking a diet because others are eating, or having "one more drink" when out with a group. Sometimes, a combination is highly combustible. Dave Cullen, in his book about the Columbine school shootings, lays out the relationship between Eric Harris, whom he describes as a psychopath intent on murder and Dylan Klebold, who was a depressive personality at risk for suicide. Put them together and a mass killing happens.

It is entirely possible that TH and DS have in most respect an unremarkable friendship, and DS's involvement is a result of a friend "helping" a friend and getting pulled in over her head.

It is also possible that the two have a more complex dynamic in which DS plays rescuer and tries to fix TH's life or where TH uses DS to keep a life separate from Kaine going, etc.

it is also possible that one is far more dangerous than the other and has led the way to doing something unthinkable, activities that are both criminal and morally repugnant--and by that, I just mean kidnapping. That's already over the "thinkable" threshold. Then there's murder for hire and worse.

We really can't interpret this relationship until we know more. Another point that Cullen makes in Columbine is how bad a job the media did in researching and reporting who who the killers
were and what their relationship was like. Instead, the public was fed rumors like the "Trenchcoat Mafia." While the investigation is going on, LE is not likely to reveal what all they know about the individual psychological profiles of these two, and without that insight, we can't hope to figure out how they interacted. And public statements by Kaine or Desiree aren't objective enough for sleuthers to rely on. In the end, LE will dig up the past 7 or 8 years and some forensic psychologists will have a go at figuring out how each of them alone and the two of them together ended up at the focal point of Kyron's disappearance.

 

[daisy.faithfull]

A basic life truth is that, at times, people will do things with a partner or a group that they would never do on their own. Most of the time, that behavior is relatively harmless, like spending more money when shopping with a friend, or breaking a diet because others are eating, or having "one more drink" when out with a group. Sometimes, a combination is highly combustible. Dave Cullen, in his book about the Columbine school shootings, lays out the relationship between Eric Harris, whom he describes as a psychopath intent on murder and Dylan Klebold, who was a depressive personality at risk for suicide. Put them together and a mass killing happens.

It is entirely possible that TH and DS have in most respect an unremarkable friendship, and DS's involvement is a result of a friend "helping" a friend and getting pulled in over her head.

It is also possible that the two have a more complex dynamic in which DS plays rescuer and tries to fix TH's life or where TH uses DS to keep a life separate from Kaine going, etc.

it is also possible that one is far more dangerous than the other and has led the way to doing something unthinkable, activities that are both criminal and morally repugnant--and by that, I just mean kidnapping. That's already over the "thinkable" threshold. Then there's murder for hire and worse.

We really can't interpret this relationship until we know more. Another point that Cullen makes in Columbine is how bad a job the media did in researching and reporting who who the killers
were and what their relationship was like. Instead, the public was fed rumors like the "Trenchcoat Mafia." While the investigation is going on, LE is not likely to reveal what all they know about the individual psychological profiles of these two, and without that insight, we can't hope to figure out how they interacted. And public statements by Kaine or Desiree aren't objective enough for sleuthers to rely on. In the end, LE will dig up the past 7 or 8 years and some forensic psychologists will have a go at figuring out how each of them alone and the two of them together ended up at the focal point of Kyron's disappearance.

Great post pittsburghgirl, I have to get that book.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Absolutely. It's a great way to learn about the dynamic between two people who kill together. Because these killers were still teenagers, there is a lot of evidence about their crimes and states of minds, in the form of web postings, print journals, school assignments, as well as psychological assessments for both boys because they were caught in a stolen car. Eric was seen as the "model" patient participating in the youth intervention process because as a psychopath, he was committed to figuring out what authority figures wanted and giving it to them. Dylan, on the other hand, was not seen as cooperative.

The book is not too long and is packed with insights into how a major national media story gets many facts wrong, how some people involved in the case preferred myths to the truth, and how (in this case) law enforcement and political figures covered up things they didn't want to be known by the public. It's very readable.

All that said, I certainly hope (as do we all) that neither TH nor DS have crossed over the line to actual murder. Mark my words, there will turn out to be an interesting dynamic between these two women, but it will take really good reporting (and a resolved case) to illuminate it.

 

[kimmera]

"Sneaking" (or not mentioning) having a very good friend like Terri did with DeDe and never mentioning it to her husband- WHY? Maybe they had a fairly non-communicative relationship and thats why. Maybe he couldn't have cared less who her friends were....

BBM~
OR, maybe it was Terri that kept that part of her life secret. It sure seems to me that this woman had A LOT of secrets. Perhaps she needed to keep her friends away from Kaine in order to perpetuate the idea that KH was some type of villain. The more the friends were around KH, the more likely they were to realize that he is not the monster that TH painted him to be. :twocents: JMO.

 

[pittsburghgirl]

For a number of years, I trained at local gyms in one suburban area, working with a variety of trainers. I had a number of "gym friends" who knew as much about my life as most other people. They bought me wedding gifts, we had parties, etc. I visited my trainer in the hospital when she had a baby. My husband heard about these people but never met them--and probably knew little or nothing about their lives. I think the same situation arises with "work friends." I know when one of my "gym friends" was contemplating divorce and another was thinking of quitting her job. I wouldn't have dreamed of discussing those interactions with my husband. All of those relationships have faded because I moved to another area of the city. But I still miss the regular connections and the talks we had about "life" when we went running or walking, just as I miss "work friends" who retire or move away. My husband has "bar friends" from his local pub that I don't know as well as office buddies. We're married and we love each other, but we aren't joined at the hip, and we draw the line at intense "friendships" of the opposite sex. So I am not sure, again, that these details tell us anything about TH or Kaine.

 

[sherbetjello]

I had so much to type here, but I don't want a time-out. Question, if I post what my "theory" is will I get a time out? It's a theory that relates to the title of this thread, so it's related... but, my theory is waaaaay out there. And, I don't want a time-out.

 

[Kimster]

I had so much to type here, but I don't want a time-out. Question, if I post what my "theory" is will I get a time out? It's a theory that relates to the title of this thread, so it's related... but, my theory is waaaaay out there. And, I don't want a time-out.

You are supposed to contact a mod privately rather than ask on the board. :wink: Pick a mod and ask. Promise we won't bite!

 

[marlap]

I really suspect that TH roped DD in somehow based on the fact that they look somewhat alike. She may have been using her for an alibi or something?

I'm inclined to think that if TH is guilty in Kyron's disappearance, she acted alone in terms of hurting/hiding him.

I think she may have used DD and others for alibis, to deflect blame, maybe even hide evidence not knowing what exactly they were hiding.

I think DD may have helped TH thinking she was helping hide Kyron from a mean dad (all TH Bullcorn), and NOW that DD realizes that wasn't the case, she's trying to protect herself from some form of prosecution.

However TH may have used DD, I think in TH's mind, it was based on the fact that they look alike.

If more than one person are involved nefariously though, as in planned together to harm or hide Kyron...I will not be shocked.

Right now, I'm inclined to think TH is good at manipulating people and that is what she did to DD, MC, etc.

 

[IBsleuthin]

The better question here would be, WHAT could TH POSSIBLY say to DD to get her to cooperate?

WHAT possible motive would DD have to do anything remotely like this?

Also, IF she did.

Manipulation only works with whatever it would be to manipulate someone with. In a job it could be fear of losing your job or promise of promotion. In love it could be fear of losing that loved one or the promise of a relationship.

In crime it usually has to do with one person knowing that the other person has committed a crime and that other person using that information as leverage against them.

So again you have to ask yourself WHAT could TH POSSIBLY have used as leverage to incite DD to help her?





Love?

 

[marlap]

The better question here would be, WHAT could TH POSSIBLY say to DD to get her to cooperate?

WHAT possible motive would DD have to do anything remotely like this?

Also, IF she did.

Manipulation only works with whatever it would be to manipulate someone with. In a job it could be fear of losing your job or promise of promotion. In love it could be fear of losing that loved one or the promise of a relationship.

In crime it usually has to do with one person knowing that the other person has committed a crime and that other person using that information as leverage against them.

So again you have to ask yourself WHAT could TH POSSIBLY have used as leverage to incite DD to help her?





Love?

Very good questions! If DD is fully in on whatever TH did to Kyron, maybe money induced her. Didn't DD just lose a job?

 

[AbbieNormal]

Welcome, Harlequin. Sorry I am a bit behind reading the threads last couple of days....

:Welcome-12-june:nline:

abbie

 

[cluciano63]

If Terri did this and had help from Dede, she will likely regret it, as Dede is the only thing that will stand between life in prison or reasonable doubt. What do they say, two people can keep a secret, as long as one of them is dead?

 

[cypress]

The accusation by Desiree and Kaine based on information by LE, is that Dede was advising Terri in ways that were not in Kyron's best interests, not the other way around.

Based on the statements by Desiree and Kaine per LE's information, there's more evidence that Dede is the dominant personality than there is that Terri is or was manipulating Dede, IMHO.

 

[cluciano63]

The accusation by Desiree and Kaine based on information by LE, is that Dede was advising Terri in ways that were not in Kyron's best interests, not the other way around.

Based on the statements by Desiree and Kaine per LE's information, there's more evidence that Dede is the dominant personality than there is that Terri is or was manipulating Dede, IMHO.

I had the impression that Dede might have influenced some of the other women, not so much Terri? The others in the phone group. Also, being that this came from D&K, not really sure how much I read into it, as one day they say LE tells them nothing and then they say something like this. I think they draw their own conclusions.

My feeling is that if Terri is involved, she needed Dede at some point after the fact, and that may be her downfall, as someone will get the better deal here, and I think it is more likely to be Dede. Maybe not immunity, but better than whatever Terri would end up getting.

 

[cypress]

I had the impression that Dede might have influenced some of the other women, not so much Terri? The others in the phone group. Also, being that this came from D&K, not really sure how much I read into it, as one day they say LE tells them nothing and then they say something like this. I think they draw their own conclusions.

My feeling is that if Terri is involved, she needed Dede at some point after the fact, and that may be her downfall, as someone will get the better deal here, and I think it is more likely to be Dede. Maybe not immunity, but better than whatever Terri would end up getting.

When did she need Dede, though?

IMHO, either Dede is involved up to her eyeballs in the abduction, hiding, killing, or disposing of Kyron, or she's not involved at all. Terri may have confessed after the fact, but if it was as "simple" as that, Dede would've already testified while holding her handy dandy immunity card and Terri would be in jail, IMHO.

At this point, it's pretty clear to me that Terri didn't use Dede as a decoy at the store or at the gym. Andrea saw Terri at FM. Terri was a regular at the gym. I strongly believe Terri was at the gym per this statement by Andrea:

Reporter: Did you approach detectives or did they question you first?

Andrea: Well, they had questions about her activity at the club, had she been in the gym, wanting to just verify if she had been in that day, like reference to time, where she spent her time that day, if she had the children with her, and so they began to contact me about that.

IMHO, if Terri hadn't been at the gym, the other questions wouldn't have been asked.

Per Andrea, she knew Terri from her time spent at the gym. Dede couldn't pass for Terri in a place where people knew her by sight and the baby by nickname, IMHO. Dede wasn't babysitting baby K while Terri was running around establishing her alibi, as Andrea says she had the baby with her at FM.

Dede wasn't driving a getaway car or what have you, as the reliable witnesses at the farm say Dede's car remained on the property all day.

So the only times Dede would've been needed would've been at the school or when Terri was driving baby K around to soothe her/kill Kyron.

IMHO, if Terri was with Dede that day, they were either both involved to the nth degree, or neither were involved, and they were doing something else. I'm not making a comment about their relationship, either, just FYI, but literally, if they are innocent of what happened to Kyron, and they were together that day, they were doing something else.

 

[cypress]

I had the impression that Dede might have influenced some of the other women, not so much Terri? The others in the phone group. Also, being that this came from D&K, not really sure how much I read into it, as one day they say LE tells them nothing and then they say something like this. I think they draw their own conclusions.

My feeling is that if Terri is involved, she needed Dede at some point after the fact, and that may be her downfall, as someone will get the better deal here, and I think it is more likely to be Dede. Maybe not immunity, but better than whatever Terri would end up getting.

Based on statements by Desiree and Kaine and Dede's sudden emergence into the spotlight, I firmly believe the batphones were Dede's idea. Dede came to live with Terri after Kaine left. The batphones were purchased after Kaine left. Desiree and Kaine, per LE's briefings, said Dede was advising Terri in ways that were not beneficial to the investigation. It adds up that Dede was the brains behind the batphones, IMHO.

 

[cluciano63]

I'm not sure about Dede, Cypress...don't know what to think. I just can't imagine a plot with two women plotting harm against a small boy. It seems as though Dede was accounted for, as far as we know from early AM until about 9:45 or so, which seems to preclude the abduction. That's why I am thinking any "help" she gave would be afterward. And maybe she is trying to avoid being charged with accessory or she has guilty knowledge. I just don't know-as a LE daughter, she may be more cautious about speaking without a deal.