WI WI - Deidre Harm, 21, Wisconsin Rapids, 11 June 2006

[Ang50]

Ross Brandt's criminal record - interesting info.

On 3/15/2006 - Ross was sentenced for his 3rd drunk driving conviction - 45 days Huber to begin on that date. 2 years plus of license revocation. So he would have gotten out of jail by May 1, 2006, but won't be able to drive until 2008.

10/2006 - Post-paternity action - so Ross had already been determined to be the father by then. Diedre's baby was born right at the end of January 06, and would have been about 6 months old at the time of Diedre's disappearance. Of interest - substituted service was attempted on Ross's mother in the post-paternity action. It may possibly mean they have had trouble finding Ross. Also may mean that he wasn't paying support b/c of the affadavit of contempt.

I got lost trying to calculate jail time on Ross. However, it appeared that he was "off paper" - meaning not on probation after getting out of jail. He had not been in jail for almost a year in 2005. Prior to that, he was in and out quite a bit - a year plus at one point. Overall - from 18 to 26, I would guess he served at least 3 years total in jail. Never went to prison, though.

 

[Ang50]

Compiled news articles and pictures here - http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/forensics/diedre_harm/index.html

Dierdre's myspace site -
http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/forensics/diedre_harm/index.html

 

[docwho3]

Docwho - you are a frequent poster here as well - and I believe were also involved in the Christine Rudy case from northern WI where we ran across this same issue.

I maintain that what I have posted is INFORMATION and I made a particular effort not to veer into speculation. What I posted was factual, or I extrapolated based on the legal implications of those facts. . .

I make no judgements about your posts. I said that I could see both sides of the issue, that websleuths is about discussing and finding the truth, as you had said, but I also can understand the objections of those close to the case who want a sanctuary. Since Websleuths makes both discussion and sanctuary possible but in different threads I merely provided that info for all concerned.

I am happy to see that you have begun a thread for case discussion.

 

[Ang50]

One other angle - other sites have mentioned that Dierdre has a yahoo personals site and Myspace. They speculate about possibly meeting someone. Her myspace site specifically mentioned that she had some days off and would be going out.

I would think it unlikely except that a double homicide suspect from Alabama (Arkansas?) was found up in Menominee, WI - visiting a college student he had met online. She had no idea. Scary!!

 

[Ang50]

I make no judgements about your posts. I said that I could see both sides of the issue, that websleuths is about discussing and finding the truth, as you had said, but I also can understand the objections of those close to the case who want a sanctuary. Since Websleuths makes both discussion and sanctuary possible but in different threads I merely provided that info for all concerned.

I am happy to see that you have begun a thread for case discussion.

I realize you were not making judgments, and it seems the de facto policy here is to allow "discussion" until someone objects. My point was that I don't believe I crossed the line into discussion, even, (and didn't state that the purpose of this forum was "discussing and finding the truth") but that I was stating information. Doesn't matter, and this detracts from the case anyway. I hope you will weigh in on the case discussion thread.

 

[docwho3]

You have mentioned some interesting information and some interesting possibilities. Do you have a top two favorite possibilities on your list so far or have you become certain that one possibility is absolutely the correct one?

Either way I hope you share your thoughts.

 

[cheko1]

Ang,

I will post more in the morning....on this. I don't think she wandered off on her own. From what I read she had to of left with someone she knew & trusted. I seriously doubt she left with a stranger........

 

[Ang50]

You have mentioned some interesting information and some interesting possibilities. Do you have a top two favorite possibilities on your list so far or have you become certain that one possibility is absolutely the correct one?

Either way I hope you share your thoughts.

I don't know enough of the players to draw a conclusion, but with any case, I start from the closest people and work out. That's why Ross would be someone I'd look at. He's had some DC convictions where no contact orders with women his age were ordered.

The problem I have with any stranger theory is that the locals are saying you would have to know the area to get to where she was found. Both the bars she was at that night were also strip clubs. That makes it possibly more likely that she would run into a more subversive element than a general local bar. So it potentially supports the stranger theory. And she didn't have a car, so maybe she met some guy and he offered her a ride home - just a few blocks, what could go wrong? That one cuts both ways - stranger or not.

Additionally, I know it can happen, but how likely is a young mother to go off with a man that she doesn't know? I did that when I was young, but I felt differently after having kids (I was older, but still... you become more aware of your personal safety b/c you have a responsibility outside yourself). All evidence points that Deidre was a concientious mother who adored her daughter, so I think it cuts against going with a stranger.

 

[Ang50]

Ang,

I will post more in the morning....on this. I don't think she wandered off on her own. From what I read she had to of left with someone she knew & trusted. I seriously doubt she left with a stranger........

Thanks cheko - looking forward to your thoughts. We WI'ers need to help if we can.

Do you know Rapids at all?

 

[docwho3]

I don't know enough of the players to draw a conclusion, but with any case, I start from the closest people and work out. . .

A good sound approach.

. . .The problem I have with any stranger theory is that the locals are saying you would have to know the area to get to where she was found. Both the bars she was at that night were also strip clubs. That makes it possibly more likely that she would run into a more subversive element than a general local bar. So it potentially supports the stranger theory. And she didn't have a car, so maybe she met some guy and he offered her a ride home - just a few blocks, what could go wrong? That one cuts both ways - stranger or not. . . .

Has anyone considered the possibility of another evil bouncer as in the Imette St Guillen case? That would be someone who may have seemed like a person she could trust and yet would also be a sort of stranger at the same time, a stranger that might not seem like a stranger and he would likely know the right area.

Still it is also important, as you mentioned, to start close to her and work outward from there as well.

 

[Ang50]

Last night I was thinking about this and I think the key is what Dierdre was most likely to do that night.

She got separated from her friends and had no car. She's out late at night. I'll bet she did not want to walk home alone. (That or she met some other people and they were going to go somewhere else to party - the two most likely scenarios.) So it would be fairly easy for someone to get her alone by offering a ride or to escort her. She'd be likely to accept, even from someone she recently met, because the unknown dangers lurking on the walk home are scarier. (I did this all the time in college...)

So they get to a car, he makes advances and is spurned and he gets tremendously angry. Maybe he beats or strangles her and then dumps her.

That's the unplanned scenario. The planned one, I think, starts with her Myspace site - someone would know she planned on going out, one news article says these bars/clubs were her usual hangout, so they would know where to run into her. From there, a ride home or a "Can we talk?" would be all that was needed.

 

[cheko1]

Like you I'd start working from the closest outwards.....I have been to Wis Rapids 4 times yrs ago, not actually very familiar with it. My boys wrestled in Marshfield & Wi Rapids.

She has 2 very close friends, Heather & Sam, I'm sure they have worked every element of that night they can possibly think of. Probably questioning everyone they possibly knew & anyone who may of even been an acquaintance.

Your 2 theories are what I also came up with. If she could of gotten into a car with someone to go on to another party, you'd think someone would of known or seen something. I sincerely think someone knows alot more then they're saying. I'm even leaning towards a married man who offered her a ride. He can't / won't say anything because of fear his wife would find out. I doubt it is under age drinkers, like LE is thinking. A married man is more likely.... possibly seperated at the time from his wife, doing whatever he could to get back together with her. Might even be they were secretly seeing each other & she threatened to tell his wife? Stranger things have happened.

Ross would be my second guess, good chance he was watching her & knew she was out. Even if she left the bar alone to walk home. Having several drinks in her she'd of went to his car to talk to him. He would sweet talk her, him threatening to take Vegas away from her for being a party animal, she'd take a swing at him. Has he taken a polygraph test do you know??? I'm sure LE has questioned him & he must have an alibi.

Either guy would be familiar with the area where the body was dumped. This is so sad......the poor baby.

I'm going to try finding more info on this.....

 

[Ang50]

Like you I'd start working from the closest outwards.....I have been to Wis Rapids 4 times yrs ago, not actually very familiar with it. My boys wrestled in Marshfield & Wi Rapids.

She has 2 very close friends, Heather & Sam, I'm sure they have worked every element of that night they can possibly think of. Probably questioning everyone they possibly knew & anyone who may of even been an acquaintance.

Your 2 theories are what I also came up with. If she could of gotten into a car with someone to go on to another party, you'd think someone would of known or seen something. I sincerely think someone knows alot more then they're saying. I'm even leaning towards a married man who offered her a ride. He can't / won't say anything because of fear his wife would find out. I doubt it is under age drinkers, like LE is thinking. A married man is more likely.... possibly seperated at the time from his wife, doing whatever he could to get back together with her. Might even be they were secretly seeing each other & she threatened to tell his wife? Stranger things have happened.

Ross would be my second guess, good chance he was watching her & knew she was out. Even if she left the bar alone to walk home. Having several drinks in her she'd of went to his car to talk to him. He would sweet talk her, him threatening to take Vegas away from her for being a party animal, she'd take a swing at him. Has he taken a polygraph test do you know??? I'm sure LE has questioned him & he must have an alibi.

Either guy would be familiar with the area where the body was dumped. This is so sad......the poor baby.

I'm going to try finding more info on this.....

OK - first and least impt - when did your boys wrestle and for what H.S.? We're VERY involved in the wrestling community - my brother went to state 3 years in a row, and I know most teams and wrestlers from the early 90's on. The only reason I was ever in Rapids was for state folkstyle - year after year...

Married man is an interesting possibility, but do you think her friends would know? I don't know about Ross - but I mentioned earlier that I don't believe he's on probation (remember SRudy - they revoked him for the guns found in the car stop and then kept him in jail until they found Christine?) so they can't do much unless they have some good evidence. A person close to the situation said he was "proveably" out of the area - but I'm not sure what that means... and so have no idea if he's been cleared.

 

[cheko1]

OK - first and least impt - when did your boys wrestle and for what H.S.? We're VERY involved in the wrestling community - my brother went to state 3 years in a row, and I know most teams and wrestlers from the early 90's on. The only reason I was ever in Rapids was for state folkstyle - year after year...

Married man is an interesting possibility, but do you think her friends would know? I don't know about Ross - but I mentioned earlier that I don't believe he's on probation (remember SRudy - they revoked him for the guns found in the car stop and then kept him in jail until they found Christine?) so they can't do much unless they have some good evidence. A person close to the situation said he was "proveably" out of the area - but I'm not sure what that means... and so have no idea if he's been cleared.

One wrestled at state in 91 for Somerset at 125 lbs.....he was so ill running fever of 104, stomach pain, he should never of went. Not sure what yr the other one wrestled, will ask him tonight was several yrs later, 6 yrs difference in age.

She may not of told any of her friends about the married man. Could of been rather iffy or maybe someone they all knew.......reason I considered the married man, she was adament her Dad move her in ASAP to her apartment. Yes she would of been very excited to get moved into her own place. She could of had her friends help her move, boxes..........etc Even Gabe could of helped her, if he had a car.

Ross is still a pretty big puzzle piece, provably out of area??? He could of come back.......did he have 100% proof he was gone & was with people all night long? He needs given a polygraph test. Gabe also needs to take one, his word is also not good enough that she left him & said she'd be right back. Something just is wrong with this entire scenario........nobody seen anything.

Is the bars big enough to loose someone? Bouncers, owners of the bar? Sounds like she frequented the places so she had to of been known, by either a bartender or a bouncer.

 

[Ang50]

One wrestled at state in 91 for Somerset at 125 lbs.....he was so ill running fever of 104, stomach pain, he should never of went. Not sure what yr the other one wrestled, will ask him tonight was several yrs later, 6 yrs difference in age.

She may not of told any of her friends about the married man. Could of been rather iffy or maybe someone they all knew.......reason I considered the married man, she was adament her Dad move her in ASAP to her apartment. Yes she would of been very excited to get moved into her own place. She could of had her friends help her move, boxes..........etc Even Gabe could of helped her, if he had a car.

Ross is still a pretty big puzzle piece, provably out of area??? He could of come back.......did he have 100% proof he was gone & was with people all night long? He needs given a polygraph test. Gabe also needs to take one, his word is also not good enough that she left him & said she'd be right back. Something just is wrong with this entire scenario........nobody seen anything.

Is the bars big enough to loose someone? Bouncers, owners of the bar? Sounds like she frequented the places so she had to of been known, by either a bartender or a bouncer.

That's my era for wrestling - we were at the Field House together then!!

The moving thing - it was her first place on her own. Maybe she wanted her daddy to help for symbolic reasons. It sounds like they were really close. But the moving thing would open you to new people - how about a slimy, married landlord?

I don't know about Ross's "out of the area" and what that means. Too many questions.

Finally, if the bar/club is like other strip clubs I've been to, then it's probably fairly large and with different areas. VIP, bar, dancing area, maybe 2 stages, etc. Enough for Gabe to lose her, and comparably dark to other regular bars. But I think she left willingly - I think someone would have been more likely to see a struggle and god knows - she was a mom and would fight.

 

[cheko1]

That's my era for wrestling - we were at the Field House together then!!

The moving thing - it was her first place on her own. Maybe she wanted her daddy to help for symbolic reasons. It sounds like they were really close. But the moving thing would open you to new people - how about a slimy, married landlord?

I don't know about Ross's "out of the area" and what that means. Too many questions.

Finally, if the bar/club is like other strip clubs I've been to, then it's probably fairly large and with different areas. VIP, bar, dancing area, maybe 2 stages, etc. Enough for Gabe to lose her, and comparably dark to other regular bars. But I think she left willingly - I think someone would have been more likely to see a struggle and god knows - she was a mom and would fight.

May of even seen each other,who'd of thought?

Yes, the landlord is a possibility. Also could of been someone from Hardee's who watched her, wanted more then a sandwich. Working in the public isn't always a good thing. I'm sure she ran into many nut cases.

Ross might be getting the 3rd degree from LE now that she is dead. They'd of had a hard time holding him without any type of evidence, a good lawyer would of said she walked away. Now they have proof something happened to her.

Never gave it a thought about the dark strip clubs....your right on target.
I'm sure she never struggled with anyone inside the bar. Whatever happened to her was outside the bar. My thoughts are she knew whoever it was. She'd never go willingly with a stranger.

 

[Landon123]

I think we are often to quick to assume that these young women would never go off with a stranger. I know now how dangerous it is but when I was out at bars in college, I and most of my friends did it all the time.

It is a very real possibility. Family would have probably said the same thing about me, that i would never do that, but I did, often.

 

[TheresaO]

Let me just say its nice to see other idea's. The close friends Heather and Sam are my daughters. Deidre lived with one or both of them nearly three years. There are things kids don't tell their parents and for this I am thankful. But these three were close they shared everything and a married man would not have been a secret.

The two bars were not both strip clubs. The finish line is just a loud popular bar. The body shop where Deidre is reported to have gone is a strip club. It is also a small strip club the way I understand it one dancer at a time. (I may be wrong about this it is not first hand knowledge) Deidre's landlord was a woman and Deidre was one of the first to rent under the new management the few apts it held were not all occupied. The finish line is where Deidre split from Gabe there is no report anywhere that he lied when he said he did not go there. He did not know that is where she was going. There are several bars on that block. The police don't seem to be discussing an underage person as a suspect they are trying to get information and believe an underage person would be afraid to say they were there so may not feel free to give information. It is my understanding that the police have cleared Ross. Dont know how and may never know but feel the information is reliable. The reason Deidre asked her Dad for help is because she nor my girls had a truck or access to one. Deidre was a person who was just excited to have her own place that is why she wanted to move that day. Her impatience with her father was not unusual or suspicious.

Theresa

 

[Ang50]

I think we are often to quick to assume that these young women would never go off with a stranger. I know now how dangerous it is but when I was out at bars in college, I and most of my friends did it all the time.

It is a very real possibility. Family would have probably said the same thing about me, that i would never do that, but I did, often.

Yeah, Landon - I did too! This one time, in Florence, Italy... on a scooter with a boy I'd just met... to his apt... in a country where I didn't speak the language...

So I won't discount it, and Deidre is young, but she's also a mom. So I think in general it's less likely, that's all. And - a stranger that murders in WI Rapids is less likely than in NY, for instance. That's why I'm more inclined to believe someone she knew.

 

[Ang50]

Let me just say its nice to see other idea's. The close friends Heather and Sam are my daughters. Deidre lived with one or both of them nearly three years. There are things kids don't tell their parents and for this I am thankful. But these three were close they shared everything and a married man would not have been a secret.

The two bars were not both strip clubs. The finish line is just a loud popular bar. The body shop where Deidre is reported to have gone is a strip club. It is also a small strip club the way I understand it one dancer at a time. (I may be wrong about this it is not first hand knowledge) Deidre's landlord was a woman and Deidre was one of the first to rent under the new management the few apts it held were not all occupied. The finish line is where Deidre split from Gabe there is no report anywhere that he lied when he said he did not go there. He did not know that is where she was going. There are several bars on that block. The police don't seem to be discussing an underage person as a suspect they are trying to get information and believe an underage person would be afraid to say they were there so may not feel free to give information. It is my understanding that the police have cleared Ross. Dont know how and may never know but feel the information is reliable. The reason Deidre asked her Dad for help is because she nor my girls had a truck or access to one. Deidre was a person who was just excited to have her own place that is why she wanted to move that day. Her impatience with her father was not unusual or suspicious.

Theresa

Thank you for all the information. This is great stuff, so perhaps it can lead to some other thoughts.

The Steve Huff article on line said the Finish Line was an "upscale strip club" -

**That night, she had hired a babysitter for her four-month-old daughter, Vegas, and, together with a close friend, a young man, she hit a two of her regular haunts, an upscale strip club called the Finish Line and later, a place across the street known as the Body Shop.**
http://www.crimelibrary.com/news/original/1106/2702_diedre_harm.html

But you are the local, so you would know. I thought it was odd that two strip clubs would be right next to each other.

So - from what you know, did Gabe know she was leaving the Finish Line when she said she was saying hi to a friend? Or did he just think she saw someone inside the bar?

Did Deidre have a boyfriend? Were Ross or Gabe recent ex-boyfriends? (those are the only guys we know) And the online boyfriend possibility?

Did police clear Ross after Deidre went missing or after her body was found?

I can understand the impatience to move, and the landlord possibility is probably out now.

We'll need some new thoughts - Theresa - if you don't mind sharing - what do you think? Do you think it was someone she knew or didn't know?

Another angle we sometimes pursue, especially if we think she wouldn't have gone with a stranger is a person in position of authority. Someone able to say "Please come with me..." quasi-law enforcement, like a bouncer, security guard or even a cop. They could separate her from her friends easily, and even offer a ride home.

I'm big on the ride home - I think it's key. If she had been separated from friends on a normal night, what would she have done? Walked? Taxied? Phoned a friend to pick her up?