Identified! WI - Delafield, WhtMale, UP7632, car stolen, lighter, Sep'77 - John Lindberg Scott

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
I can understand not wanting to foot the cost to obtain dna in this economy. I do wish they would attempt with the print card. They might get lucky with a match on the prints. My step dad is retired LE (66-86) and he sees no reason old print cards can't be added to current data bases. He said even if they are pretty bad it should still be possible.


They don't have the print card, that too was destroyed back in the early 80's. There is a notation in the paperwork that there was a print card made, but according to the detective the card doesn't exist.

I agree with you Cubby... it is so stupid that they aren't willing to exhume him to get a DNA sample (at least in hopes of a match) when all they have left of him are the two photos that haven't exactly worked to date... :banghead:
 
masnitram, Was the print card destroyed, or was it of such poor quality LE did not believe it could be transfered into any database with success? I seem to recall a print card of poor quality existed but perhaps that was a question rather than a fact.
 
If they have no dentals, no print card and no DNA how the heck would they make an official ID even if they HAD a strong possible match? good grief!

I'm slowly seeing MSM articles in smaller municipalities that are receiving grants to spend more funds on cold cases. The next time you have contact with the detective handling this UID's case you might want to ask about any possibly grants for additional funds on this case in the forseeable future.

(another UID case had an update 07/07/11 regarding a grant to get DNA for some cold cases. )
 
If they have no dentals, no print card and no DNA how the heck would they make an official ID even if they HAD a strong possible match? good grief!

I'm slowly seeing MSM articles in smaller municipalities that are receiving grants to spend more funds on cold cases. The next time you have contact with the detective handling this UID's case you might want to ask about any possibly grants for additional funds on this case in the forseeable future.

(another UID case had an update 07/07/11 regarding a grant to get DNA for some cold cases. )

I will do that for sure...I did post a longer rant, but for whatever reason it did not post, but you did sum up my frustrations to a "t"...minus a few choice words that may be better left unsaid regarding how this case was handled.

I feel that we're the only people actually trying to have this guy identified, and many many others. It would be too easy to place blame, so I'll leave that alone.. :twocents:
 
I am sure it's not just me that is reading your work on this case. :) Much appreciated...thank you.
 
The only other listed possibility I can find for this JD is Ronald Owen Kimble from King County, Washington. https://www.findthemissing.org/cases/7130/33/

I submitted an inquiry to King County to find out more about Mr. Kimble and if there is a photo available. Everything matches up, but again the info is very limited. I'll update accordingly when I get a reply. Mr. Kimble isn't listed on the King County website at all, in fact Namus is the only site that I can find any info about him...http://www.kingcounty.gov/safety/sheriff/Contact/TIPS/Missing.aspx

Height 69.0 inches
Weight 150.0 pounds
Brown/Red Hair
Brown Eyes
Age: 24 when he disappeared
Circumstances: Schizophrenic and homeless. Moved frequently about the country
 
During the same time frame, the Milwaukee chapter of "The Outlaws" motorcycle group had a chop shop operation in Sussex, Wisconsin. Ironically you can exit on Golf Rd off of I-94(like our JD) to get to Sussex rather easily. I noticed that the guy on City-Data eluded to a possible accomplice. Here is an article about the disappearance of Cliff Machan who was involved with the Sussex operation (there are other articles about Cliff Machan available) The reason I bring this up is that I talked about a possible connection between the chop-shop and our JD during my conversation with the Waukesha detective. He said is was highly unlikely, but not impossible.

In addition to Cliff Machan, there was another Outlaws affiliate named Joe Stoll who disappeared who has yet...according to anything I can find...been found. Cliff hasn't been positively ID'd but is assumed to be recovered (see the article and link). From my notes, they won't ID him until they get DNA confirmation.

The assumed "Cliff Machan" can be found here https://identifyus.org/cases/7698

Article: http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=WboaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=dUUEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4904,6191554&dq=sussex+clifford-machan&hl=en



I started a thread at City-Data for Delafield John Doe with the hopes someone who remembers him might recognize him.

CarlK, I hope you don't mind I used your recon at the following link rather than adding the morgue photo's as I don't know if they are allowed at CD. Thanks!

http://www.city-data.com/forum/peop...tified-male-sept-1977-might.html#post21110745
 
During the same time frame, the Milwaukee chapter of "The Outlaws" motorcycle group had a chop shop operation in Sussex, Wisconsin. Ironically you can exit on Golf Rd off of I-94(like our JD) to get to Sussex rather easily. I noticed that the guy on City-Data eluded to a possible accomplice. Here is an article about the disappearance of Cliff Machan who was involved with the Sussex operation (there are other articles about Cliff Machan available) The reason I bring this up is that I talked about a possible connection between the chop-shop and our JD during my conversation with the Waukesha detective. He said is was highly unlikely, but not impossible.

In addition to Cliff Machan, there was another Outlaws affiliate named Joe Stoll who disappeared who has yet...according to anything I can find...been found. Cliff hasn't been positively ID'd but is assumed to be recovered (see the article and link). From my notes, they won't ID him until they get DNA confirmation.

The assumed "Cliff Machan" can be found here https://identifyus.org/cases/7698

Article: http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=WboaAAAAIBAJ&sjid=dUUEAAAAIBAJ&pg=4904,6191554&dq=sussex+clifford-machan&hl=en

That's good lead. I'm still thinking Delafield JD might be link to Outlaws club as he have scars on his hand & knee and lose some upper teeth from gang brawl. It's too bad as William Cresca didn't tell them what he know about this UID JD before he was deceased. Maybe he and the Outlaw crew didn't want them to know about their illegal activities prior to JD death and remain silent. They don't care about him anymore and never reports anyone (coroner, his family or whomever wonder about him).
 
Out of over 100 emails sent I've received three replies so far on Classmates/Memory Lane from local women named Lauri who graduated from Wisconsin/Illinois high schools between 1967-1979. One sought out our John's photo(on her own...I didn't send any photos for obvious reasons) and didn't recognize him, and the other two claimed they didn't know him nor purchased a zippo lighter for a "John".

Class of 1973- Wauwatosa West High School (Wauwatosa,WI)
Class of 1971- Dixon High School (Dixon, IL)
Class of 1978- Antioch Community High School (Antioch, IL)

*an interesting find is attached. I've tried to follow up with the Waukesha County Medical Examiners office regarding the funding for exhuming our JD and others in Prairie View Cemetery. I found an article online that states they DO have the approval to do so, and have had it for quite sometime. Why aren't they doing anything?? (See the attachment)
 

Attachments

Masnitram PM'd me to call my attention to a photo of Ronald Owen Kimball, whom he found in the 1971 Shoreline HS yearbook.

2763731270045078242S425x425Q851_zpsc40f617d.jpg


His "No-photo" NamUs casefile is here.
https://www.findthemissing.org/en/cases/7130/0/

My first reaction was that this is definitely not our guy, but I zoomed up the photo and compared it side-by side with our John Doe.

2763731270045078242S425x425Q851_zpsc40f617d.jpg
1b8008aa-e05f-4943-bf35-a443c14db284.jpg



My second thought is maybe.

This HS photo was taken six years before his disappearance, so you need to compare the John Doe to what he would look like at age 24, not 18. I wish the photo was a little more clear so I could compare freckles (though they could have developed between 18 and 24).
 
I don't know if it's a shadow on Kimble's nose, but that struck me as way off when I first found the photo compared to the JD. I see a resemblance in the eyebrows, eyes, and the deceptive chin. What I mean by "deceptive" is I can't tell if either the John Doe or Kimble have a scar, dent, dimple, etc on the chin....but there is "something" in/on both of them.

For the mother-of-all longshots I-94 does intersect with 1-90 which you can take all the way to Washington State....
 
I don't know if it's a shadow on Kimble's nose, but that struck me as way off when I first found the photo compared to the JD. I see a resemblance in the eyebrows, eyes, and the deceptive chin. What I mean by "deceptive" is I can't tell if either the John Doe or Kimble have a scar, dent, dimple, etc on the chin....but there is "something" in/on both of them.

For the mother-of-all longshots I-94 does intersect with 1-90 which you can take all the way to Washington State....


I agree. I too was thrown off by the nose. However the photo's we have available aren't the highest quality, so I couldn't say for sure either way.

masnitram, when was the last time you spoke with the WCME?
Since our Delafield Doe fits into the timeframe of the Gacy victims, perhaps his family submitted DNA through Cook... Maybe a call to the WCME asking about the status of the funding info you linked, along with knowing Cook has collected from families might be enough to push this along a bit through the ME's office.

Hope that makes sense. Am kind of sleep posting here.

This is one case I would love to see solved and seems solvable.
 
I agree. I too was thrown off by the nose. However the photo's we have available aren't the highest quality, so I couldn't say for sure either way.

masnitram, when was the last time you spoke with the WCME?
Since our Delafield Doe fits into the timeframe of the Gacy victims, perhaps his family submitted DNA through Cook... Maybe a call to the WCME asking about the status of the funding info you linked, along with knowing Cook has collected from families might be enough to push this along a bit through the ME's office.

Hope that makes sense. Am kind of sleep posting here.

This is one case I would love to see solved and seems solvable.

Hi Cubby! I honestly haven't spoken to anyone there in quite sometime. I did just fire off an email with the PDF file regarding the funding to the detective in Waukesha I spoke to quite sometime ago. I did include info about the recent re-visitation of the Gacy case etc. If he doesn't reply I'll try my Chicago PD contact and then Cook County.
 
I received a short email reply from the detective in Waukesha County this morning stating that he will look into it. I'll keep you posted.
 
Small update on Namus https://identifyus.org/cases/7632

"Subject had a removable denture replacing his upper front teeth."

We may never know how many upper front teeth but at least someone in Waukesha is still reviewing his case file.

I plan on reaching out again to the detective in charge about updates on the DNA funding in the near future...
 
Searching for something to read on this site, I bumped onto this...real pleasing to read this as an old car nut.

prescriptive on a car nut specializing in old cars...

Keys:

They did not indicate what type of keys he had on him upon discovery, but if they are all automobile keys, then it's most likely a car thief of any caliber. If not, he probably acquired them along with the clothes and library books.

Car keys then were ridiculously simple. They only have about five cuts for almost all makes. Ridges rarely were deep. You have about 20% chance of having your key work in another car's locks (as long as the makes were same, i.e. Ford/GM/Mopar). Similar cuts from the ridges could work with some fine jiggling. My father's old keys to his Chevy worked on my neighbor's Caddy. What small-time car thieves at the time would do is to go to a junkyard and take all the keys they come across then try key after key until one works. They also can file down a blank key just a little and jiggle/bump.

I agree it was an unexpected opportunity when he saw that '62 Catalina. By the '70s, cars were coming with new security/safety features. Door locks, locking steering wheels, ignition cylinders relocated to steering column, locking transmission shift lever, etc. That added time. The thief could have been intimidated by all this and decided to case for an old car (easy target).

If the Catalina had a manual transmission, he knew he found the jackpot. Laughingly easy to steal one of those things - push the car out, hop in, and start it in gear as it's rolling down. You didn't need anything (no keys, no tools, nothing) to grab it. A manual was much better to push-start than auto in these days.

After reading the reports, the owner stated he woke up in the morning to find his car gone. I don't know the circumstances, but wouldn't he hear his own car starting up and driving away? I suspect that's exactly what I thought happened.

In one of the reports, an officer tagged the john because the headlights were dim. The dim headlights tell me the car was running off the battery as the generator/alternator wasn't keeping the battery replenished. He had to be driving a good while when the officer attempted to pull him over. This is telling - the john stole the car without using a key. If the ignition was used, the ignition would be in RUN position. The corresponding wiring from being in the RUN position would enable the generator/alternator to charge the battery, keeping the headlights bright.

All this behavior indicated the john needs to be somewhere, fast. I think he was on the lam.
 
Searching for something to read on this site, I bumped onto this...real pleasing to read this as an old car nut.

prescriptive on a car nut specializing in old cars...

Keys:

They did not indicate what type of keys he had on him upon discovery, but if they are all automobile keys, then it's most likely a car thief of any caliber. If not, he probably acquired them along with the clothes and library books.

Car keys then were ridiculously simple. They only have about five cuts for almost all makes. Ridges rarely were deep. You have about 20% chance of having your key work in another car's locks (as long as the makes were same, i.e. Ford/GM/Mopar). Similar cuts from the ridges could work with some fine jiggling. My father's old keys to his Chevy worked on my neighbor's Caddy. What small-time car thieves at the time would do is to go to a junkyard and take all the keys they come across then try key after key until one works. They also can file down a blank key just a little and jiggle/bump.

I agree it was an unexpected opportunity when he saw that '62 Catalina. By the '70s, cars were coming with new security/safety features. Door locks, locking steering wheels, ignition cylinders relocated to steering column, locking transmission shift lever, etc. That added time. The thief could have been intimidated by all this and decided to case for an old car (easy target).

If the Catalina had a manual transmission, he knew he found the jackpot. Laughingly easy to steal one of those things - push the car out, hop in, and start it in gear as it's rolling down. You didn't need anything (no keys, no tools, nothing) to grab it. A manual was much better to push-start than auto in these days.

After reading the reports, the owner stated he woke up in the morning to find his car gone. I don't know the circumstances, but wouldn't he hear his own car starting up and driving away? I suspect that's exactly what I thought happened.

In one of the reports, an officer tagged the john because the headlights were dim. The dim headlights tell me the car was running off the battery as the generator/alternator wasn't keeping the battery replenished. He had to be driving a good while when the officer attempted to pull him over. This is telling - the john stole the car without using a key. If the ignition was used, the ignition would be in RUN position. The corresponding wiring from being in the RUN position would enable the generator/alternator to charge the battery, keeping the headlights bright.

All this behavior indicated the john needs to be somewhere, fast. I think he was on the lam.

Wow, thanks for the insight Nikon! So lets say he did push start the Catalina knowing he would only be utilizing the battery for power. I assume then "John" would know that he could only go so far before the car stalled out completely. Would it be plausible that Wisconsin...more specifically near the point of the crash...would be his probable destination? Unless his plan was to get as far away from Gurnee, IL on battery power and steal another auto wherever he ended up. I know it's just speculative....
 
Keys:
Car keys then were ridiculously simple. They only have about five cuts for almost all makes. Ridges rarely were deep. You have about 20% chance of having your key work in another car's locks (as long as the makes were same, i.e. Ford/GM/Mopar). Similar cuts from the ridges could work with some fine jiggling. My father's old keys to his Chevy worked on my neighbor's Caddy. What small-time car thieves at the time would do is to go to a junkyard and take all the keys they come across then try key after key until one works. They also can file down a blank key just a little and jiggle/bump.

It worked for me when I was teens by start the golf cart nearby High School lots with my own key sets (probably using lock key) and I ended up wild joyride with my friend. I did it for more few times before someone caught us. That's wonderful memory of my youth time.
 

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