Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #37

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Quick question... with all the suspected planning that JP did, why did he end up in a situation where he had to kill 2 people?
BBM
JTP didn't end up in any situation having to do anything. He chose to put himself at the Closs home, murder her parents and abduct Jayme. Who can even begin to under his reasoning....it doesn't exist IMO.
 
Sorry for this post, working a gimpy keyboard.

1) Petty crimes, yes, but count me among those stunned this was his first serious crime.
2) The "how did he interact with her" -- definitely the million dollar question. Does seem like SM dropping in percentages. Just very odd.
3) Tying to other crimes. Groene was essentially a fully mature sociopath killer and I don't think this was spontaneous. The Petit case maybe closer but again more mature perp, very spontaneous, very psychotic. Short? Maybe closest but I'm not sure there's an analogue out there.
4) I would guess the planning was more than a week but this case is full of surprises.
5) If there is a SM angle it'll be indirect -- say via a friend showing something to him.
6) A lot of focus on JC's dancing -- what about the XCountry running?
7) Is there a book popular amongst his age group or apparent mindset with a kidnapping scenario like this?

When you mentioned books it made me think of the murderer Scott Dyleski.

It will be interesting to see if he had any books in his home or on some type of electronic device etc. and the subject matter he desired to read most.

When 16 year old Scott Dyleski murdered Pam Vitale by bludgeoning her 39 times murdering her in cold blood they found several books about serial killers which he thought of as heroes and role models.

He had never even met or talked with Pamela before her brutal murder. His goal was to murder someone and she became his target. She lived high up on a hill in a lovely home and he lived down in the valley.

Yet out of the blue he stealthily made his way to her home. He had been watching their home by hiding in the woods and knew her husband had left for work.

His murder was brutal of a woman he had never known yet he was popular in his high school and quite intelligent.

It just shows no one really knows what is in the mind of others or what they may be plotting and planning and then carrying it out without any warning. In fact it was learned Pam's husband had been gracious enough to do free pro bono work for Dyleski's..mother. yet this is how he repaid the kindness shown to his family.

Some of the most brutal murders/rapes.. even gang rapes against their abducted victims I've read about have been carried out by young people. Some weren't even in their teens yet.

What has stuck with me the most is their flat affect when caught and most all showed no remorse and some have been interviewed years later and they still have no remorse or regret for the horrible violence they have inflicted on totally innocent victims.

I wouldnt be surprised if JP exhibits no emotions and has a flat affect tomorrow for many of these kind of young criminals never do show remorse for they arent remorseful.

The only emotions they may show will only be for themselves knowing they have been caught and their violence will not be able to continue.

The books I've read about young killers and other violent acts they have done and what they were/are capable of doing to others haunts me to this day.

Imo
 
BBM
JTP didn't end up in any situation having to do anything. He chose to put himself at the Closs home, murder her parents and abduct Jayme. Who can even begin to under his reasoning....it doesn't exist IMO.
Well it exists, this all made sense to him.

This was both purposeful, and evil.

He made the decision to do commit this crime, and do it in this particular way.

This was his choice, and his choice alone. Fortunately, he will pay the price for it.
 
I have to agree that it is unusual regarding child abduction cases, however when you say it was completely unnecessary I do not agree simply because we do not at this point understand his mindset and it was his crime. If he saw the parents as his biggest obstacle then yes, he had to (and I think planned) to eliminate them. I do not think there is anything forgiving or nice about this guy. I do not think he planned this crime with minimizing damage/death in anyway. He knew what he wanted, Jayme, and that was it - regardless of any collateral damage.

That is the missing piece. Why did he choose Jayme?

Other questions are why did he decide on a shotgun to shoot in the door instead of a less brazen abduction? Did he plan to kill the parents from the start? Was he wearing gloves?

All in all, I don’t think he had a feasible long term plan, so it’s a good thing Jayme got away when she did.
 
I’m not saying that it was unneccesary to him, just that it was unnecessary in the commission of an abduction in the first place.

I agree that there were options as to how he wanted to execute Jayme's abduction and so yes he could have chosen other means such as snatching her off the street or luring her somewhere but he did not. He showed up at the wee hours of the morning in a very rural location at the home of a family sleeping for the night. By doing so he minimized the risks associated with luring or snatching in broad daylight in the presence of potential witnesses, a situation that would have presented high exposure and risk to himself. I do not disagree with you but I am trying to gauge what HE did and why with regard to Jayme's capture. Sorry if I am not fully understanding your post. I agree but also to a degree disagree.
 
That is the missing piece. Why did he choose Jayme?

Other questions are why did he decide on a shotgun to shoot in the door instead of a less brazen abduction? Did he plan to kill the parents from the start? Was he wearing gloves?

All in all, I don’t think he had a feasible long term plan, so it’s a good thing Jayme got away when she did.
Fortunately, I do think we will get some of these answers.

He’s alive to talk (if he chooses), Jayme might be able to fill in some gaps, and there may be evidence that is recovered that also sheds some light on this.

I have little doubt that had Jayme not escaped, she would have met the same fate as her parents.

Then this guy would eventually do this again.

Her escape not only saved her life, but may have also saved the lives of others.
 
No, the Ks asked her if she was cold and she said no. They covered her with a blanket and told her she could take it off if she wanted, but she didn't take it off. The Ks said she looked cold. She also refused water and food.
I believe she was in complete shock honestly. Probably didn't feel anything but adrenaline. IMO
 
Fortunately, I do think we will get some of these answers.

He’s alive to talk (if he chooses), Jayme might be able to fill in some gaps, and there may be evidence that is recovered that also sheds some light on this.

I have little doubt that had Jayme not escaped, she would have met the same fate as her parents.

Then this guy would eventually do this again.

Her escape not only saved her life, but may have also saved the lives of others.

I think so, too. He planned a great abduction, but he doesn’t seem to have any understanding of the future in this venture. It makes me wonder about his dad closing the loan to the house and letting him live there by himself may have got JP thinking.

This is the oddest case. I can’t think of a precedent just like it.
 
That is the missing piece. Why did he choose Jayme?

Other questions are why did he decide on a shotgun to shoot in the door instead of a less brazen abduction? Did he plan to kill the parents from the start? Was he wearing gloves?

All in all, I don’t think he had a feasible long term plan, so it’s a good thing Jayme got away when she did.

I have to agree that "he" did not have a long term plan for Jayme based just on my gut. Why did he choose her?...I think that is impossible to answer at this point in time definitively but I speculate he was victim hunting and possibly stalking and for whatever reason he saw her as a "doable" or "easy" target, or perhaps he was attracted to her or saw weakness in her. Did he wear gloves, nothing has been suggested he did although he took measures such as shaving his head to prevent dna so very possibly. Why a shotgun, imo if you show up at the wee hours of the morn to kidnap a kid from her parents then why not blow down the door with a shotgun, a shotgun certainly could accomplish such success with little room for error. I don't really know, hopefully there will be more information that may assist in making sense of all of this.
 
I think so, too. He planned a great abduction, but he doesn’t seem to have any understanding of the future in this venture. It makes me wonder about his dad closing the loan to the house and letting him live there by himself may have got JP thinking.

This is the oddest case. I can’t think of a precedent just like it.
There really isn’t much precedent, that’s partially why this case garnered so much attention.

No one attacks a home in the middle of night, kills two parents, and kidnaps an innocent girl.

Not in a rural area like this, and not with the victimology here.

This was baffling at the time.
 
I highly disagree. This type of crime almost never happens, and one event does not a trend make.

Mass shootings are different, and they are certainly self-perpetuating.

I usually find myself wholeheartedly agreeing with you on just about every case we both follow.

But on this subject I respectfully disagree. We are seeing an uptick on home invasions being done by complete and total strangers with dastardly devastating results for all of the victims inside.

Some of the most recent cases discussed here have been some of the most gruesome overkills involving stranger intruders.

I do believe we will see many more cases where the suspect is a stranger to the victims. At one time people who entered homes made sure the residents weren't home but now it seems they know they are inside but no longer care and it results in tortures..rapes and even kidnappings. Many of these cases never received national attention yet they were very similar. Not every case will make the national news even though they were huge stories on local area news outlets.

Perhaps you dont watch ID as often as I do. I have been an ID and OWN addict for years since their inception.

This isnt as uncommon as you may think. The only rare difference in so many cases I've seen is Jayme was able to escape her kidnapper and tormentor while most kidnapped victims were later found murdered or their bodies have never been located.

Imoo it will continue to rise.

Imo
 
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None the less they are factors that are taken into consideration by the court for sentencing purposes.
True, but it won’t matter here.

Not with two murders, a kidnapping, and various other crimes.

Take into account all the mitigating factors you want, the choice will still be the same:

Life without parole, or life without parole.

His life will be over, as it should be.
 
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