Found Alive WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *Arrest* #37

[girlhasnoname]

For the poster who wondered about Mark Furman and what his take is on this case now here is a link to a good interview with him and his thoughts it's down to the second paragraph:

First person Jayme Closs found to help her had worked in child protective services

 

[Get off my Lawn!]

Reference a comment in the last thread about whether he was clever: "As for Jake Patterson, the superintendent of the different school district (Northwood) he once attended labeled him quiet and a good student in an interview with The Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, and said he was a member of the high school quiz bowl team." https://heavy.com/news/2019/01/jake-patterson/

For those of you who didn't catch WS'er @Moonsie's incredibly accurate profile of the perpetrator when it was first posted (less than two weeks after Jayme's abduction), here it is........

WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #14

- no drugs/alcohol...very fit (can kick in a door)
- loner, very little contact with anyone (why there are no people coming forward about a change in behavior etc)
- survivalist/minimalist (no problem living in the north woods)
- hunter (saw Jayme as his “prey,” planned the surprise nature of the attack)
- mapped this out over an extended time (stalked home, knew patterns, knew community, knew routines etc)
- worshipped Jayme from afar/no prior interaction with family (perhaps had initial chance sighting at school, running in park etc which grew into an obsession)
- technology averse (preferred cunning, wits, camouflage, hunting psychology etc instead of SM)
- unemployed/lots of time to study Closs home stealthily (may have stalked home unnoticed on multiple occasions)
- “bad” or no relationship with own parents (so no reservations whatsoever about killing parents of Jayme)
- not angry/focused and methodical

Spooky

 

[ilovepierre]

Does this mean he's not on FB, Insta, Finsta, Reddit, 4chan, etc... OR does it mean no IP address?? No cell number?

JMO and wondering

IMO, no social media presence.

 

[singlemom]

Actually the story says this; "The suspect has no apparent online presence."

That is so weird. I know I saw it somewhere. I thought that was it. Thanks for the correction.

 

[ilovechili]

So we have an older red car... I think the first I saw the car was on 48 hours last night...

 

[otto]

I believe she went out to the road and that's where Ms. Nutter was walking her dog.

The woman with the dog said that she came out of the woods, not down a driveway.

 

[PommyMommy]

Community of Barron welcoming Jayme Closs home
Business owners tell 5 EYEWITNESS NEWS encouragement in the form of signs will likely stay up for some time to spread the good news.

"We want her to feel comfortable and then after a while, she probably won't want the attention so it'll probably come down but it'll be up for a while because we're thrilled," Seelig said.

This is a story that has touched many across the country. If you'd like to send a card or well wishes to Jayme, a group set up a PO Box for the public. Send attention to Light the Way Home For Jayme Closs PO Box 539 Rice Lake, WI 54868.

 

[Julia966]

That is so weird. I know I saw it somewhere. I thought that was it. Thanks for the correction.

You may be thinking of JTP's family members. They have all removed their social media presence.

 

[bellyup]

Neither do I. Thank you.

This excuse seems to come up quite often when the suspect is simply evil. Perhaps a sociopath but I highly doubt he was abused.

Many who have done these kinda of heinous murders weren't abused. Many of them had been pampered with material things provided to them in excess.

Jmo

There seems to be some indication that it wasn’t a stable home growing up. <modsnip: rumors>

I’ve wondered if giving the boys the house and leaving wasn’t dads way of “making up” for a less than stellar childhood.

I don’t think it’s an excuse. The vast majority of those who commit horrible crimes like these were also victims themselves at one time. There’s substantial evidence to support hurt people ... hurt people. Looking at those connections is a big part of why I get involved in these cases.

We can’t stop them from happening if we don’t examine and acknowledge all the factors that contributed. Abusive childhood is often a key factor.

 

[otto]

For those of you who didn't catch WS'er @Moonsie's incredibly accurate profile of the perpetrator when it was first posted (less than two weeks after Jayme's abduction), here it is........

WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #14

- no drugs/alcohol...very fit (can kick in a door)
- loner, very little contact with anyone (why there are no people coming forward about a change in behavior etc)
- survivalist/minimalist (no problem living in the north woods)
- hunter (saw Jayme as his “prey,” planned the surprise nature of the attack)
- mapped this out over an extended time (stalked home, knew patterns, knew community, knew routines etc)
- worshipped Jayme from afar/no prior interaction with family (perhaps had initial chance sighting at school, running in park etc which grew into an obsession)
- technology averse (preferred cunning, wits, camouflage, hunting psychology etc instead of SM)
- unemployed/lots of time to study Closs home stealthily (may have stalked home unnoticed on multiple occasions)
- “bad” or no relationship with own parents (so no reservations whatsoever about killing parents of Jayme)
- not angry/focused and methodical

This comment has been referenced many times in the last two days, but is the profile accurate?

• Regarding kicking in the door, wan't the door shot?
• We don't know anything about drugs and alcohol use. His brother has drug related offenses so he may have drug use history - too soon to say "no drug/alcohol" abuse.
• Regarding being a "loner," we know that he lived alone, but according to recent reports, his friends visited and Jayme was hidden. There are mixed reports about whether people were "coming and going" from the property, or whether it was so quiet that no one knew he was there
• He lived in a vacation community, but he did not live in a vacation home. He lived in the area year round and does not appear to be a survivalist or minimalist.
• He has a gun, may have hunting experience, but there's nothing to support that he is a hunter at this time.
• He very likely watched Jayme prior to her abduction, but we don't know if that was a day, a week or a month, so it's impossible to know whether he mapped this out over an extended period of time.
• I kind of doubt he "worshipped" her. I think it's more likely he wanted to possess her in the way that people want to possess a car.
• Regarding "technology averse", I'm inclined to think that his brazen attack might have been normalized by violent gaming (per Massguy)
• He is unemployed
• His relationship with parents may have been one of neglect rather than "bad." His parents provided him a home and left him alone. That may be what he wanted.

 

[Ibiz]

For those of you who didn't catch WS'er @Moonsie's incredibly accurate profile of the perpetrator when it was first posted (less than two weeks after Jayme's abduction), here it is........

WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #14

- no drugs/alcohol...very fit (can kick in a door)
- loner, very little contact with anyone (why there are no people coming forward about a change in behavior etc)
- survivalist/minimalist (no problem living in the north woods)
- hunter (saw Jayme as his “prey,” planned the surprise nature of the attack)
- mapped this out over an extended time (stalked home, knew patterns, knew community, knew routines etc)
- worshipped Jayme from afar/no prior interaction with family (perhaps had initial chance sighting at school, running in park etc which grew into an obsession)
- technology averse (preferred cunning, wits, camouflage, hunting psychology etc instead of SM)
- unemployed/lots of time to study Closs home stealthily (may have stalked home unnoticed on multiple occasions)
- “bad” or no relationship with own parents (so no reservations whatsoever about killing parents of Jayme)
- not angry/focused and methodical

That was a good post, but it was pretty much what was hashed out in the first few threads. That was thread #14.

 

[otto]

That is so weird. I know I saw it somewhere. I thought that was it. Thanks for the correction.

It could be as simple as going to great lengths to hide his personal information.

 

[Warwick7]

That was the most fake testimonies I've ever heard.

As a sex abuse survivor for many years myself it made me want to barf at how disengenous it was. To really know about being sexually abused unfortunately you have to live it. They never had and that is why the testimony was so ridiculous.

I think JP may be another entitlement suspect we are seeing more of now.

Why wouldnt he feel entitled to have what he wanted?

Here he is at 21 with a home provided for him. I imagine it will become know his dad paid other living expenses as well plus providing him with vehicles.

His dad probably knew if he didnt provide a roof over his head he would be homeless because from what we have seen he sure didnt believe in getting a job or going to college and providing his own way.

I bet they will find a lot of unnecessary material things though that just let him idle away his time doing nothing productive.

Jmo

What a good post!!!

 

[Tim Constas]

So we have an older red car... I think the first I saw the car was on 48 hours last night...

You are correct. Someone posted a link a not too long ago.

 

[Get off my Lawn!]

You may be thinking of JTP's family members. They have all removed their social media presence.

LE will be looking at their social media anyway.

 

[Oakland CA]

This comment has been referenced many times in the last two days, but is the profile accurate?

In my opinion (and by the number of times others have liked it) ...very accurate.

 

[whatsherface]

This comment has been referenced many times in the last two days, but is the profile accurate?

• Regarding kicking in the door, wan't the door shot?
• We don't know anything about drugs and alcohol use. His brother has drug related offenses so he may have drug use history - too soon to say "no drug/alcohol" abuse.
• Regarding being a "loner," we know that he lived alone, but according to recent reports, his friends visited and Jayme was hidden. There are mixed reports about whether people were "coming and going" from the property, or whether it was so quiet that no one knew he was there
• He lived in a vacation community, but he did not live in a vacation home. He lived in the area year round and does not appear to be a survivalist or minimalist.
• He has a gun, may have hunting experience, but there's nothing to support that he is a hunter at this time.
• He very likely watched Jayme prior to her abduction, but we don't know if that was a day, a week or a month, so it's impossible to know whether he mapped this out over an extended period of time.
• I kind of doubt he "worshipped" her. I think it's more likely he wanted to possess her in the way that people want to possess a car.
• Regarding "technology averse", I'm inclined to think that his brazen attack might have been normalized by violent gaming (per Massguy)
• He is unemployed
• His relationship with parents may have been one of neglect rather than "bad." His parents provided him a home and left him alone. That may be what he wanted.

good yes, and you’re right.

 

[Rubiconbob]

There seems to be some indication that it wasn’t a stable home growing up. <modsnip: rumors>

I’ve wondered if giving the boys the house and leaving wasn’t dads way of “making up” for a less than stellar childhood.

I don’t think it’s an excuse. The vast majority of those who commit horrible crimes like these were also victims themselves at one time. There’s substantial evidence to support hurt people ... hurt people. Looking at those connections is a big part of why I get involved in these cases.

We can’t stop them from happening if we don’t examine and acknowledge all the factors that contributed. Abusive childhood is often a key factor.

First thought would be what was first 3 yrs like for perp... was he born with drug addict parents and ended up with Patterson through adoption / foster care ..if there’s no stimulus in that first development u can spend 20 yrs trying to fix a broken person..

Giving kids free reign over any house longer than 1 nite is recipe for disaster... most of us would be in jail or in serious trouble within a year..or maybe just me 12 to 17 woulda been trouble...

It almost appears like 3 people didn’t love each other , had 3 kids to fix it.... it didn’t fix anything and they didn’t want the kids and divorced..

You’d think there’d be parents fighting to keep kids... this appears like they wanted to give them back... either that or there hiding all the family gatherings and happy trips to water parks.

 

[ilovechili]

That was the most fake testimonies I've ever heard.

As a sex abuse survivor for many years myself it made me want to barf at how disengenous it was. To really know about being sexually abused unfortunately you have to live it. They never had and that is why the testimony was so ridiculous.

I think JP may be another entitlement suspect we are seeing more of now.

Why wouldnt he feel entitled to have what he wanted?

Here he is at 21 with a home provided for him. I imagine it will become know his dad paid other living expenses as well plus providing him with vehicles.

His dad probably knew if he didnt provide a roof over his head he would be homeless because from what we have seen he sure didnt believe in getting a job or going to college and providing his own way.

I bet they will find a lot of unnecessary material things though that just let him idle away his time doing nothing productive.

Jmo

I agree. I know we have no way of knowing for sure and I try so hard not to judge but with the Menendez boys I have never seen faker. As you say, anyone that has been through anything difficult in life it shows. And I do not even mean they were ignored to where they had no emotions. Those "boys" were entitled and had no feeling nor care for their parents, just a thought of what they could have and get. I did find one seemingly more evil than the other although both were complicit.

I hate to judge the parents of this Patterson because we have yet to see a lot. And even entitlement and being given everything does not necessarily mean you would go kill two parents in cold blood. Something is still wrong beyond and above it seems. I guess what I mean is I know entitled kids who are 30 going on 40 still being helped out or "entitled" but they would not kill.

I would have to guess there is a combination of things.

But it would be merely speculation.

If we can trust media accounts, he seemed to care less about her wellbeing but he appeared clean, etc. and still clean shaven, etc. and not starving.

I hope to know the how and why but more so that others can protect themselves and it can be learned how, if any way, people can proactively protect themselves or their children from these ______s.

 

[ArizonaNative]

What is the scientific basis for this (NO conscience, NO empathy can also develop after traumatic events)? Thousands upon thousands of people endure traumatic events yet retain their conscience and empathy. Please clarify.

Experts do not always agree but there is plenty of reaserch that can be found between the relationship between violent crimes and past abuse, neglect, traumatic events that have caused a person to lose the ability to feel empathy for others. There are many factors involved, just like not all people that play violent video games commit violent crimes.

Horrific crimes like this can never be excused. However, it has been an effective defense in a court case because you can find experts for both sides that will testify that a defendant’s past lead to a person losing their ability to feel for others and another that will testify that there is no evidence to support that defense.