AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #11

[jess_march]

If they find DNA at the scene that isn’t in the database I wonder if they’d consider trying for a genealogical match via databases such as ancestry? I know they’ve used such databases over the past several months to solve various cold cases... just an idea.

I've wondered about this too. And I realize LE won't tell us but I would like to know if any DNA or prints were found at all. If yes, then we're dealing with an unknown or unlisted criminal but maybe there's hope for a match if/when they have a suspect. But if no DNA or prints were found, that would potentially rule out the personal/crime of passion theory. If gloves were worn, for example, it would suggest to me that this crime was planned and calculated.

 

[jess_march]

Apologies if I missed a discussion about this but I am wondering what you all think about it taking one full week for the car information to come out? I assume they checked all the nearby cameras within a day or two. Presumably local DMV checks were done too. Do you think it took a full week to ID 2 cars in on local cameras? Or is it more likely that they "found" these cars due to credible tips? Just curious.

 

[thesaint]

This puzzles me.
The reward was there yesterday, but gone tonight.
But now that I think about it, is it common for the FBI to offer rewards? I always thought they were privately funded, but admit I do not know much about where reward money comes from. At any rate, the offer is not on the FBI website right now. I wonder what’s up with that.

Yeah, rewards are typically coordinated with the local Crime Stoppers; they have the infrastructure in place to publicize rewards, take in tips and pay out rewards.

 

[not.a.muggle]

I see people commenting about a large black suitcase and speculating that Jayme might have been being expected to pack it and leave with the killer(s.) I haven't read anything about a suitcase... was LE removing it from the home as evidence? At any rate, if those speculating Jayme was expected to leave with a packed suitcase are correct, then that is a very good sign. I doubt anyone tries to have someone pack a suitcase while also planning to kill them. People pack suitcases when they are changing locations. Maybe this is one reason LE feels that Jayme is still alive. She doesn't have the suitcase with her but the original plan of taking her from the home took place as planned. (My apologies if I have misinterpreted the significance of the suitcase. It has been brought up but not in a way which explains it's context in the case.) There are several earlier threads I have not read yet.

The suitcase belonged to the medical examiner

 

[whatsherface]

The suitcase belonged to the medical examiner

Thanks!

 

[Barlow]

I’m sorry if this has been asked, but I’m trying to keep up as best as I can. Why is Denise’s brother on this report/call log?: http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/barron+county+call+log.pdf
I haven’t seen an explanation yet, I’m sorry if I’ve missed it.

 

[Inthedetails]

delete

 

[thesaint]

Do you think it took a full week to ID 2 cars in on local cameras? Or is it more likely that they "found" these cars due to credible tips? Just curious.

My guess is LE had the cars earlier in the week, worked the leads locally, came up empty and decided to loop in the public to expand/crowd-source the search. But that's 100% a guess.

 

[MassGuy]

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think allowing the familial DNA - checking DNA databases for possible relatives of the perp - differs state by state. Anyone up on their knowledge of this? Does Wisconsin do this?

jmo

Wisconsin is one of 12 states that not only allow it, but have solved cases this way.

 

[photographer4]

If the case went cold, many months from now, they might consider that. 60 minutes had a great segment on that technology last night. It’s led to 12 cold cases being solved so far, to include Golden State.

Thats great but why must they wait for it to grow cold? There’s a little girl missing - the genealogy databases, I don’t think warrants are required for LE to use them (yet). So why wait if it could potentially help lead police to the killer(s)?

 

[MassGuy]

Thats great but why must they wait for it to grow cold? There’s a little girl missing - the genealogy databases, I don’t think warrants are required for LE to use them (yet). So why wait if it could potentially help lead police to the killer(s)?

My response was in regards to using genealogy research. Wisconsin allows their criminal databases to be analyzed for familial matches, so that’s one possibility that they could use here, and do so right away.

Edit*

Going the genealogy route is expensive, and takes quite a bit of time to get a result. For whatever reason, it has only been used on cases that are a couple of years, or more, old.

It’s new, and will likely expand rapidly in the coming years. That is, if the courts don’t inhibit it’s use.

 

[RoiPD86]

I’m only posting so we can go over this Radar story and see what can be supported by evidence or corroborated. I read it and it smells a bit of sensationalism. Delete if need be. Jayme Closs Case Break: Police Receive Chilling Tip Conversation With Strange Man

 

[DexterMorgan]

The suitcase belonged to the medical examiner

Im gonna need a link for that my good friend.

Just kidding. Thanks for reminding them of that.

 

[otto]

I don't know what was in Denise's head, but in the same situation I would most likely have tried to hide and call 911, because that would be our best chance of surviving. I'm not a large person or a strong one. I'm not trained in martial arts or firearms. If there's a person with a gun attacking, I'm not going to tackle them one on one and take the gun away.

Okay, so you're not going to take away the gun, but are you going to go straight to your daughter and protect her?

 

[mama sleuth]

New commenting here but have followed from day 1. So praying for JC to come home safely!
My theory is that home was entered in a random act (or wrong house) and DC & JC happened to be home.
Based on the car locations after the police arrived I think dad (JC) arrived after the fact, realized something was wrong (different car in the driveway) and 1st door closest to saving his family was the front door which HE kicked it in. We don't know anything else that happened inside the home. To me, the only reason to take Jayme is that she may have put up a fight and had DNA evidence so they couldn't leave her behind.

 

[thesaint]

I’m only posting so we can go over this Radar story and see what can be supported by evidence or corroborated. I read it and it smells a bit of sensationalism. Delete if need be. Jayme Closs Case Break: Police Receive Chilling Tip Conversation With Strange Man

RadarOnline reports call to mind the Christopher Waltz character's quote in Inglourious Basterds: "I love rumors! Facts can be so misleading, but rumors, true or false, are often revealing."

 

[pepper 34]

The suitcase belonged to the medical examiner

Thank you for that information. That blows the first part of my comment right out of the water. Next time I have a question I'll ask, "Can someone tell me what's the significance of the big black suitcase?" ... or whatever and save everyone the trouble.

 

[MsMarple]

Some food for thought: This is not directed at any one poster, but I see a lot of our theories (some of mine included) are being based heavily on the number of minutes we think occurred between when the neighbor reported hearing two gunshots and when the 911 call was made.

A few issues I see with basing our theories on this time gap:

1. The sheriff has never verified the time the gunshots were reportedly heard (or even mentioned that witnesses heard gunshots). He has said, however, if it didn't come from his podium it is not credible information.

2. The neighbor has contradicted herself on almost every detail except for the number of gunshots-- Was the first one louder or the second? Was she asleep or awake? Did she know they had a child or not? Etc, etc. She may be well-intentioned in reporting it but may still have a faulty memory or be off on the timing, could have read the clock wrong or been overtired at the time. She didn't know she would need to recall the time of hearing gunshots until the next day when the FBI surprised her by coming to her house. Witnesses often get things like this wrong because they had no reason to remember an event or note when it happened.

3. Even if the neighbors' given time of two gunshots heard is accurate, we do not know if that was the beginning of the confrontation, the middle or the end. Even I have made theories based on this and speculated that maybe it took more time than planned to get inside, trying to account for the gap. But that doesn't mean that is how it happened or that they were the first shots at 12:31.

What if we removed those "2 shots heard at 12:31" from the equation? Would our theories change drastically? We are trying to explain a time gap and what could have happened during that gap as if it is a settled fact. That 20 something minute gap may or may not have occurred as reported to us. JMO. Some things I'm thinking about as we rehash what we know and don't know....

(PS: The way Websleuths is acting up for me tonight I may not be able to reply to any replies)

I was disappointed to see the neighbors giving yet another interview in the DM. It really is time to stop or it could create a problem down the road if the case is solved and someone goes to trial IMO.

It wouldn't surprise me if they had the wrong time. I think only JS looked at the clock and IMO it's possible she either misread it at the time or misremembered it later on.

Something they have been consistent about is hearing the two shots in rapid succession, within seconds according to them. Assuming for now that the statement is correct, has anyone figured out how that can be if dad is at the front door and mom is barricaded in the bathroom?

One thought is there were more shots that the neighbors didn't hear, IOW that dad was shot twice. After that I'm stumped.

 

[Dr.StClements]

point 2) Door/finding James

It was interesting that the Sheriff said yesterday that the family wanted to communicate via the police and hadn't been made to.

When this tragedy/crime very first occurred, one of the family members did relay some of what the police had told them about the crime scene. This is entirely understandable - they'd be in complete shock and not thinking about any consequences of what they had repeated. Some of the info got reported in the press. I think at that point LE did strongly advise the family that it was in the best interests of Jayme, and solving the case, that family didn't disclose -even to friends -anything further of what LE was saying.
Again, LE will only be giving the family what LE deems they should have and no more.
So, the relative/s that spoke out (I think it was a female) alluded to the first conversations with police. They (LE) said that James was inside the house and had opened the front door (whether he'd heard something outside or someone banged on the door wasn't mentioned- it would be impossible to ascertain that). Whoever was outside, right outside the front door, starting shooting at James before the door was fully opened and some of the bullets went through the door and hit James. They were told at that point that multiple shots had been fired and James died as a result of same.
Apparently, at the same time, they were also told that Denise had barricaded herself in the bathroom and an emergency call was made on her 'phone. It wasn't clear from what they said whether Denise had been near her husband and then ran to the bathroom. Something that did sound slightly strange and was mentioned - was that the killer/s might have been alerted to Denise being in the bathroom when her 'phone kept ringing and they found her there and fatally shot her too.
This would suggest that she'd either been injured prior to locking herself in the bathroom, or that she was so terrified when the call connected that she literally couldn't speak; she was mute with terror. This sounds implausible to me because if I heard my child shouting for help, I'd be out there with them. But we don't know what was happening at that time.
The only other explanation I can think of is that she was near to her husband when shots were first fired through the door, received a severe internal injury as a result and rushed to the nearest place she could lock herself in to make an emergency call - but her injuries quickly rendered her unconscious. She wouldn't necessarily lose a lot of blood externally, leaving a trail that the killer/s could follow.
What is interesting is that the police are refusing to confirm information about the door (e.g. whether it was kicked in). This follows on from the family member speaking out and unintentionally revealing too much?
It's little wonder that the family are saying all their comments are being made only through police now. Everyone wants Jayme found and the killers apprehended asap.
Whoever went to that house intended to kill from the outset. Whether they'd laid in wait for James to return home from work, or made a snap decision to go there, they were intent on murder. I'm wondering if James opened the door sufficiently for them to see it was him and start shooting, and he in desperation tried to shut the door again, but received fatal shots and the killer/s forced the door (that was already unlocked by James) to gain entry.
We'll never know until all the evidence available is pieced together - and it may be that it will never be possible to answer - but whoever was at the house was hellbent on using violence from the outset. This could be something to do with revenge and extreme anger towards the adults. It also happens in paedophile cases, when the intention is to abduct a child. These two possible scenarios end to have different outcomes in terms of child safety.
​

 

[EJB123456]

I was disappointed to see the neighbors giving yet another interview in the DM. It really is time to stop or it could create a problem down the road if the case is solved and someone goes to trial IMO.

It wouldn't surprise me if they had the wrong time. I think only JS looked at the clock and IMO it's possible she either misread it at the time or misremembered it later on.

Something they have been consistent about is hearing the two shots in rapid succession, within seconds according to them. Assuming for now that the statement is correct, has anyone figured out how that can be if dad is at the front door and mom is barricaded in the bathroom?

One thought is there were more shots that the neighbors didn't hear, IOW that dad was shot twice. After that I'm stumped.

Yeah I certainly believe there were more shots the neighbors didn’t hear.