AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #12

[TriumphRatty]

Earlier today I was about to respond to a post about birdshot not doing damage to a body. Lost access before I could and don't remember who posted.

Damage depends on how close muzzle is to victim. Close and they will make a sizeable hole because the BBs are packed together. Farther away they have spread out lessening the impact.

Dad and I averaged 16 pheasants a year with birdshot and I guarantee the birdshot was enough to kill the majority of them. I'm thinking these decades later most of those shots averaged 25-30 yards distance. If you are not queasy you can Google shotgun wounds and view images. Not pretty.

Yes a shotgun at close range is very violent. Held very close to someones head would almost take it off. I have shot a lot of things with a shot gun. BTW i am from Fargo, nd and it is my second time posting.

 

[carmenugt]

I found the press conference to be interesting in a couple of ways.

My first impression is that the FBI agent seems frustrated. When I watched it, the Sheriff had a much better cool calm and collected demeanor than the FBI agent who seems annoyed. I'm not sure what that means... just an observations.

My second impression was this. If I was appealing for my family member I feel like I would have made eye contact with the cameras a bit more. I've seen it in other press conferences where relatives make eye contact with the camera in a possible attempt to "connect" with the captor.... I think I've heard other press conferences where the relatives have said things like. "This is her favorite drink, she is a lovely girl if you just talk to her you will see that.....she needs to be home to be back in school, she needs to look after her dog...her dog misses her"

This presser was aimed squarely at Jayme... Not to the captor... one line about if you know where she is please tell the sheriff...but pleas to Jayme .. "Your dog needs you...we need you"

Also the presser while seeming aimed at Jayme did not include anything like "Stay strong Jayme" or something similar
.
Is it possible that they think Jayme could talk her way out of her abductors hands?
IN my profession, I deal with families and loved ones in crisis. I train my younger colleagues never judge families on their behavior. No one will really knows how they will react to crisis. I find that people are just trying to get through the event and cope.

 

[MsBetsy]

Can I just say thanks to the mods for keeping this "place" so clean. Makes my blood boil reading other groups and the amount of rumors, accusations and hearsay that spread like wildfire. It's sickening!

That's horrible. Maybe it's not so far off to assume the family IS actually reading this site.

 

[MntnHiker]

I'm just getting caught up and watched her aunt at the PC. Obviously the statement was prepared, but as far as her mannerisms, lack of eye contact, etc., I think she is just a distraught and very nervous person, speaking in front of thousands (millions?) of eyes, someone not used to doing this and also extremely emotional at the moment (understandably so). She sounded to me just like someone trying to hold it together.

What I am interested in at this point is what all three of the Closses were doing earlier that day/evening. What was each of their last known contact? It is unlikely that they did not make contact with anyone that evening/afternoon via phone--either text, call, social media, etc. I know LE I'm sure has this info. I just feel like in other cases I've followed on here, we hear about the person's last text, their last call or even see their last Tweet/snapchat, etc. I am curious who they spoke to that evening and what their movements were. Did it attract the attention of someone random or an acquaintance? Was this days, weeks in the works?

 

[Bravo]

Yes a shotgun at close range is very violent. Held very close to someones head would almost take it off. I have shot a lot of things with a shot gun. BTW i am from Fargo, nd and it is my second time posting.

Welcome to WS

 

[BB71]

Does anyone know if they announced if they would be doing another search?

Sheriff said no in today's briefing.

 

[CarGoVroomVroom]

I really believe they know who has her, but they don’t know where they are and don’t want any harm to come to Jayme if they Make it public. I think the Starbucks and dog was a sign sent to Jayme and or the perp to let them know that they know what’s gone on. I think the perp is known to Jayme. Please god, she’s still alive and they get her home soon.

Welp, I'm in agreement here. Family listed off her likes and family traditions.

 

[JudgeJoe]

Does anyone know if they announced if they would be doing another search?

LE said yes if new tips suggest they should. Until then, no.

 

[MsBetsy]

Yes a shotgun at close range is very violent. Held very close to someones head would almost take it off. I have shot a lot of things with a shot gun. BTW i am from Fargo, nd and it is my second time posting.

Welcome!! That may explain why it was described as being a particularly horrible crime scene.

 

[KLM6]

Yes a shotgun at close range is very violent. Held very close to someones head would almost take it off. I have shot a lot of things with a shot gun. BTW i am from Fargo, nd and it is my second time posting.

Welcome!

 

[Caylee Advocate]

IDK, but it only added to my doubt of the neighbor's account of hearing 2 shots at 12:31. Not that I think she is lying, but I think her memory of the time is off or she looked at the clock wrong. If they think the perp's car could have been just entering that 14 mile stretch of hwy 8 starting at 12:30 AM then it's unlikely the car arrived to the house by 12:31 and unlikely its occupants had time to fire 2 shots at the door by 12:31. Seems like LE would have backed the timeline for requests from witnesses up at least 15-20 minutes prior to when they think the crime started. Unless perhaps they don't think the crime began at 12:31?
JMO.

Exactly. That's why I use the words "color me confused" a lot in my life. Have a good night.

 

[TriumphRatty]

FWIW, My mother in law is from ladysmith, wi. i have driven by the house at lest 12 ti;mes. I live in Fargo,N D and I still have fear. This is out there somewhere.

 

[zecats]

I'm new to this thread. If someone in my house fired a shot, my dog would freak the heck out. He's never attacked anyone. But I think he'd attack the person. I suspect that the dog may have the perp's DNA.

I suspect the dog was shut in another room somewhere. Most likely she slept with Jayme and possibly Jayme slept with her door closed. I do think if the dog were out and running around, she could have easily run out the open front door and run off. The fact that she was found inside leads me to believe she was terrified and hiding. Maybe Jayme even bargained with the perp not to hurt her dog. jmo

 

[Abba's Tears]

If this was someone the parents were having a dispute with I would think LE and FBI would see something on their phones and computers and would find out very quickly who it was. It sounds like someone out of the blue, like an online predator who wanted Jayme. Someone she thought was a teen but then they would see that too unless she had her own computer and it was taken from the house! They need to ask relatives if she had her own computer which so many kids have nowdays.

Many schools issue laptops as well. So even if a child isn't given one at home, it is possible they have one through their school. The school issued ones are usually pretty limited on what can be accessed and often have an email alert built in so that if anything inappropriate or off-limits is accessed, the school gets an email. However tech-savy teens can be pretty innovative. Not insinuating that Jayme is in that group at all, just some general info.

 

[photographer4]

Theory to ponder:
What if the dispatcher thought Jayme was the suicidal person? What if mom dialed 911 and the scuffle was someone trying to stop Jayme from killing herself after her parents were murdered? Maybe she’s screaming SHE will kill her self and refusing to go somewhere with someone? So now the aunt is appealing to Jayme directly soothingly as she can, telling her she is loved and wanted and reminding her of better times with the drink and the dog? Maybe someone took Jayme with them bc they loved her and that was how to keep her safe...from herself?

Not saying she committed the murders but that she may have been threatening to kill herself as a result of them so someone took her with them for that reason. Protecting her?

 

[Abba's Tears]

Does anyone know if they announced if they would be doing another search?

The Sheriff stated that there were no further searches planned at this time.

 

[pepper 34]

No, it's not the strength it takes to break down a door that is important. It's what it symbolizes. The door is your safety and security. It's how you can lock the world out and have everything behind the door all to yourself... what you own and love and value more than anything else in the world. It's where you let down your guard and put your feet up, enjoy what's yours and vulnerably sleep without fear. He didn't come later at night and quietly pick a lock or quietly force open a window... shoot two sleeping adults and take a child. He walked right up and broke the door down. He planned that imo, in order to terrorize and immediately mentally disable the people inside the house. Look... it was successful; he was in total charge of everyone in that house. He was angry at the adults (or one of them.) I think he was miffed somehow and somewhere. He may have said something inappropriate to Jayme in the company of one of her parents. I suspect it was her mother who heard him and chastised him in public. "Insulted" him, by his way of thinking. He saw it as rejection, demeaning and like a mental castration of his big, bad self. Nobody talks to him like that and especially when he was trying to be nice. (He doesn't know how to be nice... it was creepy and uncomfortable; whatever it was he said. It could have even just been one of those looks that is inappropriate when dealing with young girls.) In a restaurant, at a school sports game, in a drugstore, at the church... name anyplace. He followed them home and made a mental note of where they lived and that he would come back and then he went on his way and did a slow boil over time. He got himself worked up enough to come back and show them all who they'd messed with. Revenge is my guess on the motivation. I think he lives in the general area and saw Jayme and her mother occasionally. He'd drive by the house and he let it bugger his brain over time. I guess you'd call it stalking but I think of it as letting things like hate, resentment, anger and rejection simmer until something makes the heat go up and then the person explodes.

 

[MsBetsy]

If this was someone the parents were having a dispute with I would think LE and FBI would see something on their phones and computers and would find out very quickly who it was. It sounds like someone out of the blue, like an online predator who wanted Jayme. Someone she thought was a teen but then they would see that too unless she had her own computer and it was taken from the house! They need to ask relatives if she had her own computer which so many kids have nowdays.

I think they have already looked thoroughly into any SM activity. I don't think they found anything. Jmo

 

[ReckoningDay]

Sure kicking in a door by itself isn't such a big deal... but being able to kick in a door, murder 2 adults and take another hostage is a different story. We're talking ex-military, avid hunter or deranged schizophrenic stalker stuff with all that combined.

And unless you knew the family extremely well, you could be walking into a really dangerous situation. Just imagine being a total stranger to the area, randomly picking a house out in the countryside (which is typically full of hunters) and trying to pull something like that. I'm a grown man and I'd vomit myself sitting in the car just trying to work up the nerve, not just because it's such a horrific thing to do but also knowing the next few minutes of my life could easily be my last unless it goes 100% totally according to plan. How's he to know that they didn't see him walk up the driveway and have a shotgun waiting for him? It takes a special type of nutcase or highly motivated, obsessive stalker to even attempt something like that.

So it's not about being strong enough to kick a door in... if we're talking about a small woman who pulled this off..... that would be shocking to say the least. What's the motive? What would motivate a woman enough to do something that? I get your point that it's possible for just about anyone to kick a door in but that is basically arguing semantics when you add up everything else which doesn't accomplish much.

I dont think it wqasas a woman at all.

Sure kicking in a door by itself isn't such a big deal... but being able to kick in a door, murder 2 adults and take another hostage is a different story. We're talking ex-military, avid hunter or deranged schizophrenic stalker stuff with all that combined.

And unless you knew the family extremely well, you could be walking into a really dangerous situation. Just imagine being a total stranger to the area, randomly picking a house out in the countryside (which is typically full of hunters) and trying to pull something like that. I'm a grown man and I'd vomit myself sitting in the car just trying to work up the nerve, not just because it's such a horrific thing to do but also knowing the next few minutes of my life could easily be my last unless it goes 100% totally according to plan. How's he to know that they didn't see him walk up the driveway and have a shotgun waiting for him? It takes a special type of nutcase or highly motivated, obsessive stalker to even attempt something like that.

So it's not about being strong enough to kick a door in... if we're talking about a small woman who pulled this off..... that would be shocking to say the least. What's the motive? What would motivate a woman enough to do something that? I get your point that it's possible for just about anyone to kick a door in but that is basically arguing semantics when you add up everything else which doesn't accomplish much.

I don't think it was a woman at all. It is most likely a man...I just don't think he had to be big or strong or methed out. A small many wth a gun could easily have done this.

 

[Mollyandme]

I have a family member that has been in LE for 20 years. He was already aware of this case obviously due to the amber alerts, etc. We are about 15 hours away from Barron, Wi so I just showed him the press conference where the aunts were speaking. He said it was extremely calculated and thinks this might explain part of the aunts demeanor for those who feel she didn't seem emotional enough. I told him that a lot of people (not all) seemed to feel a "weird vibe" from the press conference as a whole (based on what I have read). He said it might feel weird to someone who doesn't know the objective, whatever that is supposed to mean. Just wanted to share.