AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #13

[Joebob77]

First post. It seems strange that the responding officers first impression would be a suicide if the door was ajar? What am I missing?

We don't know how long the perp was in the house if James was trying to escape through the kicked in door, then he may been shot from aacross the room and have a head wound to the temple

 

[gitana1]

I don't know, but I would think if he answered the door it makes sense that he would be where they found him. But if the door was kicked in and the killer opened the door and stepped inside to shoot him, his feet wouldn't be partially outside. It only makes sense if he was standing at the door. Wouldn't the force of the gunshot also knock him back a little?

Is it possible he heard commotion at the door, went to check it out, when he got close they were able to gain entry after kicking it repeatedly, OR, he heard kicking and tanked it open, but either way, once he openedor the door was kicked open, he got shot, fell back, and the intruder stepped over the threshold and went after mom?

Or is it also possible the intruder tried to kick in the front door, it didn't work, so he went to the back, (or there were two of them), got in and shot the dad, then chased and shot the mom and then went after Jayme, but dad survived for a few moments after being shot and staggered to the front door trying to escape, opened it and fell in his tracks?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I agree with @MassGuy and @RavenDoc that they are likely scared. Since it's a small town (and speaking as someone who has spent most of her life in a small town), they also might be a bit suspicious of the outside media and unwilling to talk. Or they may not want to upset the surviving family members--who they likely know well--by commenting, even if it is something as innocuous as mentioning seeing her a few days earlier and everything being fine.

After 10 years of posting on WS, and seeing what people on sm and other forums do to the family members who do appear on television, I wouldn't let me worst enemy do it, much less someone I loved.

 

[Stunned]

IMO, and I’m sure this been mentioned hundreds of times. You ONLY open the door at that time of night for someone you know or are expecting. Otherwise I’m dialing 911.

 

[gitana1]

We don't know how long the perp was in the house if James was trying to escape through the kicked in door, then he may been shot from aacross the room and have a head wound to the temple

A 911 call in which people in the background can be heard screaming, "don't do it! Don't do it! Put the gun down!"?

I could see how someone in the heat of the moment could first cracterize this is a murder-suicide deal.

 

[BIC]

My theory is that James is slightly taller than the window in the door and had to duck to look out. That would mean his legs were bent at the knees slightly when he was shot. His body would be forced backward at the head but his legs would still be slightly bent and end up against the door or the wall near the door. After the door was kicked in, James' feet would fall into the open doorway due to gravity. The door was only said to be ajar so his feet don't have to have been out the door very much. But we also do not know how far out the door his feet were. His feet could have been inches inside the threshold but still visible from outside and appearing in a way that someone approaching would describe him as "dead in the doorway". We just don't know exact positioning.

The body doesn’t actually get forced anywhere. It’s not a movie. You either drop, or stagger away. IMO

 

[photographer4]

So maybe James answers the door. Steps out of the house to speak with someone and that someone opens fire. James ends up staggering backwards and hits the door himself making it appear kicked in? He falls near the doorway where police find him. Predator enters the house and the rest happens?

 

[gitana1]

IMO, and I’m sure this been mentioned hundreds of times. You ONLY open the door at that time of night for someone you know or are expecting. Otherwise I’m dialing 911.

That's a smart observation. So if he did open it, he likely knew who it was.

Unless maybe he heard noise at the door and was opening it to see what was happening. Maybe thought it was teenagers fooling around out there?

 

[Mountain_Kat]

That’s the thing. As an adult, the standard is higher in regards to calling something a kidnapping, as a person could be missing on their own volition.

As a child though, especially under these circumstances, it is odd that they aren’t calling it a kidnapping.

Clearly that’s what happened.

It's especially odd because, in the case of 15 year old Elizabeth Thomas, it was called an abduction from the very start, and she went with Cummings willingly.

 

[photographer4]

Paul Blume on Twitter[/QOut

Paul Blume on Twitter

would you even want to go in? I don’t know that I would.

 

[Stunned]

I don’t own a gun, noises at my door at that time of night. 911. Let them deal with bear on porch. I would never open my door!

 

[Seattle1]

Apologies if this was already discussed-
In their obituary I noticed that it said Denise was a member of the church, but there wasn't any mention of this for James. I've also seen reports that Denise and Jayme were active members, but again no mention of James. Wondering if someone at church --not even necessarily someone who had been there long--saw Denise and jayme and figured it was a single mom and daughter. Learned their address, and thus weren't expecting a man to be there. Not sure if I really lean towards this theory but at his point I'm looking at anything and everything

It was reported earlier that Denise taught catechism in what's been referred to as a "clustered parish" which would give Denise and Jayme more exposure. However, this is a very small town, and they're longtime if not lifetime residents and more likely they'd be known to other parishioners. MOO Where are you Jayme?

ETA: Clustered Parish when only one clergyman/priest available to serve the area so they alternate church service location (i.e., Barron and Cameron).

 

[Stunned]

It was reported earlier that Denise taught catechism in what's been referred to as a "clustered parish" which would give Denise and Jayme more exposure. However, this is a very small town, and they're longtime if not lifetime residents and more likely they'd be known to other parishioners. MOO Where are you Jayme?

What is a clustered parish?

 

[debirlfan]

That's what I'm confused about. If the killer opened the storm door and then kicked the inner door in and shot, then the body would not end up in the doorway, it would have been further inside. He would have had to have either been using his body to hold the storm door open, or gone inside before aiming and taking a shot.

That's why I tend toward thinking there were two perps - one held the storm door, the other kicked and shot.

 

[Gardener1850]

You have some good points and thoughts. Question, if James was shot through the door, then the door was kicked open, how did his feet get in the doorway? JMO, but if someone is shot through a door, their body is now behind that door. When the Perp kicks it in, the body goes between the door and wall.

My theory is that James is slightly taller than the window in the door and had to duck to look out. That would mean his legs were bent at the knees slightly when he was shot. His body would be forced backward at the head but his legs would still be slightly bent and end up against the door or the wall near the door. After the door was kicked in, James' feet would fall into the open doorway due to gravity. The door was only said to be ajar so his feet don't have to have been out the door very much. But we also do not know how far out the door his feet were. His feet could have been inches inside the threshold but still visible from outside and appearing in a way that someone approaching would describe him as "dead in the doorway". We just don't know exact positioning.

Adding to the above, I don't think his body would necessarily be between the door and the wall. think about the direction the two doors hinge. The hinges are on opposite sides for their doors. The door knobs are on opposite sides. The storm door opens out. The main door opens in. When someone approaches the house and pulls open the storm door they are forced to stand slightly to the right side of the porch/right side of the main door. If they point a gun at the small window in the middle of the door they will most likely be pointing it at an angle from their position on the porch, not straight on. Same if they point a gun at the locking mechanism on the main door while holding open the storm door. By the same token, most people as they go to answer a door from inside their home will stand near the door knob/opposite side of the hinges. If James looked out the window he may have been toward the middle of the door but not directly in the center. He may have been standing in front of the door knob area with his body turned at a slight angle to the wall. If the perp shot James through the door the bullet is coming at a slight angle and his body is at an angle as well. His body is most likely to fall at an angle to the wall away from the door knob area, not directly in front or behind the door. Maybe only his feet would be in the way of the door under the door knob side of the door. Not sure if I'm explaining this well, but I hope it helps someone to visualize. It's just a theory and I could be all wrong. I throw out so many theories that I probably get more wrong than I do right.

 

[MsBetsy]

Is it possible he heard commotion at the door, went to check it out, when he got close they were able to gain entry after kicking it repeatedly, OR, he heard kicking and tanked it open, but either way, once he openedor the door was kicked open, he got shot, fell back, and the intruder stepped over the threshold and went after mom?

Or is it also possible the intruder tried to kick in the front door, it didn't work, so he went to the back, (or there were two of them), got in and shot the dad, then chased and shot the mom and then went after Jayme, but dad survived for a few moments after being shot and staggered to the front door trying to escape, opened it and fell in his tracks?

It seems there are many possible scenarios. At first I thought maybe there was a chain lock on the door and the dad was trying to prevent him from coming in, then the door was kicked in and he got shot there. But as you said, I think there may be a chance he also tried to get in the back door, or side, as there were a group of investigators standing on the deck looking down at something in one of the pictures. We have so little to go on. If he did actually answer the door and open it, it would suggest he knew the person. I just don't know.

 

[photographer4]

Multiple can be two I think it’s just the way it’s been reported.

Both died of gunshot wounds. They didn’t know mom was dead in the house til a few mins later. So I assume this means two or more shots at / in dad

 

[Lillymac]

Will the autopsy ever be made available? That report would answer most all the questions.
Time of death. Location of gunshot wounds. How many. Was a gun the only weapon used.
I wish we could get our hands on that..

 

[Sanz]

Oh dear - I hope someone has arranged for clean up - a neighbors family member had to have a clean up service come in after a suicide - they were there all day

A crime scene clean up crew is hired and your homeowners insurance pays for the cleanup and then replacement of any damage to the home.
I don’t know how anyone could cleanup like one of these crews. When a person is shot with a high powered rifle or a shotgun there’s different body parts that fly in obscured places.
Believe me its gut wrenching to find a family members body part under a microwave. These companies are Pro’s.

 

[bears10]

The whole kicking in the door thing is really throwing me off. To me, that is an expression of anger acted out by someone who’s coming for you and they WANT you to know it and be scared. If this was just about Jayme, why not try to sneak in through a window, or take her while she’s outside one day? Why bust in and kill both of her parents first? I just can’t shake the feeling that this isn’t just about Jayme.