AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #18

[MsBetsy]

Not hunting season - would be illegal. Also, it is at night and near homes. Hunters are very responsible and would not be in that area.

They would not necessarily have to be hunting. Someone could just be shooting at an animal to scare it. The neighbors said they were used to gunshots. But I don't think the shots were from anything other than the murder, if that is what was being suggested. I'm sure they would have figured that out by now. Jmo

 

[chi123]

Killer/abductor needs food, maybe clothes for Jayme, probably gas. Strange that no one has seen anything. Could it be that where he purchases these items, he is well-known, and no one would suspect him?

There's thousands and thousands of people everyday going into Walmarts buying food, clothes and gas. Unless Jayme goes with the abductor it'd be impossible to tell from just buying normal everyday items, unfortunately.

 

[Gardener1850]

Hispanic male. Source WCCO

The Midwest Medical Examiner’s Office has identified the deceased as 24-year-old David Medellin Jr. The manner of death has been ruled a homicide.

Yep. Not Jayme. See link updates on his thread: MN - MN - Kandiyohi Co, Body found in a Field near Willmar, 31 Oct 2018

 

[Wrenny]

ETA. I had my map wrong and didnt realize their original house location was already in Barron Wisconsin. Which leaves only two choices to get out of state quickly. Either go west to Minnesota border or south to Iowa border.

FWIW Barron is less than an hour to Minnesota, around 3 hours to Iowa or to Michigan, around 4 1/2 hours to Illinois, or almost 5 hours to Canada.

 

[Cardinal47]

Still fixated on the violent entry so I decided to analyze.

How many kicks (shoe prints) were used? If one is the answer, the killer knew how to properly kick in a door and where to kick. It takes sort of a leg lunge with one leg toward the door near the lock.

The height of a lock for most doors is about two feet, eight inches (or higher), plus remember the door bottom is the same level as the inside floor, about another 8 inches higher than the ground/walk where the killer would be standing. This means the person kicking the door at the correct place and the correct level would need to kick with great force higher than three feet or more from where he was standing. IMO the person would probably be in good physical shape and agile.

So, if the door was one kick to open, who is trained to do this? Ex or current military, SWAT, federal agents, fire-fighters, martial arts. Not your average burglar.

That's why I always think of a big mobile guy. Not somebody that sits behind a computer pretending to be Prince Charming.

Meth arrests are up 538% since 2011. I posted the link on this (arrest data) in a previous thread.
Woman across the street from Closs' home was arrested for meth the next day.
I think Jim Closs had a gun and that the perp took it with him.
I would like to know whether Jim and Denise were shot by the caliber bullet.
That would tell a story. But LE has been curiously tight lipped.

If she was making it I'm sure she had customers. If she had customers they need money to buy and use. Look across the street. So we have not heard of any money or valuables being taken. Rings, phones, computers? Jayme might have been a bonus and now things look really bad for her.
Thinking of Holly Bobo. Weren't they Meth heads?

Killer/abductor needs food, maybe clothes for Jayme, probably gas. Strange that no one has seen anything. Could it be that where he purchases these items, he is well-known, and no one would suspect him?

Mollie Tibbetts killer was a local and nobody was alerted when he went through out the town. Only because of that one tip with the video do we have Mollie back and her killer locked up.

 

[Gardener1850]

Killer/abductor needs food, maybe clothes for Jayme, probably gas. Strange that no one has seen anything. Could it be that where he purchases these items, he is well-known, and no one would suspect him?

I think it's possible he is going about his day-to-day in his own community. I think that is why these guys often get caught on camera at Walmart. If they have to buy anything for the victim, there is a feeling of anonymity at a bog box store and many Walmarts have self check out. He could go in and buy clothes for Jayme in cash and not speak to a single person while in the store. As long as he doesn't act strange or call attention to himself or see someone he knows, no one is going to note who he is and what he is buying. And sadly as the holidays draw near, it becomes less suspicious for a man to be seen buying girls items. Men have to do Christmas shopping too. There is nothing suspicious about buying food or gas in your own community-- unless their habits of what they normally eat and where they normally get gas suddenly change. Only people close to someone would notice that type of minor change. I still hope someone who knows him sees this type of thing and puts two and two together to call in a tip. JMO.

 

[IslandGirrl]

At 0:19 is one of the angles of the house that shows what could be a bullet hole in the window. It is the 2nd window to the right of the door. I've seen this on a few close ups of the house but cannot really tell

I think it is just light reflection. It is similar to other areas of the window. That is what it looks like enlarged anyway. MOO

 

[tmar]

Some random thoughts:

1) There are new rapid DNA testing technologies available to LE. I would not be surprised if the FBI or a vendor has made this available in this case if needed

2) Some LE have been using comprehensive, but targeted, court-ordered cell phone location record dumps from Google to ID specific phones in an area at a given time. You still need a suspect, though, generally, to tie the phone information to. If this is being used in this case I'd think they'd keep it very quiet.
(To find suspects, police quietly turn to Google)

3) As mentioned by others, commercial vendors allow comparison of DNA samples to commercial DNA databases which has proved effective in various recent cold case breaks

4) Scaling down the investigation team is both a practical (fewer new tips) and financial (the OT costs are enormous)

5) Meth is a significant problem in this part of the country

What happened?

1A) <modsnip: No MSM to substantiate>

1B) What I like nearly as well is someone known to the family was discovered showing an unhealthy interest in Jayme and acted to stop from being exposed.

2) Various stalker scenarios

3) Some kind of personal money/dispute/other issue toward the parents

After that we drop off in the odds of other scenarios(IMHO).

Random? Why would dad open the door to a stranger? Could have been rushing to investigate I suppose makes the most sense in this scenario. I don't like it much.

The B&E panty snatcher is an odd event. Even though he was cleared, I would have kept him under surveillance for several days after in case he was a lackey.

The truck parking question? Likely not unusual, but what if he parked there because a known vehicle was already in the driveway so that person could easily leave?

My "novel" scenario is that someone who's done similar crimes in the past has been triggered to act again (the similarities to the Short case, for example, are intriguing). A far-fetched, fantastic scenario to be sure.

I do think the person(s) who did this will have a record of at least armed robbery if not murder.

I wish the timeline was more clear. I'm still not 100% sure of when the shots were heard or if they were near the beginning or end of the event.

As far as the wrong house thoughts, maps and addressing is kind of my gig. Hitting the wrong house due to a mapping error is possible and the road naming in that area (and much of Wisconsin and rural USA, tbh) can be confusing. But, in the most likely scenarios, there would be no mistake on the location of the house.

All submitted as IMHO and hope I didn't step on any toes - not my intention, just so many posts.

What a case. I sure hope Jayme is found soon.

Welcome chili.
Your first post is great.
Hope to hear more from you.
You have considered so many points, and bringing them up, helps in my thinking about the case.
MOO.

 

[Cj707]

Here's a scenario that allows this plus allows dad coming home later. What if dad was not home (work, casino, bar, whatever) When the bad guy got there (intending to kidnap Jayme? intending to rape Jayme?) and kicked in the door. Bad guy kills mom, and is occupied with Jayme, when dad gets home. Another car in the driveway so he just drives up on the side like that and runs to the door, seeing it kicked in, runs in to try to help. Bad guy meanwhile hears dad coming, grabs Jayme and runs out the sliding door. Dad hears Jayme yelling outside, turns back toward the door to run out and try to save her, bad guy shoots him, and continues to leave, with Jayme.

Thank you for your post. I have been trying to think of scenarios that would fit the idea that the dad came home to the crime in progress. Its just so difficult to say with certainty because of all the unknowns, but for some reason I have had the feeling this is what happened. Idk why, maybe the way the truck was parked. If this scenario did happen when and how are you thinking the 911 call was made?

 

[tmar]

Good morning.

I wish a break would come but its also possible they already have potential POIs in mind. They certainly aren't going to release that info to the public rightly so.

I still see some thinking the suspect wouldnt take these high risks if it was just an home invasion or robbery or even if they came to abduct only Jayme.

That thinking puzzles me somewhat and why that is discounted since we continue to see murderers/kidnappers who do take these high risks continuously.

What may seem as too risky for any of us for a certain motive was obviously not too risky for suspects who have taken theses risks. Even plenty of the suspects who weren't known to the victims do the same.

Murder and kidnapping have always been the highest risks yet it never stops anyone from doing just that.

I continue to think all three victims were his intend three targets. The way it was carried out was according to his premeditated plan before even forcing his way into the home.

I still do not know who the suspect is or if they had some kind of relationship with all three or none at all.

Both kind of suspects have committed these same like crimes in the past so both options remain viable for me at this time.

I don't discount any possible motives for that can only become known when the suspect is apprehended.

I do however believe this is only one suspect involved. Sole perpetrators have long been able to carry out murdering multiple victims..and kidnapping others all by themselves. Even murdering more victims and kidnapping more than one.

If the suspect does turnout to be a meth head or meth heads there may be more than one involved. Not because they needed help but because they tend to run in packs.

Imo

I agree oceanblueeyes with your opening sentence.
As with Mollie's case, all of a sudden, we had an arrest.
Hope here, similarly, this will happen.

 

[ELOCsoul]

Given the delay in identifying the person(s) responsible for these crimes, I think there may have been a third party involved in a grudge against the father. Once the case is solved it will probably be politicized very quickly, similar to the Mollie Tibbetts case, and that will be unfortunate.

 

[otto]

Indeed-just throwing in the human element here....our industry cannot get young folk to become plumbers...and they cannot get anyone to become "drain cleaners" ...now imagine trying to talk anyone into becoming a septic tank pumper.....its a well paying dirty job....so why not apply those facts to the guys and gals in LE. If it even was suggested ...it could have been shot down due to " who the f.. wants to look in there?" screw that...just like the rest of society looks on the job. IMO

We need an expert who can speak to the half life of DNA that is sitting in human waste for weeks. I'm going to hazard a guess that DNA soaked in human waste and bacteria for even a a few hours is useless. What do you think?

 

[Mistermagoo]

I think it is just light reflection. It is similar to other areas of the window. That is what it looks like enlarged anyway. MOO

I see parts of it that look like it is definitely light bit there is one spot where it is all white that looks like there is a hole in it. Maybe I can find other videos with better pic .

 

[photographer4]

Killer/abductor needs food, maybe clothes for Jayme, probably gas. Strange that no one has seen anything. Could it be that where he purchases these items, he is well-known, and no one would suspect him?

Maybe has other kids her size / age (his own kid / step kid)

 

[Oakland CA]

Does anybody know of any case where parents were murdered and young girl taken in so little time? I can recall a lot of cases I've followed but never one like this.

Keddie murders? (Single parent)

CA - CA - Sue Sharp, 36, & 3 children, Keddie Cabin Murders, Plumas, 11 April 1981

 

[rebeccaeee]

One theory that keeps reappearing is that the Closs house was mistakenly targeted. It is not my personal favorite theory BUT we had an incident in my town last night where a young girl was killed when their house was mistaken for another. Granted, big city=big crime and criminals aren't the brightest. Just parking this story link to show that it DOES happen, multiple killers DO make mistakes in addresses and violence that looks random and/or targeted is not always directed at the victims. North Las Vegas police: Wrong house was targeted in shooting of 11-year-old girl

 

[photographer4]

I agree oceanblueeyes with your opening sentence.
As with Mollie's case, all of a sudden, we had an arrest.
Hope here, similarly, this will happen.

I had wondered if they have an idea of who they’re after here and maybe have someone watching, but don’t want to jump too soon or with too little solid evidence so as to risk someone walking free and clear. Or, are waiting to confirm Jayme is with someone they’re eyeballing but they don’t wanna spook someone into taking her and running or hurting her.

 

[tmar]

It occurs to me that LE is avoiding the mention of the murders so as not to antagonize the perpetrators into harming Jayme more than they have. Their comments, as you know, have pretty much been limited to bringing Jayme home or finding the cars.

The point you make Mercedes is important.
As you state, perhaps not to antagonise the Perpetrator, if Jayme is with him.

 

[Parks]

One theory that keeps reappearing is that the Closs house was mistakenly targeted. It is not my personal favorite theory BUT we had an incident in my town last night where a young girl was killed when their house was mistaken for another. Granted, big city=big crime and criminals aren't the brightest. Just parking this story link to show that it DOES happen, multiple killers DO make mistakes in addresses and violence that looks random and/or targeted is not always directed at the victims. North Las Vegas police: Wrong house was targeted in shooting of 11-year-old girl

Wow, that heartbreaking.

 

[Cj707]

I have a question and I am not trying to be a smart *** in any way, shape, or form, but has it been confirmed that the door was in fact kicked in?

Thank you!