AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #20

[Mountain_Kat]

The post that I was replying to had to do with an unknown stalker or someone fixated on Jayme.

Gotcha. I'm getting two different trains of thought mixed up. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[SharonNeedles]

Not always. No one was aware that Brian David Mitchell was obsessed with Elizabeth Smart.

True. But can you imagine that kind of situation opening with a blitz style rampage? I can’t.

 

[Herb.Wis]

I can see that it premeditated and marginally planned. But do you think it was well planned and well executed ? Because THAT, I just don't see.

You can't? To enter the Closs home at night, kill the father, find and kill the mother, find and force Jayme into his/their vehicle and get away unseen by anyone within 8 minutes of the 911 call and the cops arrival suggests that it WAS very well planned and perfectly executed. That's why I think that if it was a lone white guy sex pervert killer he had military training. Possibly the same may be true if the perps are tied to the local foreign community. In the latter case I believe there were two perp's working as a team. Otherwise just one perp. Just my hunch. In both cases Jayme was the target. If my second scenario is correct there is a good chance she's still alive. In my first scenario, not so much.

 

[kkdj]

No, I don't see a well thought out, well executed plan in all this. I see a crime scene that tells me everything bascially went to s*it.

JMO

I'm not sure what all was at the crime scene. What I do know is that 2 adults were murdered by gunshot and a child is missing. If the objective was to take Jayme, the obstacles (parents) were eliminated. That could have been thought out, planned and executed.

 

[Jerrod]

In October, the roadside view of the house isn’t particularly obscured. The red dot in the picture represents the location of the trampoline, which is less than 200’ from the road. Any daytime passerby happening to notice a slender young girl playing in or around a trampoline in such a rural location might think it’s a situation too tempting to pass up late at night when most homeowners are least attentive and most vulnerable. In such a case, it’s likely the crime would never have happened had their house been located in town, surrounded by neighbors and street lights.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I'm not sure what all was at the crime scene. What I do know is that 2 adults were murdered by gunshot and a child is missing. If the objective was to take Jayme, the obstacles (parents) were eliminated. That could have been thought out, planned and executed.

With all due respect, if it was so well thought out and executed, how was someone able to make a 911 call from Denise's cell phone ?

 

[Herb.Wis]

Right. But I think this whole discussion stemmed from the idea that Jayme might have had some kind of "boyfriend " or cyber flirtation or whatever. I see zero evidence of that. Unknown stalker, I could perhaps see.

Unknown stalker is most likely the truth without any cyber trail. Otherwise the cops would know.

 

[daisy6441]

The dance recitals keep coming up but in my experience the people who come to them (even public like a park) are usually people with reason to be there like family members. But there is the angle of someone who is there to work. Caretakers of the building that is being used for the performance or such. My niece often dances at a school local to her studio because they have a nice auditorium.

 

[kkdj]

With all due respect, if it was so well thought out and executed, how was someone able to make a 911 call from Denise's cell phone ?

I tend to believe the person who made that call was Denise and she was already shot and subsequently died from that. I suspect the perp was removing Jayme at this time of the call.

 

[SharonNeedles]

I'm not sure what all was at the crime scene. What I do know is that 2 adults were murdered by gunshot and a child is missing. If the objective was to take Jayme, the obstacles (parents) were eliminated. That could have been thought out, planned and executed.

If the objective were to take Jayme and it was thought out and planned, I don’t see how a brutal double homicide fits into the plan. Not to mention the neighbor hearing gunshots and potentially still being at the scene 25+ minutes later with somebody still able to dial 911.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

If the objective were to take Jayme and it was thought out and planned, I don’t see how a brutal double homicide fits into the plan. Not to mention the neighbor hearing gunshots and potentially still being at the scene 25+ minutes later with somebody still able to dial 911.

And the relatively short window of time in which the suspect managed to escape. Damned close call for such a well organized, well executed crime, imo.

 

[daisy6441]

In regards to the was or wasn't it planned. What if it was both? Could have been a small group of teens targeted the house for whatever reason with the intent of going in and attacking/killing. Not unheard of. Could be they knew Jayme or had only seen her at school. Maybe a perceived slight by Jayme? Or totally random choice? They take her with the intent of torturing her and killing her later. Wouldn't be the first time a group of teenagers carried out a violent attack for no or little reason.

 

[Herb.Wis]

In regards to the was or wasn't it planned. What if it was both? Could have been a small group of teens targeted the house for whatever reason with the intent of going in and attacking/killing. Not unheard of. Could be they knew Jayme or had only seen her at school. Maybe a perceived slight by Jayme? Or totally random choice? They take her with the intent of torturing her and killing her later. Wouldn't be the first time a group of teenagers carried out a violent attack for no or little reason.

Small group of teens would be local. No way could that remain secret. This was done by a grown man or men of a cunningly ruthless nature with Jayme as their objective.

 

[kkdj]

If the objective were to take Jayme and it was thought out and planned, I don’t see how a brutal double homicide fits into the plan. Not to mention the neighbor hearing gunshots and potentially still being at the scene 25+ minutes later with somebody still able to dial 911.

I do see eliminating the obstacles to taking Jayme fits. I do not think hearing gunshots in the middle of the night was a worry as it happens in that area and the reason the neighbors didn't call LE. I am not convinced of the neighbors timeline being accurate and I think Jayme might have not been willing to go which took some coercion time by the perp. My theory is the 911 call was not anticipated by the perp as I suspect he confiscated 3 phones at the onset. I'm not sure if there was a 4th or someone somehow got one. jmo imo imho
p.s. I reserve the right to change my mind.

 

[daisy6441]

Small group of teens would be local. No way could that remain secret. This was done by a grown man or men of a cunningly ruthless nature with Jayme as their objective.

Teens have carried out plenty of violent attacks without any one knowing beforehand. A small group they could talk to each other and keep each other from talking to others. Easy enough to see where she gets off the bus if they are on it too or know some one who rides it with her.
And not every parent cares or keeps track of where their kids are.

 

[Herb.Wis]

With all due respect, if it was so well thought out and executed, how was someone able to make a 911 call from Denise's cell phone ?

Simple. From the time of the gunshots that killed James, Denise and possibly Jayme tried to barricade themselves in the bathroom and attempted the 911 call. But then the Perp shot Denise too and dragged Jayme out -- maybe the sounds and call for help they heard.

 

[Herb.Wis]

Teens have carried out plenty of violent attacks without any one knowing beforehand. A small group they could talk to each other and keep each other from talking to others. Easy enough to see where she gets off the bus if they are on it too or know some one who rides it with her.

But that posits a gang of murderous teens in Barron! Are the 200 cops involved so dumb they couldn't root them out? Impossible!

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I do see eliminating the obstacles to taking Jayme fits. I do not think hearing gunshots in the middle of the night was a worry as it happens in that area and the reason the neighbors didn't call LE. I am not convinced of the neighbors timeline being accurate and I think Jayme might have not been willing to go which took some coercion time by the perp. The 911 call was not anticipated by the perp as he probably confiscated 3 phones at the onset. I'm not sure if there was a 4th or someone somehow got one. jmo imo imho
p.s. I reserve the right to change my mind.

Which 3 cell phones ? We know for a fact that Denise's cell phone was recovered at the scene. So did the suspect just decide to give that back before fleeing ? As for Jayme and James phones, there is no evidence known to us to indicate whether those are missing or were recovered.

Am I missing something ?

 

[kkdj]

Simple. From the time of the gunshots that killed James, Denise and possibly Jayme tried to barricade themselves in the bathroom and attempted the 911 call. But then the Perp shot Denise too and dragged Jayme out -- maybe the sounds and call for help they heard.

my impression was that the "help" voice was a woman and it was faint. Not a whisper but weak, which has led me to think this person was dying, who I believe was Denise. jmo

 

[kkdj]

Which 3 cell phones ? We know for a fact that Denise's cell phone was recovered at the scene. So did the suspect just decide to give that back before fleeing ? As for Jayme and James phones, there is no evidence known to us to indicate whether those are missing or were recovered.

Am I missing something ?

yes, my jmo, imo, imho. I'll edit my post to be more clear.