AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #20

[bizzle2]

It hasn't been that long. Teens have killed people and gotten away with it for years.

For a group of teens to pull this off, leave no evidence pointing to them behind, not say anything about it, and stay off the FBI's radar for three weeks would be extremely rare. Not to mention that they'd have to be relatively unknown to local police as any prior run-ins with local LE would immediately put them under a microscope.

It's so unlikely that it isn't really worth considering.

 

[SharonNeedles]

Unless they wanted to kill James it make no sense to break into a house with him there and able to fight when they could wait for Jayme to be with only Denise or possibly alone. Taking on both adults just to abduct a kid is extremely risky.

Exactly.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I don't have any theory on this case, but the one theory that does make absolute sense to me is that this was a random (or peripherally random ) home invasion, and that Jayme was taken simply because the suspect(s) didn't want to risk another gunshot being heard after the 911 call was made.

Again, I have no theory, but this is what makes the most sense to me.

 

[daisy6441]

For a group of teens to pull this off, leave no evidence pointing to them behind, not say anything about it, and stay off the FBI's radar for three weeks would be extremely rare. Not to mention that they'd have to be relatively unknown to local police as any prior run-ins with local LE would immediately put them under a microscope.

It's so unlikely that it isn't really worth considering.

Why is it any more unlikely than an adult pulling it off without leaving evidence? I was interested in that type of thing even as a teen so its not out of the realm of possibility for a teen to know about forensics. Someone only has a record if they get caught. I read about a serial killer who was believed to have started violent physical attacks as young as 8 or 9. Most work up to big crime with little things. Peeping or exposing themselves. Peeping Toms eventually get spotted but how many actually get caught unless its in the act? When someone had no real ties to another person they can fade into the background while police are focusing on more obvious suspects. Like when a wife is killed they look at the husband first.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

For a group of teens to pull this off, leave no evidence pointing to them behind, not say anything about it, and stay off the FBI's radar for three weeks would be extremely rare. Not to mention that they'd have to be relatively unknown to local police as any prior run-ins with local LE would immediately put them under a microscope.

It's so unlikely that it isn't really worth considering.

16 and 17 years old.
Three teens arrested in armed home invasion of Cleveland Orchestra violinist

ETA: These were caught relatively quickly, but I'd bet my farm on the fact that if I looked more than a few minutes, I could find cases of teens committing home invasions where they we captured long after the actual crime.

 

[No Stone Unturned]

I’m saddened that the majority of Thread 19’s discussion (and many, many threads before that) centers around drugs, owing money for drugs, and even drug cartels. Certainly the perp could be looking for prescription medication or money, but the details don’t point to that. LE hasn’t stated that any guns, valuables, medications, etc. were taken from the house. The facts are a double homicide and a child abduction.

I would hate to think that if my husband and myself were murdered and our child taken, that hundreds of people online would speculate that we owed money to a drug cartel.

Let’s try to stay focused on the what we know, what friends and neighbors have said about the family, and be mindful that the victim’s families can read what we say.

 

[mtnlites]

I don't have any theory on this case, but the one theory that does make absolute sense to me is that this was a random (or peripherally random ) home invasion, and that Jayme was taken simply because the suspect(s) didn't want to risk another gunshot being heard after the 911 call was made.

Again, I have no theory, but this is what makes the most sense to me.

Right now my 2 main working theories are based on the Lauria Bible/Ashley Freeman case and the Jennifer Short case: the perps came in to hurt the parents and took Jayme at the last minute (like what happened with Freeman/Bible); or that Jayme was always the intended target and both parents were killed as collateral damage (a la Short).

 

[KLM6]

Unless they wanted to kill James it make no sense to break into a house with him there and able to fight when they could wait for Jayme to be with only Denise or possibly alone. Taking on both adults just to abduct a kid is extremely risky.

I agree with this. Unless it was purely random, which isnt really on my radar, I believe it played out as it was meant to be. Maybe not perfectly, but they accomplished the intended goals. moo.

 

[daisy6441]

Since LE hasn't released information on weapons used it is possible there was more than one. A quieter gun used initially and the louder shots heard by neighbors to finish them off. Denise could have still survived and been able to dial 911 but not been able to do more than make noise and get out a help before accidentally ending the call.

 

[daisy6441]

Or they might not have gotten good signal inside the house and the call ended itself?

 

[bizzle2]

Unless they wanted to kill James it make no sense to break into a house with him there and able to fight when they could wait for Jayme to be with only Denise or possibly alone. Taking on both adults just to abduct a kid is extremely risky.

She's 13. When is she going to be alone?

Sounds like most of the places she frequents are very public and/or surrounded by people. School, dance studio, church, family gatherings, etc.

The family home is somewhat secluded. The perp's logic may simply have been that the risk of taking her from her home at night was lower than taking her from a public place during the day. Sure, it's risky, but I can't think of a way to kidnap a thirteen year old girl that doesn't involve a lot of risk. Plus, by doing it at night and eliminating the parents that leaves more time for a getaway. Without the 911 call she wouldn't have even been reported missing until the next day, which would give the perp a good deal of time to get away.

 

[Celt1997]

I’m saddened that the majority of Thread 19’s discussion (and many, many threads before that) centers around drugs, owing money for drugs, and even drug cartels. Certainly the perp could be looking for prescription medication or money, but the details don’t point to that. LE hasn’t stated that any guns, valuables, medications, etc. were taken from the house. The facts are a double homicide and a child abduction.

I would hate to think that if my husband and myself were murdered and our child taken, that hundreds of people online would speculate that we owed money to a drug cartel.

Let’s try to stay focused on the what we know, what friends and neighbors have said about the family, and be mindful that the victim’s families can read what we say.

One doesn't need to be involved in the drug problem in order to be a victim of the drug problem.

And, at this point, LE hasn't stated much of anything. Which is fine by me, but definitely leaves some things open for discussion.

 

[mtnlites]

I’m saddened that the majority of Thread 19’s discussion (and many, many threads before that) centers around drugs, owing money for drugs, and even drug cartels. Certainly the perp could be looking for prescription medication or money, but the details don’t point to that. LE hasn’t stated that any guns, valuables, medications, etc. were taken from the house. The facts are a double homicide and a child abduction.

I would hate to think that if my husband and myself were murdered and our child taken, that hundreds of people online would speculate that we owed money to a drug cartel.

Let’s try to stay focused on the what we know, what friends and neighbors have said about the family, and be mindful that the victim’s families can read what we say.

To be fair, I've seen speculations based on the parents being targeted by a cartel or low-rung local operation, but there have been just as many posts from people saying that if drugs were involved, it was only because the perp(s)were jacked up on them at the time.

 

[Jbetty567]

Theory on the delay between gunshots heard (if correct - 12:30 ish) and 911/extraction of Jayme: she was hiding. Perp planned the whole thing - she was targeted. Blew parents away but she hid and he had to take time to find her. She called 911 from moms phone from her hiding spot but couldn’t say anything - and then he found her. Possible yelling or screams on 911 (unverified).

 

[retiredrickyinCO]

I have no idea if the crime was well executed or not as I have no idea of what was the intended crime. All I know is there are 2 dead parents and their child missing. Maybe murder was never intended but James, attempting to protect his family, things started going south. But to say it was the perfect crime because of no arrests after 3 weeks, I think is a bit of a stretch. Again, until we know exactly what the intention of the crime was, I can't say one way or the other it was/was not well executed..

 

[daisy6441]

Yet look at the teens from the Grunwald case. And all the kids that suspected or knew of it were terrified and didn't say a word.

I'm not sure of what you are talking about but I instantly remembered one I saw where a guy killed a girl while a friend or friends were nearby and later even brought other kids and showed them the body but no one said anything for years.

 

[Diamondems]

Theory on the delay between gunshots heard (if correct - 12:30 ish) and 911/extraction of Jayme: she was hiding. Perp planned the whole thing - she was targeted. Blew parents away but she hid and he had to take time to find her. She called 911 from moms phone from her hiding spot but couldn’t say anything - and then he found her. Possible yelling or screams on 911 (unverified).

This is what I've pictured all along. I have a hard time putting my thoughts to words sometimes, but you hit it on the nail IMO.

 

[daisy6441]

She's 13. When is she going to be alone?

Sounds like most of the places she frequents are very public and/or surrounded by people. School, dance studio, church, family gatherings, etc.

The family home is somewhat secluded. The perp's logic may simply have been that the risk of taking her from her home at night was lower than taking her from a public place during the day. Sure, it's risky, but I can't think of a way to kidnap a thirteen year old girl that doesn't involve a lot of risk. Plus, by doing it at night and eliminating the parents that leaves more time for a getaway. Without the 911 call she wouldn't have even been reported missing until the next day, which would give the perp a good deal of time to get away.

Plenty of people leave 13 year old alone at home. Maybe not for a long time. I also said when only Denise was home because she would be less of a threat than James or both of them together.

 

[CaseyLPC]

If the objective were to take Jayme and it was thought out and planned, I don’t see how a brutal double homicide fits into the plan. Not to mention the neighbor hearing gunshots and potentially still being at the scene 25+ minutes later with somebody still able to dial 911.

I think the killing of the parents may have been a fear play to gain Jayme's complete submission to the abductor's will. She would have been completely traumatized by that level of violence and it would then lead to the abductor being able to remind her of what he could do to her if she didn't comply. Just my .02 though. I am going to attempt to not marry myself too closely to any theory until I have enough information to formulate something more solid.

 

[daisy6441]

I think the killing of the parents may have been a fear play to gain Jayme's complete submission to the abductor's will. She would have been completely traumatized by that level of violence and it would then lead to the abductor being able to remind her of what he could do to her if she didn't comply. Just my .02 though. I am going to attempt to not marry myself too closely to any theory until I have enough information to formulate something more solid.

I'm with you. I have suggested many theories but it doesn't mean I hold them as truth. I am tired of the immediate dismissive attitudes I have gotten since no one knows anything in this case I don't know how you can be dismissive of possibility.