AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #20

[bizzle2]

16 and 17 years old.
Three teens arrested in armed home invasion of Cleveland Orchestra violinist

ETA: These were caught relatively quickly, but I'd bet my farm on the fact that if I looked more than a few minutes, I could find cases of teens committing home invasions where they we captured long after the actual crime.

I'd bet that a very small percentage of them got away with it for very long. Especially once the FBI is involved. Not to mention the kidnapping angle. 16/17 year olds just don't generally have the mental capacity to participate in a double murder/abduction and keep their mouths shut about it. Has there ever been a murder/abduction perpetrated by teenagers where they got away with it for a significant period of time? Feels like quite a reach

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I have no idea if the crime was well executed or not as I have no idea of what was the intended crime. All I know is there are 2 dead parents and their child missing. Maybe murder was never intended but James, attempting to protect his family, things started going south. But to say it was the perfect crime because of no arrests after 3 weeks, I think is a bit of a stretch. Again, until we know exactly what the intention of the crime was, I can't say one way or the other it was/was not well executed..

I absolutely agree with you that we don't know the intent of the crime. But the fact that one of the victims was able to make a 911 call, and that the suspects managed to escape within such a short window of time, just screams to me that they lost control of the situation from the moment they kicked in that door.

Again, jmo.

 

[Herb.Wis]

I tend to believe the person who made that call was Denise and she was already shot and subsequently died from that. I suspect the perp was removing Jayme at this time of the call.

I believe that too. But it also appears that the phone was hung up during the 911 call and also that there was yelling in the background. That implies 2 perps. One who hung up the phone while the other was dragging screaming Jayme away. Then together they carried her outside and put her in the trunk and fled the scene before the cops got there. Perfectly carried out and executed suggests military or other training.

 

[daisy6441]

I'd bet that a very small percentage of them got away with it for very long. Especially once the FBI is involved. Not to mention the kidnapping angle. 16/17 year olds just don't generally have the mental capacity to participate in a double murder/abduction and keep their mouths shut about it. Has there ever been a murder/abduction perpetrated by teenagers where they got away with it for a significant period of time? Feels like quite a reach

Dahmer's first victim comes to mind. He was 17 or 18 when he abducted and murdered a man, wasn't he?

 

[Jbetty567]

This is what I've pictured all along. I have a hard time putting my thoughts to words sometimes, but you hit it on the nail IMO.

Thanks. It seems to me entirely possible that when the dad was shot, Jayme ran to mom the bedroom, mom shoved cell phone in her hands and told her to run and hide. Root cellar, closet, under bed, crawl space... he would have had to search.

 

[Herb.Wis]

Yet look at the teens from the Grunwald case. And all the kids that suspected or knew of it were terrified and didn't say a word.

Okay, but now look at the Todd York case right near Barron in Spooner. Killed both his parents because Mom wouldn't borrow him her car and then held a teenager party in this house with the dead bodies. Kids saw them and Todd then threatened to kill them too if they squealed. Yet shortly thereafter Todd was in jail. These small town kids can't keep a secret. Any teacher knows that.

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

I'm not sure of what you are talking about but I instantly remembered one I saw where a guy killed a girl while a friend or friends were nearby and later even brought other kids and showed them the body but no one said anything for years.

Sorry, I was referring to the David Grunwald case in Alaska. Those that knew or suspected the teens that killed David also knew what they were capable of and terrified to speak up.

 

[daisy6441]

Okay, but now look at the Todd York case right near Barron in Spooner. Killed both his parents because Mom wouldn't borrow him her car and then held a teenager party in this house with the dead bodies. Kids saw them and Todd then threatened to kill them too if they squealed. Yet shortly thereafter Todd was in jail. These small town kids can't keep a secret. Any teacher knows that.

But if the witnesses were involved it gives them more incentive to keep quiet.

 

[Herb.Wis]

I absolutely agree with you that we don't know the intent of the crime. But the fact that one of the victims was able to make a 911 call, and that the suspects managed to escape within such a short window of time, just screams to me that they lost control of the situation from the moment they kicked in that door.

Again, jmo.

We don't know the intent? The OBVIOUS intent was to abduct Jayme!

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

Okay, but now look at the Todd York case right near Barron in Spooner. Killed both his parents because Mom wouldn't borrow him her car and then held a teenager party in this house with the dead bodies. Kids saw them and Todd then threatened to kill them too if they squealed. Yet shortly thereafter Todd was in jail. These small town kids can't keep a secret. Any teacher knows that.

I would say both scenarios are possible.

 

[mtnlites]

Okay, but now look at the Todd York case right near Barron in Spooner. Killed both his parents because Mom wouldn't borrow him her car and then held a teenager party in this house with the dead bodies. Kids saw them and Todd then threatened to kill them too if they squealed. Yet shortly thereafter Todd was in jail. These small town kids can't keep a secret. Any teacher knows that.

In the case included in my signature, there's never been an arrest but several people who were teens at the time were walking around and going so far as to brag about what happened to the young woman and who played which part in her disappearance. So my experience is that yes, it's difficult for teens to keep a secret for long-especially if more than one is involved. In the scheme of things, this crime is still in its early stages. Secrets and stories don't always unravel right away so it's possible people just haven't talked yet. I'm not sure that I buy a teenage perp theory, this feels more adult somehow, but I agree that in small towns teen talk can travel quickly.

 

[Herb.Wis]

But if the witnesses were involved it gives them more incentive to keep quiet.

Yes, but most teens and normal people can't keep double murder and kidnapping secret when there's an all out search. This was either a local loner or people with non-standard ties to the community.

 

[pepper 34]

The dance recitals keep coming up but in my experience the people who come to them (even public like a park) are usually people with reason to be there like family members. But there is the angle of someone who is there to work. Caretakers of the building that is being used for the performance or such. My niece often dances at a school local to her studio because they have a nice auditorium.

The stalker creep in my own life was the junior high school janitor. He was able to literally stalk me (and my 2 sisters) right in front of everyone in the school without anyone even being aware of it (or admitting they were aware; more like it.) But, there were certain girls he would follow around; having memorized our schedules. He'd be there... leaning on his broom as you entered or left the classrooms following us down the hall mumbling, "Hello, Miss ----" over and over even though we ignored him. Getting on the bus at the end of the day, he'd be standing outside on the terrace just staring at us getting onto the bus. It was terrible and we reported him, as a group, but we were the ones seen as "foolish and ridiculous" because people in the office said he was "just a little different but harmless." This went on for a long time before we brought it up at the supper table so parents don't always know.

 

[kkdj]

I believe that too. But it also appears that the phone was hung up during the 911 call and also that there was yelling in the background. That implies 2 perps. One who hung up the phone while the other was dragging screaming Jayme away. Then together they carried her outside and put her in the trunk and fled the scene before the cops got there. Perfectly carried out and executed suggests military or other training.

I don't recall the phone being hung up but rather going silent. That could be a hang up, poor service, dead battery or even someone just throwing it.

 

[daisy6441]

We don't know the intent? The OBVIOUS intent was to abduct Jayme!

Just because she WAS taken doesn't mean she was GOING to be taken. If the person didn't know them they might not have even known she was there. Or they could have thought she wasn't going to be there that night.

In the case included in my signature, there's never been an arrest but several people who were teens at the time were walking around and going so far as to brag about what happened to the young woman and who played which part in her disappearance. So my experience is that yes, it's difficult for teens to keep a secret for long-especially if more than one is involved. In the scheme of things, this crime is still in its early stages. Secrets and stories don't always unravel right away so it's possible people just haven't talked yet. I'm not sure that I buy a teenage perp theory, this feels more adult somehow, but I agree that in small towns teen talk can travel quickly.

I also suggested an adult who lived alone and would be able to keep her hidden away if his intent was to take her. Look at killers who lived in neighborhoods and kept women hostage for years or even killers who took their victims home and buried them in their yards.

 

[bizzle2]

Dahmer's first victim comes to mind. He was 17 or 18 when he abducted and murdered a man, wasn't he?

He was 18. Was a hitchhiker he lured to his house. Not really an abduction. Was also not a group crime.

 

[mtnlites]

We don't know the intent? The OBVIOUS intent was to abduct Jayme!

Not necessarily. It's my opinion that the object of the crime was to abduct Jayme, but there's a chance that they were originally going to kill her, too, but at the last minute decided to take her. There is a chance that the perp still wanted to kill Jayme, but just didn't want to do it there. (For reasons that I am not going to speculate on publicly, but suffice to say that none of those reasons would be good.)

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I'd bet that a very small percentage of them got away with it for very long. Especially once the FBI is involved. Not to mention the kidnapping angle. 16/17 year olds just don't generally have the mental capacity to participate in a double murder/abduction and keep their mouths shut about it. Has there ever been a murder/abduction perpetrated by teenagers where they got away with it for a significant period of time? Feels like quite a reach

Well, murder/child abductions are rare crimes to begin with so there isn't a large pool to draw from there, imo. But many cases of home invasions/abductions/rape occur where the suspects are never caught, so who can say whether those were committed by teens or not ? I will say that I have found many cases of murder, rape, and home invasions committed by teens where it took several months before an arrest was made. Does that have any relevance to THIS case ? No idea. But I certainly wouldn't rule out the suspect(s) in this case being young.

All JMO

 

[Herb.Wis]

In the case included in my signature, there's never been an arrest but several people who were teens at the time were walking around and going so far as to brag about what happened to the young woman and who played which part in her disappearance. So my experience is that yes, it's difficult for teens to keep a secret for long-especially if more than one is involved. In the scheme of things, this crime is still in its early stages. Secrets and stories don't always unravel right away so it's possible people just haven't talked yet. I'm not sure that I buy a teenage perp theory, this feels more adult somehow, but I agree that in small towns teen talk can travel quickly.

Yes, and I definitely agree that somebody around Barron may know or vaguely suspect someone or something. That's why that recent NY Times article quote jumped out at me. But someone who out of shame or fear or cultural differences has not come forward yet. But I don't think it's a gang of killer teens in Barron. Nope.

 

[daisy6441]

Well, murder/child abductions are rare crimes to begin with so there isn't a large pool to draw from there, imo. But many cases of home invasions/abductions/rape occur where the suspects are never caught, so who can say whether those were committed by teens or not ? I will say that I have found many cases of murder, rape, and home invasions committed by teens where it took several months before an arrest was made. Does that have any relevance to THIS case ? No idea. But I certainly wouldn't rule out the suspect(s) in this case being young.

All JMO

We also can't rule out a woman. Basically anyone capable of handling a gun and firing it more than once is a suspect since we have no information to go on.