AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #20

[Mountain_Kat]

Simple. From the time of the gunshots that killed James, Denise and possibly Jayme tried to barricade themselves in the bathroom and attempted the 911 call. But then the Perp shot Denise too and dragged Jayme out -- maybe the sounds and call for help they heard.

My point was that, in a well planned, well executed crime, you don't lose control of your victims.

I stand by that.

 

[daisy6441]

But that posits a gang of murderous teens in Barron! Are the 200 cops involved so dumb they couldn't root them out? Impossible!

If they are kids older than her that have no connections to her then why would they be suspected? They don't seem to have any clues, at least not any they want to share besides vehicles of interest. Why is it any more ridiculous than suggesting them seeing something and being killed by a drug gang or some one coming and putting her on a private plane and flying off with her?

 

[daisy6441]

Which 3 cell phones ? We know for a fact that Denise's cell phone was recovered at the scene. So did the suspect just decide to give that back before fleeing ? As for Jayme and James phones, there is no evidence known to us to indicate whether those are missing or were recovered.

Am I missing something ?

They also say the house phone was disconnected. Disconnected because they no longer had it or disconnected because the line was cut?

 

[Herb.Wis]

And the relatively short window of time in which the suspect managed to escape. Damned close call for such a well organized, well executed crime, imo.

They came close to being caught thanks to the 911 call. I think they also turned off Highway 8 heading west right away on one of those north-south side roads. Probably planned that way to evade cops and cameras. These were not amateurs.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

They came close to being caught thanks to the 911 call. I think they also turned off Highway 8 heading west right away on one of those north-south side roads. Probably planned that way to evade cops and cameras. These were not amateurs.

Not amateurs at what, exactly ? Stealing 13 year old girls from their homes and gunning down both of her parents ? They have a lot of experience at this type of thing ?

 

[kkdj]

My point was that, in a well planned, well executed crime, you don't lose control of your victims.

I stand by that.

The crime was executed and I believe planned. My theory is not a seasoned perp did this and ran into some unexpected hiccups.

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

Small group of teens would be local. No way could that remain secret. This was done by a grown man or men of a cunningly ruthless nature with Jayme as their objective.

Yet look at the teens from the Grunwald case. And all the kids that suspected or knew of it were terrified and didn't say a word.

 

[SharonNeedles]

I do see eliminating the obstacles to taking Jayme fits. I do not think hearing gunshots in the middle of the night was a worry as it happens in that area and the reason the neighbors didn't call LE. I am not convinced of the neighbors timeline being accurate and I think Jayme might have not been willing to go which took some coercion time by the perp. My theory is the 911 call was not anticipated by the perp as I suspect he confiscated 3 phones at the onset. I'm not sure if there was a 4th or someone somehow got one. jmo imo imho
p.s. I reserve the right to change my mind.

Such a plan would surely attempt the path of least resistance and hope for a several hour window to escape unnoticed. Nor could such a plan leave even the slightest opportunity for James or Denise to arm themselves and fight back. It just doesn’t seem to me that what we know fits with such a plan.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

The crime was executed and I believe planned. My theory is not a seasoned perp did this and ran into some unexpected hiccups.

All crimes are executed. Not all crimes are well executed. And I don't believe this one was. I stand by that. But we can certainly agree to disagree.

 

[kkdj]

Such a plan would surely attempt the path of least resistance and hope for a several hour window to escape unnoticed. Nor could such a plan leave even the slightest opportunity for James or Denise to arm themselves and fight back. It just doesn’t seem to me that what we know fits with such a plan.

BBM
?

 

[bizzle2]

Teens have carried out plenty of violent attacks without any one knowing beforehand. A small group they could talk to each other and keep each other from talking to others. Easy enough to see where she gets off the bus if they are on it too or know some one who rides it with her.
And not every parent cares or keeps track of where their kids are.

It's highly unlikely that a group of local teens could pull off something like this and then keep their mouths shut about it for so long. With all the resources on this case something like that would have been flushed out by now.

 

[mtnlites]

Gotcha. I'm getting two different trains of thought mixed up. Thanks for clarifying.

Ha ha, no problem. Sometimes the OG post gets kind of lost in the shuffle.

 

[daisy6441]

It's highly unlikely that a group of local teens could pull off something like this and then keep their mouths shut about it for so long. With all the resources on this case something like that would have been flushed out by now.

It hasn't been that long. Teens have killed people and gotten away with it for years.

 

[Herb.Wis]

In October, the roadside view of the house isn’t particularly obscured. The red dot in the picture represents the location of the trampoline, which is less than 200’ from the road. Any daytime passerby happening to notice a slender young girl playing in or around a trampoline in such a rural location might think it’s a situation too tempting to pass up late at night when most homeowners are least attentive and most vulnerable. In such a case, it’s likely the crime would never have happened had their house been located in town, surrounded by neighbors and street lights.

View attachment 154271

The relatively isolated, rural setting may well have contributed to the Closs family being targeted.

What strikes me every time I see the Closs home is how nice and normal it looks, almost idylic. You can tell that good people lived there. The thought that somebody would bust in there, murder the mom and dad, and then steal their child is the worst kind of outrage. If any crime deserves capital punishment, it's this one.

 

[mtnlites]

If the objective were to take Jayme and it was thought out and planned, I don’t see how a brutal double homicide fits into the plan. Not to mention the neighbor hearing gunshots and potentially still being at the scene 25+ minutes later with somebody still able to dial 911.

It doesn't make sense to us, rational thinking people here on the forum, but there IS precedent for such a thing. Shasta Groene's random (random because he didn't know the family, had never met them, just saw them from afar) abduction and the murder of her parents were planned. The perp has even blogged about how he chose her and why. We don't know about Jennifer Short, but she was abducted and both of her parents were murdered. It stands to reason that Elizabeth Smart's abduction was planned. I wonder what would've happened if her parents had awoken.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

Ha ha, no problem. Sometimes the OG post gets kind of lost in the shuffle.

Well, that and the fact that I'm working as I read and respond. I should definitely do one or the other. Multi-tasking is NOT my forte.

 

[Herb.Wis]

No, I don't see a well thought out, well executed plan in all this. I see a crime scene that tells me that everything basically went to s*it.

JMO

I draw the exact opposite conclusion. So far, at least, the perps have committed the perfect crime and got away scott free with what they came to steal: Jayme Closs.

 

[SharonNeedles]

BBM
?

From the perspective of the assailant(s), breaking into a rural occupied house can get you killed. From the moment they approached the front door they had to be aware that the occupants might have a gun by the door, a gun on the nightstand, anywhere. If this were planned the assailants could not leave any opportunity for the victims to arm themselves.

 

[Mountain_Kat]

I draw the exact opposite conclusion. So far, at least, the perps have committed the perfect crime and got away scott free with what they came to steal: Jayme Closs.

I'm not absolutely convinced that Jayme was the objective. Nor do I agree that this was a " perfect crime ". But we can certainly agree to disagree.

 

[daisy6441]

From the perspective of the assailant(s), breaking into a rural occupied house can get you killed. From the moment they approached the front door they had to be aware that the occupants might have a gun by the door, a gun on the nightstand, anywhere. If this were planned the assailants could not leave any opportunity for the victims to arm themselves.

Unless they wanted to kill James it make no sense to break into a house with him there and able to fight when they could wait for Jayme to be with only Denise or possibly alone. Taking on both adults just to abduct a kid is extremely risky.