AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #21

[CluelessWonder]

I don't know whether anyone has brought this up. But I lived in a small city for many years. We didn't lock our doors unless we felt that there was a threat. Most days, anyone could walk right in. If someone kicked in the door, then that person must have alarmed the father enough to cause him to lock the door. If the shots were fired from outside, those would be the ones the neighbors heard. Another thing I've thought is that maybe it was the father who kicked in the door because he had been locked out by the perp.

 

[Cryptic]

The family were regular church-goers and Denise was very involved in community services as well as raising monies to fight cancer. Her family was everything, including her siblings and extended family. Jim seems like everyone's Dad, busy working, hanging out with the boys. And Jayme was a busy teen with cross country and dancing. It's just a normal family who went to bed that Sunday night after Mom and Jayme attended a family birthday party.

Well said. The victims were not only quintessentialy small town normal, but actively involved in the community.

One neighbor, however, also described the victims as being withdrawn and "almost reclusive". This seems to contradict the other aspects of their lives. The description could just be an individual impression from a neighbor accustomed to well, knowing his neighbors well.

At the same time, the apparent contradiction could stem from an active desire by the victims to keep the location of their actual residence from becoming known. This might have been due to a prior confrontation, perhaps even in the distant past, with somebody.

It might be a good idea to see how many neighbors had the "almost reclusive" impression, or if the victims took other steps to conceal their residence ("forgetting" to update employers of a move, use of a P.O box etc).

Likewise, see if the victims ever had supervisory authority over somebody, or a respect / disrespect issue with somebody over even a trivial matter.

Many Wisconsinites have favorite taverns for years, or even generations. Wisconsin taverns are very numerous and are more than just a place to drink. Rather, they serve as community social gathering places with discussions about everything- including possible respect / disrespect topics. Maybe a miffed tavern patron?

Heck, going way further out on a limb, did the father hunt or trap? Was he ever in a dispute with somebody over who hunts where? Likewise, some trappers can get uhmm... "irate" if unwritten rules regarding who traps where are not followed. The motive would not be hunting or traps, but respect / disrespect issues.

 

[JnRyan]

The changing schools is standing out to me. That is tough for a teenager that age. Starting over? Why? And no, I don’t buy caretaker explanation

I didn't give this much thought earlier, but now I'm wondering about it. I don't believe there was some problem with either her closest school or the one she was attending. But I do wonder how much it expands the possibilities and suspects.

 

[Trino]

What I see when I look at a picture of Jayme, at the moment, is how easily she could become completely unrecognizable. Cute the hair, dye it, slap on makeup. I’m not sure anyone would even see a slight resemblance. IMO

And, this may have happened.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I know what you mean. I've literally scoured everything I could find to get some kind of picture of the town, the neighbors and the Closs family and it's all really unremarkable. There is an opiod issue, but it's not nearly to the level that it is in some areas. It's a typical middle class mill area, a close family with deep roots to the community, typical ups and downs that all people have, the community is fairly stable with a few oddballs and the occasional bar brawl but a very active police force to deal with issues. The family were regular church-goers and Denise was very involved in community services as well as raising monies to fight cancer. Her family was everything, including her siblings and extended family. Jim seems like everyone's Dad, busy working, hanging out with the boys. And Jayme was a busy teen with cross country and dancing. It's just a normal family who went to bed that Sunday night after Mom and Jayme attended a family birthday party.

Yes they really seem to be the typical hardworking family. I have seen nothing in their lives that would bring this tragedy upon them.

So many times we see the most horrendous things happening to very good people who deserved none of it.

I believe this may be the case here again where evil came and destroyed goodness.

Imo

 

[MsBetsy]

To be fair, Romeo killed Juliet's cousin Tybalt...

Completely different scenario. Romeo refused to fight him after declaring his wish for peace between the families, because of his love for Juliet. Mercutio then fights Tybalt, and as Romeo tries to stop the fight Mercutio is killed. Romeo becomes enraged and kills Tybalt out of revenge.

In this situation, the killer fully intended to murder the parents. Or at least, murdered them in order to abduct Jayme. Jmo

 

[Trino]

My grandson started getting himself off to school at age 10 in the middle of grade four. I do need to say he lives in a nice community, walked only a block to school, and there were lots of suburban houses and kids/parents around at the time he left for school. His mom called him every morning to make sure things were okay. The time between when his parents left for work and he was left alone was within community guidelines, and Minnesota is more liberal than some areas. He is now 12, in grade 6, definitely gets himself off to school.

Lots of kids get themselves off to school by age 13. Interesting that this did not seem to be the case with Jayme. Wisconsin has no laws, but kids can definitely be left home alone at age 12.

Jayme would be 13, in grade six/seven and had a caretaker. Interesting...

 

[rainwaterstill]

The changing schools is standing out to me. That is tough for a teenager that age. Starting over? Why? And no, I don’t buy caretaker explanation

Speaking as a teacher, the following reasons for a teen changing schools come to mind, based on experience of former students,. These are not in order. Number 3 below is a very common reason for changing schools.

1. moved to a new district- not applicable
2. legal change in guardianship

3. student has been bullied at old school and changes schools to get away from the bully (ies)
4. someone (usually the parent/guardian, not the student) decides that old school is not academically challenging enough or does not offer a certain program or programs for the student. New school is more challenging academically or does offer those programs.
5. Old school had major issues ( extensive drug/alcohol use by students, gang fights, etc.) and student did not feel safe/parents did not want them attending that school anymore.

 

[MsBetsy]

Yes they really seem to be the typical hardworking family. I have seen nothing in their lives that would bring this tragedy upon them.

So many times we see the most horrendous things happening to very good people who deserved none of it.

I believe this may be the case here again where evil came and destroyed goodness.

Imo

Yes, I don't think the killer had a connection with the family at all. Or at least not in any significant way. As each day passes and they rule out more leads, it seems more likely that this was a random killing. He may have been in the area for the days leading up to the murder, and stalked them for a few days to determine their routine. Killers in the past have said they picked the victims or the house simply for the location and convenience. There were multiple escape routes and the house was fairly isolated.
If Jayme is still alive I hate to think of what she may be going through. I think her abduction was sexually motivated and it is likely she was killed on that very day. Her killer would have no reason to keep her alive. Of course there are other scenarios that are possible, but LE has stated they are basically relying on hope to find her alive. It just doesn't look good. Jmo

 

[Trino]

My grandson started getting himself off to school at age 10 in the middle of grade four. I do need to say he lives in a nice community, walked only a block to school, and there were lots of suburban houses and kids/parents around at the time he left for school. His mom called him every morning to make sure things were okay. The time between when his parents left for work and he was left alone was within community guidelines, and Minnesota is more liberal than some areas. He is now 12, in grade 6, definitely gets himself off to school.

Lots of kids get themselves off to school by age 13. Interesting that this did not seem to be the case with Jayme. Wisconsin has no laws, but kids can definitely be left home alone at age 12.

Jayme would be 13, in grade six/seven and had a caretaker. Interesting...

And, even more interesting is she changed schools to have the same caretaker.

 

[CocoChanel]

<modsnip - quoted post removed>

I respect that even if I struggle to believe he is unrelated to this case. He inserted himself INTO this case by criminally breaking in to the crime scene. To me that makes him a part of this case even if he is not a suspect at this time in the murders and disappearance. He committed a crime against this family and the community within weeks of the initial crime, in the exact same location. His involvement is gnawing at me, but I will shut up so as not to violate any TOS or get this thread off track. Now, what else do we have to speculate on?

 

[Megnut]

With both parents working shifts, it makes sense to me that Jayme would need a chauffeur, to get her to her activities. It makes sense to me that an aunt would be a perfect choice for that. It also makes sense to me that Jayme might choose to and want to hang out with that aunt, as opposed to being alone. When her aunt moved, switching schools could have simply been a practical decision. Nothing nefarious at all.

 

[MsBetsy]

My grandson started getting himself off to school at age 10 in the middle of grade four. I do need to say he lives in a nice community, walked only a block to school, and there were lots of suburban houses and kids/parents around at the time he left for school. His mom called him every morning to make sure things were okay. The time between when his parents left for work and he was left alone was within community guidelines, and Minnesota is more liberal than some areas. He is now 12, in grade 6, definitely gets himself off to school.

Lots of kids get themselves off to school by age 13. Interesting that this did not seem to be the case with Jayme. Wisconsin has no laws, but kids can definitely be left home alone at age 12.

Jayme would be 13, in grade six/seven and had a caretaker. Interesting...

Jayme was involved in daily after school activities as well as dance. Her parents both worked full time. They had a trusted member of the family to rely on to care for her until they got home. Maybe there were days that both parents worked until evening. My daughter is a year older and I would never leave her home to fend for herself at night. She is afraid to be alone in the house after dark. Jayme's mom accompanied her to dance classes and even stayed with her when she skated at the ice skating rink. It seems reasonable that she would want someone to do that when she was unable. These were very involved parents, who seemed to be very protective of their daughter. And it turns out they had good reason to be protective. I don't think the fact that they had a " caretaker," had anything to do with this. Jmo

 

[Trino]

With both parents working shifts, it makes sense to me that Jayme would need a chauffeur, to get her to her activities. It makes sense to me that an aunt would be a perfect choice for that. It also makes sense to me that Jayme might choose to and want to hang out with that aunt, as opposed to being alone. When her aunt moved, switching schools could have simply been a practical decision. Nothing nefarious at all.

So, how did she physically get to her aunt's house? Did her parents take her in the mornings? Why not ride the bus to school?

The sheriff, when asked about a 19 yr old boyfriend, specifically replied, "No comment." Was this a factor?
<modsnip - rumor>

 

[MsBetsy]

I respect that even if I struggle to believe he is unrelated to this case. He inserted himself INTO this case by criminally breaking in to the crime scene. To me that makes him a part of this case even if he is not a suspect at this time in the murders and disappearance. He committed a crime against this family and the community within weeks of the initial crime, in the exact same location. His involvement is gnawing at me, but I will shut up so as not to violate any TOS or get this thread off track. Now, what else do we have to speculate on?

Yes, well, no-one ever said he was a bright guy. A stupid choice. He apparently had a history of doing things like this and likely has some other significant problems besides stealing girls underwear. Jmo

 

[MsBetsy]

So, how did she physically get to her aunt's house? Did her parents take her in the mornings? Why not ride the bus to school?

She probably did ride the bus. The neighbors said they saw her get off the bus. But she would still need transportation from school if she was involved in sports. She ran cross country, I believe. If their school is like ours, the bus only brings kids back to school after games or sports activities off campus. Someone would still have to pick her up. Or if she had dance that day, someone would have to pick her up, take her to dance, and then bring her home. Imo

 

[Trino]

She probably did ride the bus. The neighbors said they saw her get off the bus. But she would still need transportation from school if she was involved in sports. She ran cross country, I believe. If their school is like ours, the bus only brings kids back to school after games or sports activities off campus. Someone would still have to pick her up. Or if she had dance that day, someone would have to pick her up, take her to dance, and then bring her home. Imo

I thought it was said her parents worked opposite shifts.

 

[Trino]

Riverview Hours:
Opens 7:30
School hours: 8:00 - 3:20

 

[MsBetsy]

I don't

And, even more interesting is she changed schools to have the same caretaker.

see that as unusual. It makes sense that since Jayme was already used to and felt comfortable with her aunt, they would not look for someone else who they may not know very well. That would be best for the child, especially if she was quiet and shy. Her Aunt would be the most familiar person, so why change? She may have been caring for her all her life. Why risk trying to find someone new? Imo

 

[rosesfromangels]

I thought it was said her parents worked opposite shifts.

Yes, but perhaps she needed transport during their sleeping hours.