AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #21

[pepper 34]

Right - HPPA laws. Re: Aunt statement at press conf - seemed (to me) like
she was talking in code

That could be. People who share their lives can often say something that only the other person understands due to their history together. When people are very close, even a small facial expression change can "say" just as much as the spoken word. If it was code and Jayme saw and heard her aunt, I've no doubt she understood what her aunt was "saying."

 

[Caylee Advocate]

Are any photos of the victim allowed? I came across a social media account that shared photos that show a happier side of her personality perviously shown

When in doubt, hook up with a moderator to get the best answer.

 

[BIC]

Hmmm...I'm going to have to say no.

Just a thought. It definitely makes this a more complex crime than having 3 victims dead at the house. IMO

 

[mtnlites]

Just a thought. It definitely makes this a more complex crime than having 3 victims dead at the house. IMO

I haven't decided it this case is really that complex. I still think that the perp went there to abduct Jayme and either killed the parents because they tried to stop him or killed them because he's a depraved individual who just wanted to inflict as much pain as possible (and it was a good way of controlling Jayme).

 

[BIC]

I haven't decided it this case is really that complex. I still think that the perp went there to abduct Jayme and either killed the parents because they tried to stop him or killed them because he's a depraved individual who just wanted to inflict as much pain as possible (and it was a good way of controlling Jayme).

I agree with you, but I’m trying to stay open to other possibilities.

 

[JohnTate90210]

I remember it being noted that the neighbour's clock was 7 minutes off. Despite what the neighbours say, the 911 call seems to help immensely in building the timeline. I want to say that whomever was at the residence was prepared to injure the adults living there, but was not prepared to injure a child, and in a panic took young Jayme with them. What happened then we still don't know.

MsBetsy, Trino and pepper 34, thank you very much for your quick insights. The street being a one lane highway does muddy the waters further, not only desensitizing people street to the noise and sight of traffic but also bringing through non locals with more regularity.

pepper 34; I will go back and find these posts you mentioned, thank you for pointing me the right way!

It’s two lanes. One each direction.

 

[VeryVeritas]

There has been a great deal of discussion about how Jayme spent a lot of time with caretaker/aunt. So school + other classes + caretaker.... just how much time did she spend at home? It seems to me, the only time you could most likely find her with parents would be late on a Sunday. Coincidence? If someone was focused on abduction, seems like there would have been opportunities where no one would be dead. Some said its not planned because casings left. If the gun is stolen, or bought on the black market, why care about casings?
1) They planned to kill these people.
2) They didn't care if they had to kill these people to get what they wanted.
3) They just suddenly had an urge needed to kill someone, drove up and boom.
4) They were p.o.'d about something... gambling debt, insult, getting fired, etc
5) It was a hit for something the parents did or was mistaken identity.

 

[#Hayls]

Deleted. Reply was blank.

 

[VeryVeritas]

Are there any cases like(murder+missing child) this in WI in the past 10 years?

 

[crhedBngr]

In a house this size, would you expect the shooter(s) to have blood splatter on them? I realize we have zero facts concerning where they were shot, what the were shot with, where shooters were standing, etc. but in my mind in a house that size assuming James, at least, was shot at close range because of his being found at the kicked in door... I’d assume perp(s) we’re covered in blood too. Or does it not work that way? I kind of expected LE to ask people to be on lookout for people who are missing clothes or came home in different clothes.

I would expect the perp(s) may have been spattered with blood. At the very least, I can't imagine them not stepping in it, leaving a footprint.

This crime strikes me as being impulsive and sloppy. There may have been some pre-planning, but I believe the overall rage factor overtook any calm and cool thinking as the murders were committed. The perp(s) may have thought they didn't leave evidence, but I find that difficult to believe.

Fitzgerald indicated they were in and out of there in four minutes, did he not? That's a really short time to shoot two people, take a young girl and leave, post haste.

Somewhere, there has to be evidence that the perp(s) left. A fingerprint, shoe imprint, hair, clothing fibers, something.

JMVHO.

 

[VeryVeritas]

I would expect the perp(s) may have been spattered with blood. At the very least, I can't imagine them not stepping in it, leaving a footprint.

This crime strikes me as being impulsive and sloppy. There may have been some pre-planning, but I believe the overall rage factor overtook any calm and cool thinking as the murders were committed. The perp(s) may have thought they didn't leave evidence, but I find that difficult to believe.

Fitzgerald indicated they were in and out of there in four minutes, did he not? That's a really short time to shoot two people, take a young girl and leave, post haste.

Somewhere, there has to be evidence that the perp(s) left. A fingerprint, shoe imprint, hair, clothing fibers, something.

JMVHO.

What if it wasn't rage? How would it look if the intent was shock n awe?

 

[crhedBngr]

What if it wasn't rage? How would it look if the intent was shock n awe?

Strong, very strong, emotions either way. Still, very irrational, and sloppy.

JMVHO.

 

[DancingMuse]

seems like there would have been opportunities where no one would be dead. Some said its not planned because casings left. If the gun is stolen, or bought on the black market, why care about casings?

4) They were p.o.'d about something... gambling debt, insult, getting fired, etc
5) It was a hit for something the parents did or was mistaken identity.

Good point, VeryVeritas,

I totally understand where you are coming from.
For the LONGEST, I was thinking this must be a case of #4 on your list. But the longer it goes on.....why no suspects? especially if it was someone who knew the Closses and was very angry at them? Most crimes are committed by people who know the victim, right?

But I am........now........Just tryin’ to wrap my mind around the dynamics of random home invasions.

As the weeks march on, ….It may turn out that the Unsubs did not know the Closs family at all. Or, how could the Unsubs not have been caught yet?

Unsub(s) could have little or no connection to the Closs family, and/or the community around Barron.

Here's one from South Carolina, NOT WISCONSIN: (I can't find what you asked for in Wisconsin.)

In reading about the HT <modsnip name> kidnapping (random/no known connection to the family), it seems that, outwardly, there are a lot of glaring differences when compared with Jayme’s disappearance:

a) More suburban, homes close together vs. rural, homes farther apart

b) HT <modsnip name> 4 years old vs. Jayme 13 years old

c) HT’s<modsnip name> mother survived SA and knife attack vs. Both of Jayme’s parents perished from firearms

d) Attack and Abducted in the morning before Noon vs. Attack and Abducted after midnight approx. 1:00 am​

However, there are a few characteristics of the HT <modsnip name> kidnapping listed below which MIGHT also have been evidenced in the Closs case:

1) A recently released career criminal (for some combination of violent crimes: armed robbery; drug involvement; assault, SA, etc.)

2) Use of a stolen car, or “borrowed” car, and/or use of several stolen vehicles in the commission of the crime.

3) The possibility of a “Push-in” crime. For example, someone following Jamie and her mother home in the afternoon, and “pushed into” the house after them. Or, James arrived home first, and it was done to him.

4) One child taken, seemingly “unhurt” during the invasion.​

You can see for yourself that both families were hardworking and of modest means. The HT <modsnip name> father was overseas on Coast Guard duty.

I’m sure LE has a lot of knowledge and statistics on the MO of violent random home invasions. I have full confidence that they will get that tip they need, and act on it.

HT <modsnip name> kidnapping details: (You can read for yourself and draw your own conclusions. I left out a lot !)

'Prayers Answered' Missing 4-year-old South Carolina Girl Found Safe

I still can’t figure out how the Perp chose the HT <modsnip name> home. And how the Unsubs in Wisconsin picked the Closs home. Any thoughts?

 

[Jax49]

I would expect the perp(s) may have been spattered with blood. At the very least, I can't imagine them not stepping in it, leaving a footprint.

This crime strikes me as being impulsive and sloppy. There may have been some pre-planning, but I believe the overall rage factor overtook any calm and cool thinking as the murders were committed. The perp(s) may have thought they didn't leave evidence, but I find that difficult to believe.

Fitzgerald indicated they were in and out of there in four minutes, did he not? That's a really short time to shoot two people, take a young girl and leave, post haste.

Somewhere, there has to be evidence that the perp(s) left. A fingerprint, shoe imprint, hair, clothing fibers, something.

JMVHO.

I hear it as:

"We have to realize they were probably only in that residence for four minutes. Or you know, we were there within four minutes, they were gone."

Then he talks about how much evidence would be left by someone being in a house for one minute or 25 minutes.

bbm

ETA: I'm not comfortable saying the sheriff really believes the crime only took four minutes. moo

 

[#Hayls]

Do employees at Jennie-O wear protective garments at the facility? Do employees regularly get animal blood on their clothing or protective outerwear?

 

[Whiskers16]

Are any photos of the victim allowed? I came across a social media account that shared photos that show a happier side of her personality perviously shown

Pictures must come from an allowed source. Some social media sources are allowed, like the victims' public SM pages (Jayme's fb, Denise's fb), posts by LE or MSM organizations, and posts by admins of public "Find ___" type facebook groups.

ETA- working on next thread.

 

[cluciano63]

I think the whole crime reflects an impulsive brain, i.e someone youngish. Maybe watched too much violent TV or video games...bang, bang, shoot ‘em up, go in blasting kind of thing. Lack of impulse control. That is why I lean toward a male under 25 or a mentally unstable person. But definitely male, imo. Taking Jayme may or may not have been part of the plan with this kind of guy.

 

[Whiskers16]

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