AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #23

[Gardener1850]

Since I'm on a Google StreetView kick today, I'll post this bit of oddness which is very likely an illusion. Keep in mind the StreetView photos of the house are from October 2016 so are two years old.

Here's the area of the deck at full Google resolution (which is low):

View attachment 155550

Here I've cropped it down to a smaller area but still at the same resolution:

View attachment 155551

Here I've had a program resample it to increase resolution to make it larger. Not really gaining true detail but just to make it larger and a bit smoother:

View attachment 155552

Note what appears to me to be a stack of picnic coolers, perhaps? The red things. Who needs that many? Maybe they're something else but they're not what I'm looking at. Doesn't that rather look like a person? Note the same set of StreetView images show no cars in the driveway. Here's my probable optical illusion outlined:

View attachment 155553

One could wonder if there was a long-time stalker. It's likely leaves near the Google camera that just make a nice illusion. But I am curious about the stack of coolers(?).

That is creepy and I hope it is an illusion. I couldn't see it at first, but after I saw the red outline I can't un-see the "person" standing there. Isn't that reddish area the sliding door? What is the white line through the center that makes it look like a window? Could it be the person's arm reaching up to the door? Maybe someone checking to see if the door was locked or trying to wiggle it out of the frame? I suppose it also could be innocent and someone visiting the family (if it is a person). The Google Street cameras catch a lot of random moments. JMO.

 

[doublestop]

In this article New Video Surveillance Search Expanded, Electronic Device Detecting K-9 Used in Jayme Closs Search it mentions that after the police found Jim and Denise dead, they didn't know if anyone else lived there until they contacted a school resource officer. I would think there would be a room that obviously belonged to a teenage girl, and if it was 1 am, very likely the bed was unmade, etc, so they wouldn't assume it was a kid who only lived with them part time. Thoughts?

 

[Mistermagoo]

How do we know that (spoiler alert: we don't).



no it only indicates no guns where seen lying around immediately when the cops got there.



we don't know that no one ever said this.

what your saying isn't crazy or anything I agree with some of it, I doubt is was JCs gun, but you are stating a bunch of stuff as know facts that isn't (at least to us).

Spoiler alert ?? Sorry, I thought we all had seen this

 

[JohnTate90210]

Not likely for the Closs house. Are they really coolers or just stacked plastic bins? I have needed that many, outside on the patio, full of everything that did not fit in a small house: painting stuff bin, electrical stuff bin for extension cords and Christmas lights, even the extra paper towels and toilet paper, and more. I didn't have a garage, but it seems like every garage here is stuffed with everything other than cars.

They do appear to be gone in recent photos (news photos shortly after the crime).

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

Turtle Lake casino does not have this. You can just walk in. While their surveillance isn't at the level of say MGM Grand in Vegas with stuff like biometric facial recognition, there are high resolution 360 cameras at every entrance and outside in the parking lot. It's pretty easy for a casino camera to capture the license plate of virtually any vehicle that comes into the parking lot.

As far as individuals that enter, they are always captured by the "eye in the sky". That is the black bubble looking things you can see if you look up at any gaming establishment in the US. Gaming law varies by state but typically requires every square inch of the gaming floor and entrance/exit ways to be easily accessible and recordable by surveillance footage and most states require casinos to maintain footage digitally for 6-12 months however many casinos keep it longer such as up to two years in case they are sued or need to sue in a monetary dispute. Cameras are not permitted in restrooms however they are immediately outside the restroom so the casino can track if someone goes in, do they come out. While less regulated, most US casinos have 360 cameras set up to cover their parking lot as well.

The "eye" is really a 360 panoramic camera that has multiple zoom features. Depending on the strength of the camera you can zoom down to the ground level and tell what kind of shoes a person is wearing if it's a live shot. If they are captured walking across the floor by watching back footage, options are more limited but you can still tell general physical features. Most cameras, even casino ones, can't take a piece of footage recorded previously of someone walking across the floor and zoom in to the level of detail where you can clearly see their face and all it's features. If you were watching that person live and they were standing still then you could.

Surveillance at a small tribal casino like Turtle Lake however isn't what you'd expect in Vegas. The Hollywood picture of dozens of trained guards and experts sitting in a NASA Mission Control like room zooming in and out of camera live shots is very misleading. Casinos spend millions on technology however much less on those watching.

It's very reactionary work - you wait for a call from a pit to either queue up footage from a recent happening or the pit suspects someone is doing something shady and wants more human eyes on them. For example, the pit will call up and say that "pit 5, table 3 BJ first base may be capping". This means that in pit five at the third table in the row, blackjack game, the player to the immediate left of the dealer and first to act each hand may be discreetly placing extra chips on winning bets to be paid more. I'll spare you the logistics of how this is accomplished but if you have a novice dealer, it's actually very easy to do. The surveillance folks would then zoom in on that table and player and watch them specifically for a period of time.

Getting a casino surveillance job at a place like Turtle Lake is relatively easy and you don't need much training to do so. Often on the "graveyard" shift (usually 2 AM-10 AM) you have 1-2 people viewing live footage. I've been told the late shift people are really there to just wait for a call from one of the pits or slot manager if there's something they need to focus on.

Otherwise, it's really sit there and stare at the screen and is an incredibly boring job as most surveillance people are those who have limited experience in the gaming or security industry as those positions are not well paid. Anyone who is a true expert can make a ton more money doing private consulting or going to work for a third party outsourcing firm.

Source: My own knowledge of casino surveillance from friends who work in the industry and I also work for the security provider for a major fitness brand in the US.

Thats is some excellent information! Thanks for taking the time to post it. Curious what your thoughts are, if you, have any in relationship to LE contacting casino.

 

[Le Singe]

Jmo testing DNA can simply mean they are testing various items to see whose DNA turns up, not that they know they have foreign/unknown DNA as yet. They remove items to see if they get lucky. Jmo

but they specifically said they were taking DNA from people they interview to rule them out, if they can rule you out with DNA it means they know what DNA rules you in.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Good morning Ocean! I can only speak for the post I wrote about JC and the casino last night. I am definitely not trying to place blame on JC. I hope it didn't sound as though I were and I tried to state as much in the post itself. The casino only came to mind after reading some casino post questions then a a half hour later hearing the brother's interview and his initial thoughts on "why" after receiving the news. I think the brain just tries to fit things together to make sense when there are no facts to be had. I know of people who go to casinos every week. Some have gotten in debt. I know of one person that was followed home after winning a great deal. They were beaten and robbed in their driveway. Had the perp followed them in the house (as opposed to the driveway) and harmed those sleeping in their beds, the fact that they were at a casino would be just a part of the scenario and in no way make it the victims fault. At least not in my eyes. As for some posts I have read I think people are just trying to figure out where JC was that day/evening as part of the puzzle. Anyway, I respect and appreciate your posts and wanted to clarify mine. Hope I said all that the way it was meant, with the greatest respect.

Oh honey I am so sorry if you took my post that way. I have such great respect for you too and for everyone on this forum.

In no way was anything directed toward you nor really anyone else either.

I just think theories should at least have some collaborative basis for them to be formalize especially since Jim is a victim of a cold blooded murder who has no ability to defend himself. That is just how 'I' look at all cases though..not just this one.

Others of course have the same right to look at cases anyway they wish to do it. I am just expressing my own opinions.

Yet here there hasn't been even a hint Jim even gambled or went to the casino.

Imo the reporters would have long found that out by now since this is such a small community.

Yet after almost a month not one person has said Jim was even a casino gambler or even gambled at all.

All we have been told is Jim worked 60 to 80 hours a week putting in long hard hours and he worked on 10.. 14.. 18. That doesnt leave a lot of free time. The only other thing we have learned about Jim's off time is he went to the gym.

I truly think the only reason the casino was even mentioned in the call log at all is because LE knew they would have camera footage of the road which could possibly show them what vehicles passed by right before and after the crimes had happened.

Imo if the casino had not been close by the murder scene location the casino wouldnt have even come up or been mentioned in the 911 call log ...imo

While I do understand your theory....I honestly do not understand the ones who say Jim had some kind of imaginary unknown gambling debt so high that its the reason he and Denise were murdered because of it and Jayme taken.

I have seen nothing whatsoever in almost a month's time that even begins to support that thinking.

I could understand it of course if someone said he was known to hang out at the casino gambling all the time on his off time but not one person who knows him has said even such a thing. None...that I am aware of...

That's all I am saying and I do understand people have been killed when they have won money or the lottery.

It happened to a young man in my own state who lived about 45 miles away from us. The man had won 140K on a stratch off ticket and of course it made the local news and a photo of the man and his name was in it

Iirc there were 2 suspects and they forced their way into his home one night demanding he give them the money he had won but he had already put it all in the bank.

They shot and murdered the poor man right in front of his wife and several of his young children. It was a heartbreaking case filled with evil and greed.

I just don't think that is the case here. Jmoo

 

[Gardener1850]

there is an interesting tidbit in this article

New Video Surveillance Search Expanded, Electronic Device Detecting K-9 Used in Jayme Closs Search



I think we can safely imply from that that they have DNA from the perp or at least think they do.

This makes sense. They usually take DNA and fingerprints from anyone who has been in the home in order to rule them out in the event of finding a suspects DNA. LE most likely have all the extended family DNA and any friends that have visited the home recently too. I really hope they have suspect DNA to compare. JMO.

 

[JohnTate90210]

But if you were growing meth in them, why on earth would you leave them in plain view on the front porch? Minimally, you'd think they'd be out back, or in the garage.

I doubt they were but the drug angle keeps popping up which is what made me think to search for any connection. If we follow that path, then maybe they weren't in use at the time of the photo?

A newer photo does show possibly two coolers(?) still on the balcony.



Just to the left of the door. A blue one on top of a red one. The older StreetView photo seems to show five and one of those was blue. So, where did the other three go? You can tell we're desperate for clues when discussing missing coolers!

 

[Curiousobserver]

but the specifically said they were taking DNA from people they interview to rule them out, if they can rule you out with DNA it means they know what DNA rules you in.

Bingo- they have a reference sample that are are sure comes from the perp.. he ate or drank something or left it some "other" way

 

[Le Singe]

Spoiler alert ?? Sorry, I thought we all had seen this

I appologize i had not listened all the way to the end you are right and i was totally wrong (it happens a lot).

 

[cluciano63]

but they specifically said they were taking DNA from people they interview to rule them out, if they can rule you out with DNA it means they know what DNA rules you in.

It is also taken for comparison against any DNA found in future. LE takes it while they can get it, imo, and hang onto,it.

 

[aliensporebomb]

So, in light of the revelation of having possession of Jayme's phone and actually where they found it, makes the earlier revelation ...



... all the more curious. Law enforcement has Denise's phone. They have Jayme's phone. I expect, but we don't know, that they have James' phone. So, what exactly were they looking for?

My working theory is that they were looking for some device that law enforcement had determined being utilized within the home based on cell records, internet provider records, or wi-fi device records/logs at some time prior to the events that took place October 15th and there was some expectation of finding the device in the home. The only things that come to mind are either a tablet or a phone - perhaps using wi-fi only in airplane mode.

I don't think they brought in the specialized K9 on a whim.

I had thought that bringing in the specialized K9 and then setting up surveillance cameras prior to very publicly announcing the scene was released (something we see rarely done) meant that law enforcement had some expectation that the person(s) responsible would return to the home to retrieve a particular device. Perhaps the two activities are not connected and were serving two separate purposes. I doubt it. But I find this to be a bit of a puzzle.

I had thought perhaps if Mr. Closs had a trail cam on the premises maybe they would bring a specialized search dog for that to try and find it - being that there is nobody around to ask where it is and it may have relevant photographs onboard its memory chip. But this also brings the possibility: did someone place an electronic bugging device or wifi-enabled camera of some sort at the Closs premises unbeknownst to them? Might it still be there?

 

[Mistermagoo]

I appologize i had not listened all the way to the end you are right and i was totally wrong (it happens a lot).

NP. Like I said, I just figured we all had seen it

 

[Mistermagoo]

I had seen another portion of the interview. Don't know if this has been put out there yet
Lots of photos of Jim and Jayme

 

[CuriousMaine]

further: ...a K-9 trained to sniff out chemicals from concealed electronic devices has been utilized. DNA testing has been done on dozens of people as a process of elimination. Jayme's cell phone was found in the home, plugged in in the kitchen and apps on it are being analyzed. Sheriff Fitzgerald also confirmed undisclosed properties have been searched-- a chair, mattress and front door are among some of the items seized as evidence.

What concealed electronic devices are they looking for? Jayme's phone and moms phone were recovered.

DNA testing was done- so they have a reference sample to compare to... and they collected the
mattress

BBM: Maybe a fitbit? She is a XC runner.

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

.

^^this

If something LE thought was significant occured at the casino IMO we would have seen them put out stills of video trying to identify people.

I'm not thinking big win though I did use it as an example in reference to a different matter. The timeline on this case has little to offer so I'm desperately grabbing at straws to place JC anywhere at anytime that day or night.

 

[WiseOwl]

Since I'm on a Google StreetView kick today, I'll post this bit of oddness which is very likely an illusion. Keep in mind the StreetView photos of the house are from October 2016 so are two years old.

Here's the area of the deck at full Google resolution (which is low):

View attachment 155550

Here I've cropped it down to a smaller area but still at the same resolution:

View attachment 155551

Here I've had a program resample it to increase resolution to make it larger. Not really gaining true detail but just to make it larger and a bit smoother:

View attachment 155552

Note what appears to me to be a stack of picnic coolers, perhaps? The red things. Who needs that many? Maybe they're something else but they're not what I'm looking at. Doesn't that rather look like a person? Note the same set of StreetView images show no cars in the driveway. Here's my probable optical illusion outlined:

View attachment 155553

One could wonder if there was a long-time stalker. It's likely leaves near the Google camera that just make a nice illusion. But I am curious about the stack of coolers(?).

Could they have used the coolers to store turkeys in? Maybe they got a lot of freebies due to the nature of their work?

 

[Le Singe]

It is also taken for comparison against any DNA found in future. LE takes it while they can get it, imo, and hang onto,it.

fair point.

 

[Curiousobserver]

Are you serious? When did anyone in the family have time to make meth on the back deck? James worked 80 hours weeks. Denise worked full time as well and Jayme is 13 and active in extracurriculars like dance and cross country running. People who live in a rural area often have coolers for keeping wild game in or for when they go fishing or for when they make a grocery trip to a far away store for perishable items not available in their immediate area. Owning more than one cooler is in no way suspicious. JMO.

Coolers on the back porch are not unusual at all- if you have a small house and need to store things, and you don't have a garage... And those are not airtight. Neither of them look like meth users even remotely