AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #23

[Trino]

Then he should have known, because where a victim was, and who they may have interacted with , is one of the most important questions that needs to be answered in any crime. If Fitzgerald doesn't know the answer to this basic question, then we are in big trouble.

JMO

ETA: And also, if Fitzgerald doesn't know whether James was at the Casino or not, doesn't that pretty much tell us that he wasn't at work ? I mean, Jennie O does have time clocks, or the equivalent, don't they ? He was either at work or he was somewhere else. Like I said, it's not rocket science. If Fitzgerald doesn't want to answer , why doesn't he just say so ? Why say he doesn't know ? Smells like bullspit to me.

You can bet there are cameras all over the inside of the casino. Investigators know. I would assume Fitzgerald would know what investigators know.

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

Just some info on the capabilities of electronic sniffing K9 dog for those interested.
These Police Dogs Sniff Out Electronic Devices

Also in reference to phone records, the cases I've seen referenced where phone companies fight to release information seem to involve a suspects phone as opposed to a murder victims phone. This article was a year prior to the latest Supreme Court ruling but seems to make sense even after reading the ruling.
"A cell phone at the scene of the crime that belongs to the deceased doesn’t need a warrant. Since the person isn’t alive there’s no concern about his privacy or finding evidence to use against him. Just like a person’s locked diary, it has potential evidence value and will be seized for that purpose. Police will take reasonable steps to open it without damage. A cell phone that’s secured with a password may be opened using software or equipment designed specifically for police use. In general, American courts hold that privacy concerns stop when a person dies. If the person was obviously murdered, the presumption is the deceased would want his killer found and prosecuted."
https://www.quora.com/Does-the-poli...urder-victims-phone-or-do-they-need-a-warrant

In reference to the latest SC ruling on access to cell phone data and emergencies:
"Chief Justice John G. Roberts Jr. wrote in his majority opinion that the decision "is a narrow one," and that it won't affect the ability to use location data for emergencies...."
Supreme Court rules police must have a warrant to track your cell phone
I think
Sorry if choppy or hard to follow. My screen keeps freezing.
MOO

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

You can bet there are cameras all over the inside of the casino. Investigators know. I would assume Fitzgerald would know what investigators know.

Definitely! Cameras are also on entrance and exit doors. It wouldn't be that difficult to view footage of people entering once a timeframe was narrowed down. Haven't been to a casino in the US for a while but I know the ones I have been to in Canada run your DL or ID through a scanner before allowing entrance. Anyone know if casinos in US do this?
ETA: spelling

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Good morning.

I am glad in one way the families are speaking out and in another way I cringe because everytime it happens every single word is critiqued with some putting their own spin on it instead of taking it at face value.

Imo Jim was at work that day just like his father said. Just because Denise's family said they believe he was at work doesnt mean they disbelieve it but this is what they have been told.

And why we are back discussing Jim going to the casino I have no clue. Did any of the family members who would know say this is true?

Of course the family members are aware of the rumors swirling on the internet and by those in the community who didn't know this family. So imo they simply addressed
those rumors about Jim may have been in financial difficulty. Not that any of it was remotely true. Just a hypothetical none of them know about.

Imo they have no clue how every word they have said will now be parsed and dissected like always.

I highly respect the theories of everyone but I have noticed from the beginning most theories involve Jim as somehow bringing this about on his family and himself.

Why is it always a male victim that gets most theories against him? That always seem to be the case when there are male and female victims involved. I have never really understood why that seems to be the consistent theme.

Imo there hasn't been one thing that supports Jim went to the casino much less has this unknown gambling debt so high it got him killed along with his wife and only daughter taken. Nor anything that supports somehow he is at fault.

If he regularly worked 60 to 80 hours a week it's very logical what time he had left was going to the gym and the rest of the time he spent at home relaxing and getting ready for another hard day at work. Imo

As far as what Mark Furhman said he did not misspeak. He is a very articulate man.

He clearly laid out why he believes Denise was the target and not Jim. He said if they came there for Jim the mission would have been completed when he was shot and killed at the front door and they would have left without ever entering the home but that did not happen. After Jim was eliminated the suspect purposefully entered the home to murder Denise.

That makes the most logical sense to me. It explains why things happened in the order they did. They were there to make sure Denise was dead and that is why they entered into the home.

If the target had been Jim the suspect could have left immediately without Denise even having a chance to see who it was.

And if Denise was the intended target it never means she did one thing wrong to bring this about either. Just like Jim had no blame in what happened

In fact someone may have become obsessed with her through no fault of her own.

Sometimes people cant be nice and friendly to certain people because they twist it into thinking they have other type of feelings for them than just friendship.

I know..its happened to me several times in my own life. I have even had stalkers even though I had no desire to be with any of them and politely told them so.

Jmo

 

[Mistermagoo]

One thing about the Kare11 video when they said that Jayme was alone in the mornings and they could have taken her without having to kill 2 people...... My thoughts on the time of the crime since the beginning, whether jayme was the target or not was that the darkness of the night along with the less cars traveled at that time of night were key to the perps. When looking at Google street view, you can pretty much get a great look at the whole property from the street during the day. Plus I think someone stated that there are 6000 cars per day that travel that road, so again, The darkness of the night is definitely an advantage.

 

[BlinkOfAnI]

Good morning.

I am glad in one way the families are speaking out and in another way I cringe because everytime it happens every single word is critiqued with some putting their own spin on it instead of taking it as face value.

Imo Jim was at work that day just like his father said. Just because Denise's family said they believe he was at work doesnt mean they disbelieve it but this is what they have been told.

And why we are back discussing Jim going to the casino I have no clue. Did any of the family members who would know say this is true?

Of course the family members are aware of the rumors swirling on the internet and by those in the community who didn't know this family. So imo they simply addressed
those rumors about Jim may have been in financial difficulty. Not that any of it was remotely true. Just a hypothetical none of them know about.

Imo they have no clue how every word they have said will now be parsed and dissected like always.

I highly respect the theories of everyone but I have noticed from the beginning most theories involve Jim as somehow bringing this about on his family and himself.

Why is it always a male victim that gets most theories against him? That always seem to be the case when there are male and female victims involved. I have never really understood why that seems to be the consistent theme.

Imo there hasn't been one thing that supports Jim went to the casino much less has this unknown gambling debt so high it got him killed along with his wife and only daughter taken. Nor anything that supports somehow he is at fault.

If he regularly worked 60 to 80 hours a week it's very logical what time he had left was going to the gym and the rest of the time he spent at home relaxing and getting ready for another hard day at work. Imo

As far as what Mark Furhman said he did not misspeak. He is a very articulate man.

He clearly laid out why he believes Denise was the target and not Jim. He said if they came there for Jim the mission would have been completed when he was shot and killed at the front door and they would have left without ever entering the home but that did not happen. After Jim was eliminated the suspect purposefully entered the home to murder Denise.

That makes the most logical sense to me. It explains why things happened in the order they did. They were there to make sure Denise was dead and that is why they entered into the home.

If the target had been Jim the suspect could have left immediately without Denise even having a chance to see who it was.

And if Denise was the intended target it never means she did one thing wrong to bring this about either. Just like Jim had no blame in what happened

In fact someone may have become obsessed with her through no fault of her own.

Sometimes people cant be nice and friendly to certain people because they twist it into thinking they have other type of feelings for them than just friendship.

I know..its happened to me several times in my own life. I have even had stalkers even though I had no desire to be with any of them and politely told them so.

Jmo

Good morning Ocean! I can only speak for the post I wrote about JC and the casino last night. I am definitely not trying to place blame on JC. I hope it didn't sound as though I were and I tried to state as much in the post itself. The casino only came to mind after reading some casino post questions then a a half hour later hearing the brother's interview and his initial thoughts on "why" after receiving the news. I think the brain just tries to fit things together to make sense when there are no facts to be had. I know of people who go to casinos every week. Some have gotten in debt. I know of one person that was followed home after winning a great deal. They were beaten and robbed in their driveway. Had the perp followed them in the house (as opposed to the driveway) and harmed those sleeping in their beds, the fact that they were at a casino would be just a part of the scenario and in no way make it the victims fault. At least not in my eyes. As for some posts I have read I think people are just trying to figure out where JC was that day/evening as part of the puzzle. Anyway, I respect and appreciate your posts and wanted to clarify mine. Hope I said all that the way it was meant, with the greatest respect.

 

[Nerissa]

Furhmans theory confuses me only in that if Denise was the target: why did they take Jayme?

 

[CuriousMaine]

Good morning.

I am glad in one way the families are speaking out and in another way I cringe because everytime it happens every single word is critiqued with some putting their own spin on it instead of taking it at face value.

Imo Jim was at work that day just like his father said. Just because Denise's family said they believe he was at work doesnt mean they disbelieve it but this is what they have been told.

And why we are back discussing Jim going to the casino I have no clue. Did any of the family members who would know say this is true?

Of course the family members are aware of the rumors swirling on the internet and by those in the community who didn't know this family. So imo they simply addressed
those rumors about Jim may have been in financial difficulty. Not that any of it was remotely true. Just a hypothetical none of them know about.

Imo they have no clue how every word they have said will now be parsed and dissected like always.

I highly respect the theories of everyone but I have noticed from the beginning most theories involve Jim as somehow bringing this about on his family and himself.

Why is it always a male victim that gets most theories against him? That always seem to be the case when there are male and female victims involved. I have never really understood why that seems to be the consistent theme.

Imo there hasn't been one thing that supports Jim went to the casino much less has this unknown gambling debt so high it got him killed along with his wife and only daughter taken. Nor anything that supports somehow he is at fault.

If he regularly worked 60 to 80 hours a week it's very logical what time he had left was going to the gym and the rest of the time he spent at home relaxing and getting ready for another hard day at work. Imo

As far as what Mark Furhman said he did not misspeak. He is a very articulate man.

He clearly laid out why he believes Denise was the target and not Jim. He said if they came there for Jim the mission would have been completed when he was shot and killed at the front door and they would have left without ever entering the home but that did not happen. After Jim was eliminated the suspect purposefully entered the home to murder Denise.

That makes the most logical sense to me. It explains why things happened in the order they did. They were there to make sure Denise was dead and that is why they entered into the home.

If the target had been Jim the suspect could have left immediately without Denise even having a chance to see who it was.

And if Denise was the intended target it never means she did one thing wrong to bring this about either. Just like Jim had no blame in what happened

In fact someone may have become obsessed with her through no fault of her own.

Sometimes people cant be nice and friendly to certain people because they twist it into thinking they have other type of feelings for them than just friendship.

I know..its happened to me several times in my own life. I have even had stalkers even though I had no desire to be with any of them and politely told them so.

Jmo

All following is MOO:

Then applying Mr. Fuhrman's own logic, if DC was the target, the perp could have fled after DC was deceased. Why mess with taking Jayme if they completed their supposed mission?

And if DC made that 911 call after both she and James were shot (I think it's possible she did); that would more likely indicate DC wasn't the target, or at least killing DC wasn't the main objective. More likely she was a witness and an obstacle in the way of their target.

MOO: With all due respect to you and Mr. Fuhrman.

 

[Mandrew]

I cannot buy Sheriff Fitzgerald doesn't know if any of the family members, even extended members of the family were at the casino. Certainly the casino knows. The employees would've been scouring that footage just out of curiosity, and would've reported seeing any of the family members. He has to know.

 

[mama sleuth]

I am of the opinion that Jayme was told to RUN when everything went down and she was caught outside. The easiest/quickest way for the perp(s) to contain the situation at that point would be to put her in the car and GO. I do not believe she was the intended target. IMO

 

[Zelda1010]

Hmm, we haven't seen this verified by LE, but this article also says Denise was in the bathroom. Seems to me only Radar and Daily Mail reported it before and so I haven't personally run with the theory before.

New Video Surveillance Search Expanded, Electronic Device Detecting K-9 Utilized in Jayme Closs Search


When Barron County deputies arrived four minutes later, they found the door appeared to have been kicked in and a male who answered the door, was down. There were multiple spent rounds nearby. As authorities made their way farther into the home, they came across a second person down. It was Denise and she was in the bathroom.

 

[TeaTime]

It wouldn't be the first time a young lover killed the parents to run away with the minor daughter.

It wouldn't be the first time a young lover on SM turned out to be a perverted old guy cat fishing a child.

 

[CuriousMaine]

I cannot buy Sheriff Fitzgerald doesn't know if any of the family members, even extended members of the family were at the casino. Certainly the casino knows. The employees would've been scouring that footage just out of curiosity, and would've reported seeing any of the family members. He has to know.

Absolutely agree. I think in some areas he's given a small, limited variety of avoidance-answers to questions from media. Answers in particular that are part of the investigation, and would only serve to be an advantage to a (future) defense team.

 

[Bluepopsicle]

Good morning.

He clearly laid out why he believes Denise was the target and not Jim. He said if they came there for Jim the mission would have been completed when he was shot and killed at the front door and they would have left without ever entering the home but that did not happen. After Jim was eliminated the suspect purposefully entered the home to murder Denise.

That makes the most logical sense to me. It explains why things happened in the order they did. They were there to make sure Denise was dead and that is why they entered into the home.

If the target had been Jim the suspect could have left immediately without Denise even having a chance to see who it was.
Jmo

RSBM

That is one theory, certainly. But I don’t think that means we can rule out that the target was James either....someone could have been in a blind rage and wanted to take him out, and upon seeing Denise, decided to take out the witness as well. Denise and Jayme could just as easily have been collateral damage.

And same thing if the target was Jayme all along. I fail to see how the apparent order of things proves in any way what the perp was there for.

JMO

 

[Mistermagoo]

I am of the opinion that Jayme was told to RUN when everything went down and she was caught outside. The easiest/quickest way for the perp(s) to contain the situation at that point would be to put her in the car and GO. I do not believe she was the intended target. IMO

i was just thinking the same thing

That could also explain why house wasn't robbed. 911 call was made, witness on the run, had to get out.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

Then he should have known, because where a victim was, and who they may have interacted with , is one of the most important questions that needs to be answered in any crime. If Fitzgerald doesn't know the answer to this basic question, then we are in big trouble.

JMO

ETA: And also, if Fitzgerald doesn't know whether James was at the Casino or not, doesn't that pretty much tell us that he wasn't at work ? I mean, Jennie O does have time clocks, or the equivalent, don't they ? He was either at work or he was somewhere else. Like I said, it's not rocket science. If Fitzgerald doesn't want to answer , why doesn't he just say so ? Why say he doesn't know ? Smells like bullspit to me.

First Fitzgerald is not going to admit knowing anything other than what his team has decided best to release. He can lie and deny to protect the integrity of this investigation. It’s extremely important that he do so.

My educated guess is that they know much more than they are sharing. And it’s police procedure. If Jayme is alive it may keep her alive.

 

[daisy6441]

So now the family is stating that Jayme was left alone at home. She said like when she was waiting for the bus but it sounds like probably other times too. If she was being watched because she was the objects of someone's obsession then it seems like it wouldn't be too hard to figure that out and approach her when she was alone. If there are trees all around the house they could have sat out there and watched through the windows until they decided on the best time. No need to kick in a door and have to face two adults when you could wait until they weren't there. Also, if she had a "secret boyfriend" he would have known that too because she probably would have talked to him while the parents weren't there.
Perhaps the caretaker was just someone who drove her to practice or such when the parents couldn't. Otherwise, Jayme would just go home on the bus and let herself in to wait until her parents got home. Not that unusual for a 13 year old. They also James worked 60-80 hours a week. No mention of Denise but I guess we are assuming she works at least 40 hours. The caretaker could have been taking her to dentist/doctor's appointments, practices (or picking her up), or track meets.

 

[Mistermagoo]

It was noted on another site that the Closs home was the first house with a driveway after the previous intersection and would be used for people to turn around that missed their turn. Don't know how much of that is true except for the fact that using Google street view it is the 1st driveway after the intersection.

 

[JohnTate90210]

Good morning.

I am glad in one way the families are speaking out and in another way I cringe because everytime it happens every single word is critiqued with some putting their own spin on it instead of taking it at face value.

Imo Jim was at work that day just like his father said. Just because Denise's family said they believe he was at work doesnt mean they disbelieve it but this is what they have been told.

And why we are back discussing Jim going to the casino I have no clue. Did any of the family members who would know say this is true?

Of course the family members are aware of the rumors swirling on the internet and by those in the community who didn't know this family. So imo they simply addressed
those rumors about Jim may have been in financial difficulty. Not that any of it was remotely true. Just a hypothetical none of them know about.

Imo they have no clue how every word they have said will now be parsed and dissected like always.

I highly respect the theories of everyone but I have noticed from the beginning most theories involve Jim as somehow bringing this about on his family and himself.

Why is it always a male victim that gets most theories against him? That always seem to be the case when there are male and female victims involved. I have never really understood why that seems to be the consistent theme.

Imo there hasn't been one thing that supports Jim went to the casino much less has this unknown gambling debt so high it got him killed along with his wife and only daughter taken. Nor anything that supports somehow he is at fault.

If he regularly worked 60 to 80 hours a week it's very logical what time he had left was going to the gym and the rest of the time he spent at home relaxing and getting ready for another hard day at work. Imo

As far as what Mark Furhman said he did not misspeak. He is a very articulate man.

He clearly laid out why he believes Denise was the target and not Jim. He said if they came there for Jim the mission would have been completed when he was shot and killed at the front door and they would have left without ever entering the home but that did not happen. After Jim was eliminated the suspect purposefully entered the home to murder Denise.

That makes the most logical sense to me. It explains why things happened in the order they did. They were there to make sure Denise was dead and that is why they entered into the home.

If the target had been Jim the suspect could have left immediately without Denise even having a chance to see who it was.

And if Denise was the intended target it never means she did one thing wrong to bring this about either. Just like Jim had no blame in what happened

In fact someone may have become obsessed with her through no fault of her own.

Sometimes people cant be nice and friendly to certain people because they twist it into thinking they have other type of feelings for them than just friendship.

I know..its happened to me several times in my own life. I have even had stalkers even though I had no desire to be with any of them and politely told them so.

Jmo

Didn't the casino get a mention in the 911 logs? If so, I'd say that's how that angle has come into so much discussion. But if James had a nice win and was followed, then video would likely have revealed it already. If he beat somebody at poker, they'd know who, too. If there was any unusual encounter at the casino, it would have been easily solved by now. It just seems the casino angle is grasping at straws. Seems like it's a 15 minute drive from the house so not much time for something to even happen along the way. One little wayside pullover spot but I don't see him pulling in there for any reason unless flagged down for some reason.

 

[daisy6441]

I am one of two people on my road with a circle drive and I have had people use it to turn around before. That isn't surprising that people might be pulling in there when they realize they missed their turn.