AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #25

[1987]

I wish we knew whether or not the Closs' had any firearms that are unaccounted for/missing. Anybody seen anything in MSM addressing this?

le has said no firearms from closs home missing.

 

[bellyup]

That's a negative, Randazzo...IMO, robbery was not the motive. I'm interested to know whether or not there are missing firearms from the home because if so, it could be the murder weapon, which would make the theory of the crime different, again JMO.

All guns owned by James are accounted for according to LE. Also nothing else has been reported missing.

 

[girlhasnoname]

IIRC it was mentioned that James owned 3 guns that were known to be kept in a safe and were accounted for. Fitzgerald said the perp(s) brought a weapon to the scene.

 

[GordianKnot]

le has said no firearms from closs home missing.

Thanks, 1987!

 

[Rubiconbob]

I have seen no door pics that look like was shot at all.moo. I did see door pics where part of the door is visable but no whole door or even a part enough to say shot or not. there was a example posted here that was a white door but it was just a example.

Think your right. Going off first reports. But original reports said kicked or shot in
I am not certain

 

[rosesfromangels]

Interesting. Thanks for the perspective. This could have been random, but I still think they knew Jayme was in the home.

As a Wiccan who has participated in hundreds of "pagan rituals" (and observed even more) over the years, I always find it interesting when this becomes a theory in a murder case. Because despite the fact that the only injuries I've ever seen have been accidental (and mostly from candle flames or stumbling around in the dark), Satanic or pagan ritual has come up in almost every murder case I have ever followed. I blame the Satanic Panic of the 1980s, as well as the somewhat confusing fluid definition of what "pagan" really means. (The Wiccan rede is literally "harm none.")

Yes, pagan rituals are often mentioned in murder cases. That aside, the case I referenced-Jane Britton- did have elements of what appeared to be ritualistic sacrifice.
But you are right, it’s rare, very.

I do not see any evidence of this in Jayme’s case, but do see the strong possibility of a revenge act. And, of course, random wacko is always a possibility too.

 

[Randazzo]

That's a negative, Randazzo...IMO, robbery was not the motive. I'm interested to know whether or not there are missing firearms from the home because if so, it could be the murder weapon, which would make the theory of the crime different, again JMO.

LE has been silent on the type of firearm and as far as I know the distance and location of the shots. It's entirely possible one or more of the family's own weapons was used and taken. Even if that didn't happen, it sounds like the weapon was not left at the scene so if LE comes across it in the future and runs ballistics they could match it.

 

[GordianKnot]

All guns owned by James are accounted for according to LE. Also nothing else has been reported missing.

Thanks, belly-up! So JC either did not have enough time or did not perceive enough of a threat to go retrieve his weapons from the safe...interesting.

 

[lonetraveler]

Thank you! I rounded up, 8 minutes. 7+ minutes between the time that police were alerted to a problem, and police arrival at the scene. That's significant.

Did the Sheriff say this happened in a "short time, and did he say that "short time" could be 4 minutes? What is a "short time" for a home invasion? 4 minutes? 15 hours? Between ear witness gunshots and 911 call, it seems like this lasted 25 minutes, not 4 or 8.

I'm not assuming that someone was prowling around outside the house, coming to the front door, dad getting up to see what's going on, dad getting shot through the door, the door being kicked in, mom being shot, mom being found in the bathroom, someone getting to a phone, someone making the call. It's a bit like a car accident where you slow down and can't look away.

I think the 25 minutes timeline is most likely.

The suspect should be thankful that that he got away with it and that Jayme is a kind child.

I've always looked at the timeline as follows: The actual kicking in the door and firing the shot that took the father out took only a few seconds, then immediately the mother was shot, then perp found and grabbed Jayme and maybe had her grab a coat or shoes or something, on the way out, the perp discovered that the mother had her phone had he kicked the phone out of her hand and it landed wherever it landed. During the discovery of the mother having the phone, the dispatcher heard the commotion (yelling, screaming etc.) until the phone landed and shut off. Perp took off with Jayme. This could very well cover the 25 minutes. JMO

 

[Jabarn]

when a phone gets disconnected there is a message. Is the message noted in the dispatcher report?

If it was cut, there would be no disconnect message

I don’t feel it’s been satisfactorily explained whether there was a landline phone in the past or when the crime went down. If there was one, the lines may have been cut, which sounds so outlandish, I am having a hard time typing it. I am off here tonight. Hopefully, there will be breaking news soon.

 

[Jethro4WS]

I understand. So it's more likely that the landline was no longer used, but the phone number was still registered to them and the house.

Hadn't they recently moved to the area? It's odd that they would set up the phone account and then disconnect it.

The Closs' owned that home since 2001.

 

[Jethro4WS]

I wish we knew whether or not the Closs' had any firearms that are unaccounted for/missing. Anybody seen anything in MSM addressing this?

Relatives Plead for Vigilance as They Share Profound Loss of Closs Family

Fitzgerald confirmed Jim owned three guns and they were located in the home, but were not used in the crime, which means someone else murdered the couple and likely took off with Jayme.

 

[Yvettea]

Fitzgerald confirmed Jim owned three guns and they were located in the home, but were not used in the crime, which means someone else murdered the couple and likely took off with Jayme.

This is a strange quote. The fact that all James’ guns were accounted for doesn’t mean no one else in the house could have committed the crime. Someone other than James could have had a gun.

 

[girlhasnoname]

Family of missing Wisconsin teen Jayme Closs shares story weeks after disappearance

A comment by Denise's sister in this interview interested me:

They believe the attack was targeted and planned. Family members recently returned to the Closs house in search for answers of their own.

“It brought up more questions for us,” Suzi said.

Wonder what about the scene would raise more questions??

Also, still strange to me are the two teenage girls who lived in another town driving by the crime scene multiple times at 2:00 am less than an hour after LE arrived. I personally don't buy the scanner theory so unless they had a legitimate reason to be in the area on that particular night seems suspicious. IDK

 

[doktor57]

I wonder if the Closs family had any work done around the home recently? Isn't that how Elizabeth Smart was first noticed and targeted by her abductor?

 

[bellyup]

Thanks, belly-up! So JC either did not have enough time or did not perceive enough of a threat to go retrieve his weapons from the safe...interesting.

That's assuming they were even in a safe.
I'm more inclined to think they weren't. As others have said, guns are a way of life in rural areas. Aside from bears and coyotes, this area has a meth/heroin problem. It's also extremely close to a reservation that has a D/F crime rating (mostly for property theft issues).

I think it's fairly likely that James kept his gun nearby or even on him the majority of the time. He may have even had it when he went to the door that night but wasn't expecting the immediate shot from the perp.

AND if James was shot through the door as has been speculated we can be sure that the perp thought he would be armed. It was shoot or be shot. That's taking big risks for a perp. Bigger risks than I think most pedophiles who want a little girl are willing to take just to "get the girl".

 

[mikeh]

Maybe the revenge isn’t on Denise & James though.
Who suffers from their deaths?
Who suffers not knowing where Jayme is?

A Grandparent?

 

[Warwick7]

Just in case you hadn't seen it:

A month after Jayme Closs vanished, the feeling in her hometown is 'very dark'

All three cells were in the house
and
James cell produced no boyfriend.

 

[Reverie]

You may be on to something. From what I'm reading about home invasions, they are usually committed by more than one person and they use multiple means of entrance to the home. So while one is knocking on the door, another comes in through a side or back door. With that scenario it makes sense that James may have realized what was happening, tried to shut the door, but someone else came in through another means and James' attention was diverted.
Here's an article that talks about it.
Protecting Your Family from a Violent Home Invasion

Multiple perps are utilized in less sophisticated crimes too...such as a simple robbery when they think no one is home. Happened to my father just before he left for our cabin one Friday night. One man rang the doorbell and asked a fake name, while the other two kept watch on the two opposite street corners, a half block away. My Dad told us they looked like they were from someplace else-very different style clothing / shoes. My little teen sister had befriended a troubled youth at church who quickly learned that our house was empty every weekend while we visited our cabin. Ugh.

I hope that if a passerby noticed anything, they would share it with LE. Good to remember that loose lips may sink ships on the home front; but the same (with LE) has the power to bring Jayme safely home.

 

[otto]

I've always looked at the timeline as follows: The actual kicking in the door and firing the shot that took the father out took only a few seconds, then immediately the mother was shot, then perp found and grabbed Jayme and maybe had her grab a coat or shoes or something, on the way out, the perp discovered that the mother had her phone had he kicked the phone out of her hand and it landed wherever it landed. During the discovery of the mother having the phone, the dispatcher heard the commotion (yelling, screaming etc.) until the phone landed and shut off. Perp took off with Jayme. This could very well cover the 25 minutes. JMO

I'm inclined to agree with the other time line that has been suggested - where the neighbor misread the time. I'm thinking that given everything that has been said, including the description of the entire event happening in a short time, the time was probably 12:51 rather than 12:31.

 

[Confusion]

Another unlikely idea came to me today, but everything in this case seems unlikely. So many people talk about how smart they think this guy is, and it got me thinking. What if he had a problem with one of the parents, but was afraid that doing something against that person alone might make it too easy to figure out who was responsible. Killing both parents might make it a little harder to figure out, but still not hard enough. Killing all three would still make it appear that there was a conflict with someone responsible, and could lead back to this person. Because of that, he decided to kill the parents and take Jayme so it would appear that she was the target. He could have killed her, or he could have taken her somewhere far away and dropped her off in a place where she'd be likely to be picked up by a pedophile/trafficker/whatever or where she'd likely perish before getting any help. I've been trying to come up with something that would make sense of both the murders and the abduction. There are easier ways (and much less messy) to abduct a young girl if that was the goal, but it would make no sense to keep a witness alive if the murder was the goal; this is the only possibility I can think of that can be discussed here. MOO