AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #25

[Oakland CA]

Two shots is "multiple shots" No?

Yep. Only two shots.
Both spent casings seen by LE at front door.

First bullet hit James at door
Second bullet went through house, made a right (and/or left) turn into the room Denise was in, and hit her.

 

[kkdj]

Yep. Only two shots.
Both spent casings seen by LE at front door.

First bullet hit James at door
Second bullet went through house, made a right (and/or left) turn into the room Denise was in, and hit her.

Did you read or hear this somewhere?

 

[Mistermagoo]

Did you read or hear this somewhere?

The magic bullet

 

[kkdj]

The magic bullet

 

[Evinrude]

Maybe mom managed to wound the perp and blood spattered on Jayme or her clothes? That might be a good enough reason to take her and deal with her later? If that did happen, I sure hope police found some of his blood... and can match it somehow to someone!

That might make sense. If blood or matter got on Jayme, perp May have found bucket and mop, perhaps some bleach and cleaned up the floor for anything that didn’t land on Jayme. He/she told Jayme to stay put while they cleaned. I just don’t think Jayme would have stayed put and besides, they may have known that a 911 call was made. That would be some “hyper” cleaning.
Anything is possible.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Yep. Only two shots.
Both spent casings seen by LE at front door.

First bullet hit James at door
Second bullet went through house, made a right (and/or left) turn into the room Denise was in, and hit her.

Think your close.. or that scenario is close..

People keep thinking about this house likes it’s split level 5 bedroom house...

It’s very small house about size of double wide trailer...door entryway could be as far as perp went... would make sense.. neighbor said second shot louder ??

How is second shot louder if he didn’t fire first halfway in doorway to James... second 30 sec later backed up 1 feet into Denise either helping James or moving away.

If he’s down hall or 8 ft in house. Wouldn’t sound be down 25 percent to neighbors??

Dunno. Need ballistics guru to confirm.

 

[Evinrude]

That might make sense. If blood or matter got on Jayme, perp May have found bucket and mop, perhaps some bleach and cleaned up the floor for anything that didn’t land on Jayme. He/she told Jayme to stay put while they cleaned. I just don’t think Jayme would have stayed put and besides, they may have known that a 911 call was made. That would be some “hyper” cleaning.
Anything is possible.

The other thing, while letting the hot water heat up in the sink to scrub the floor where he/she may have bled, a thought came to me, did perp have to look for a flash light to see? No one has yet discussed ( maybe I missed it) if the lights were on when LE arrived on scene. LE May have approached scene with their own flash light.

 

[Lillymac]

Yep. Only two shots.
Both spent casings seen by LE at front door.

First bullet hit James at door
Second bullet went through house, made a right (and/or left) turn into the room Denise was in, and hit her.

I want some of those bullets. You can't miss using them. Ha ha!!!

 

[photographer4]

Yep. Only two shots.
Both spent casings seen by LE at front door.

First bullet hit James at door
Second bullet went through house, made a right (and/or left) turn into the room Denise was in, and hit her.

Thank you. That sounds like a reasonable explanation and was exactly what I was wondering. I see now how its possible the neighbours heard only two shots, and there were multiple spent rounds at the front entry. Maybe Denise was hit by a bullet shot from the front entry. That would explain multiple rounds spent.

 

[Evinrude]

Did you read or hear this somewhere?

I did read that the military has been testing such bullets that can change course.
Makes sense that perp May have military background.
US Army tests self guided 'smart bullets' that grant perfect accuracy | Daily Mail Online

 

[photographer4]

I did read that the military has been testing such bullets that can change course.
Makes sense that perp May have military background.
US Army tests self guided 'smart bullets' that grant perfect accuracy | Daily Mail Online

Damn.

 

[Charliegizmo49]

I did not interpret the sherrif’s comments to mean the assailants were on property for only a few minutes. I know some did, but I believe he was trying to state that LE arrived within four minutes of the call. Also, the neighbor’s clock being off by seven minutes was taken into account. Without throwing speculation into the mix, nearly 25 minutes elapsed between the neighbors hearing shots and the the open line 911 call.

SN I agree. The only thing regarding killers is that they were gone when LE arrived. We know something was happening at the time of 911 call.

We know there was a call/text at about 10 between DC and sister. If a text then we don’t know who actually authored text.

If a call then we know all was ok.

But there is nothing that indicates the amount of time the killers were in that house. Nothing that has been made public.

And there may not be for a good long time. I get rather discouraged explaining that LE HAS NO LEGAL OBLIGATION TO MAKE ANY EVIDENCE PUBLIC. PERIOD END OF QUERY QUESTION. some parts may be released if it may help stimulate attention or tips coming in again. But this is being managed by the book and until something comes up again it will probably remain that way.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Whenever you hear stories of abducted women, very rarely is it someone known to them. Think of Molly Tibbetts. I honestly think that if this was personal, LE would have found them long ago. People don't keep disputes quite, other people always know. With the amount of attention put on this family not one story has come out to indicate any kind of issues. The Closs's seem like hard working, family oriented people. No indication of drug issues, criminal activity, gambling. or anything else.

To me this appears to be the act of a random stranger. A drifter maybe. A possible drug user. Maybe it's a case of mistaken identity. Unfortunately these are the hardest crimes to solve.

That makes sense... drifter or drug use could have done work on house before or driven/walked by house before... plus drifter/drug user missing for 2 days wouldn’t seem odd to those around them.

Or drifter/drug user completely botches home invasion in 30 seconds and kills 2 people.

If it’s random... like mollie t.... gonna be hard catch..

 

[bellyup]

Whenever you hear stories of abducted women, very rarely is it someone known to them. Think of Molly Tibbetts. I honestly think that if this was personal, LE would have found them long ago. People don't keep disputes quite, other people always know. With the amount of attention put on this family not one story has come out to indicate any kind of issues. The Closs's seem like hard working, family oriented people. No indication of drug issues, criminal activity, gambling. or anything else.

To me this appears to be the act of a random stranger. A drifter maybe. A possible drug user. Maybe it's a case of mistaken identity. Unfortunately these are the hardest crimes to solve.

I think they have a good idea of who or possibly a couple of suspicions (based on Denise’s brother saying he has a gut feeling) ... now they just have to prove it. With no forensics linking the person or evidence they can’t just start accusing, searching and arresting. They also aren’t going to tell the public “Well, this one guy had an argument... with Denise/James/The Family.”

That would tip him off that they are on to him.
They are waiting for the perp to make a mistake. Or that one piece of evidence that allows them to get a search warrant on him.

I can’t find any random scenario in which you take the 13 yo rather than kill her and dispose quickly. Or random scenario in which police won’t say abduction, won’t say left willingly but will only say they believe she’s in danger.

Only 1/100th of a percent of children are taken by complete stranger.

 

[Glaciersnow]

I’m with you.. think could be druggie.. but they would screw something up you think..

I can understand no fingerprints... wear gloves..easy... no footprints is bizarre to me. Likely proof that crime was 2 loud gunshots, one dead instantly, one quickly there after, and all over in 2/3 minutes.

I know I’m reaching here... or tired... but is it possible perp doesn’t even enter home ??

Shots both in entryway...jayme runs out back to another perp or chased down by same perp...

Also, I’m thinking how on earth no shoe prints... jayme was in hospital... doctors/doc assistants nurses are in out covered shoes...

Meat inspector likely are in them a lot also..

It’s a reach....here is photo... done for nite

Yes, the hospital is definitely an interesting idea, IMO. Maybe some hospital worker became obsessed with her during her stay, maybe they even had a fling. She was in hospital short before the tragedy, wasn't she? JMO.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Yes, the hospital is definitely an interesting idea, IMO. Maybe some hospital worker became obsessed with her during her stay, maybe they even had a fling. She was in hospital short before the tragedy, wasn't she? JMO.

I think so... hospital worker is unlikely I’m just trying to figure out why no footprints..
I’ve dealt with a lot of nurses / docs. They always have these on..but there are common in no of fields..

 

[Lillymac]

I did read that the military has been testing such bullets that can change course.
Makes sense that perp May have military background.
US Army tests self guided 'smart bullets' that grant perfect accuracy | Daily Mail Online

I have read that too. It was several years ago, so I'm sure it's possible to have those now, but improbable they can be purchased by just anyone.

 

[Rubiconbob]

I think they have a good idea of who or possibly a couple of suspicions (based on Denise’s brother saying he has a gut feeling) ... now they just have to prove it. With no forensics linking the person or evidence they can’t just start accusing, searching and arresting. They also aren’t going to tell the public “Well, this one guy had an argument... with Denise/James/The Family.”

That would tip him off that they are on to him.
They are waiting for the perp to make a mistake. Or that one piece of evidence that allows them to get a search warrant on him.

I can’t find any random scenario in which you take the 13 yo rather than kill her and dispose quickly. Or random scenario in which police won’t say abduction, won’t say left willingly but will only say they believe she’s in danger.

Only 1/100th of a percent of children are taken by complete stranger.

I can’t figure this out ... if they have suspects can they get cell records or not...

I know Supreme Court came down against that based on 4th amendment. Some states allow cell records instant access based on Abduction.. I didn’t know if anyone knew... Wisconsin law ...can they obtain the 5 local towers or is that all red tape ??

 

[SeattleStew]

I think so... hospital worker is unlikely I’m just trying to figure out why no footprints..
I’ve dealt with a lot of nurses / docs. They always have these on..but there are common in no of fields..

I have been thinking about how some medical workers and food production workers wear PPE such as paper shoe cover/booties, hair coverings, and disposable gloves. That type of garb would limit DNA exposure of the wearer.

 

[Evinrude]

I have read that too. It was several years ago, so I'm sure it's possible to have those now, but improbable they can be purchased by just anyone.

I was being sarcastic, sorry. Munition is still in early stages of testing and no where near available to even front line forces yet.