AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #25

[bellyup]

Thank you everyone that has clarified for me.
I wasn't here early on in the case and while I read through all the threads before I jumped in, reading them after the fact with removed posts / updated news stories sometimes make things harder to follow.

I'm back to my original theory.

Though I am newly informed with the patio door being immediately outside of Jayme's bedroom as that wasn't at all what I had been picturing.

 

[PommyMommy]

Do you have a quote or link that indicates the sheriff believed she was in the home based on hearing Jayme on the 911 call? Because I've seen /heard nothing like that. He's been incredibly tight lipped about what was heard on the 911 call and I haven't heard any indication AT ALL of WHO was heard.

He also clearly states in the radio interview that a reason for the delay in the amber alert was determining that Jayme wasn't elsewhere (friends / families house) and yes that they had no car description.

If she WAS heard on the 911 call there would be no reason to have to eliminate the possibility that she was elsewhere.

Sheriff: Jayme Closs's parents victims of homicide; no gun found
Sheriff Chris Fitzgerald said Wednesday that he believed Jayme Closs was home when James and Denise Closs were shot to death based on evidence found at the scene and a 911 call placed early Monday morning.

"Some of it from that 911 call, and some of it part of that active investigation," Fitzgerald says.

OMO, but I don't know how much credence I want to give to the clothing bandit's answers. It makes little sense to me that there'd be a bedroom to the IMMEDIATE right of the sliding doors. It makes MORE sense that he entered, proceeded TOWARD the bedrooms, and found Jayme's bedroom on the right. Based on MY best guess, I place all the sleeping quarters above the tuck under garage. I think the sliding doors very like open to a dining area.

Somebody who knows construction could probably tell us with ease where the kitchen and bathrooms are based on roof vents.

This is a theoretical floor plan by AbbeyBabbey, an appraiser who has inspected, measured and sketched thousands of houses. Her rendition of a possible floor plan is based on her experience, her knowledge of Construction Industry Standards, known facts in this case and pictures/videos/aerial views of the house.

From Thread 13 AMBER ALERT - WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #13:

 

[bellyup]

This is a theoretical floor plan by AbbeyBabbey, an appraiser who has sketched thousands of floor plans.

From Thread 13 AMBER ALERT - WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #13:
View attachment 156946

Thank you for the quotes. I've already stated I was confused because of the sheriffs comments in the radio interview but understand now.

I find the theoretical floor plan interesting but based on the Kyle Janeke's police report it wouldn't be accurate as Jayme's room was immediately to the right of the patio door on the east end.

I'd also assume that the double picture window in the front of the home is the original living room (though absolutely could have been converted to something else at some point).

 

[photographer4]

They never said she was heard on the 911 call, just that the evidence from the call helped them to determine she was there. It may have been someone calling her name, or her screaming, or something that indicates she was there. What makes the most sense is that they identified her voice or the sound of her voice. What else could it be?
The 911 call had nothing to do with the Amber Alert or determing whether or not she was in the home that night. They knew a child lived there and had to make a series of calls to make sure she was indeed missing from the home. They could not have possibly determined that by the 911 call, they had not used the technology to perfect the sound quality yet. That information came several days later. Imo

If mom or dad called out her name or a perp did that would indicate she was there. Or if perp demanded to know where she was that may. But if perp asked her whereabouts then LE wouldn’t be so stumped on whether this was random or not.

 

[PommyMommy]

Thank you for the quotes. I've already stated I was confused because of the sheriffs comments in the radio interview but understand now.

I find the theoretical floor plan interesting but based on the Kyle Janeke's police report it wouldn't be accurate as Jayme's room was immediately to the right of the patio door on the east end.

I'd also assume that the double picture window in the front of the home is the original living room (though absolutely could have been converted to something else at some point).

I don't think "off to the right" (from the police report) necessarily means "immediately to the right." MOO
http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/Kyle+Jaenke+Annis+Complaint.pdf

 

[oceanblueeyes]

They aren't what I'd call elderly, older than the Closs parents, but they don't strike me as doddering old folks who don't remember what happened a few hours before. I found the podcast that goes with the CNN transcript from Ashleigh Banfield. The transcript has lots of small errors in it. I think the audio is clearer in what is meant. One kind of big error in the transcript is the mention of a boat. The neighbor never says anything about the boat. I've also seen some posters saying they think there may have been a mistake in the transcript that changed her stated time from 12:58 to 12:38, but she clearly states the time as being 12:30-ish when they went to bed, and 12:38 when they heard the shots and she looked at the clock. The part that I find interesting is that she says she was out and about at 1:00-ish and saw and heard nothing. I wonder if the Closs' driveway is visible from her yard/house.She may have gone inside by the time the cops arrived, but the dog was hearing something. Too bad the dog can't say what it was, but I'm guessing it was the perps leaving, maybe even the yelling that was heard on the 911 call.

Link to podcast that goes with CNN transcript:

Neighbor interview starts at 19:40

Hunt For Missing Girl After Parents Killed; Frat Boy Accused Of Rape Set To Walk Free! Crime & Justice With Ashleigh Banfield podcast

And an interview with the Daily Mail:

The man says the gunshots sounded like a .22 or .410.


Video: Jayme Closs neighbors heard two gunshots before a 911 call was made | Daily Mail Online

All this makes me think the perp(s) were in the house about 30 minutes and cleared out after the 911 call. That would have given them time to tell Jayme to get on some clothes, shoes and coat.

Thinking of James getting shot at the door. What if there was a female knocking on the door, saying she had car trouble, dead phone, some excuse, so James opens the door part way, maybe it has a chain? Male shoots James, kicks door open...

Hmm I find it extremely odd that the neighbor said the gunfire sounded like a .22 or a .410 shotgun when neither one sounds remotely alike.

It's a totally different sound for a .22 rifle or handgun vs. the sound a .410 shotgun when fired.

Imo

 

[bellyup]

I don't think "off to the right" (from the police report) necessarily means "immediately to the right." MOO
http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/Kyle+Jaenke+Annis+Complaint.pdf

Could also be true. I am still going with my gut that the double picture window in the front of the house is the original living room. I'd bet that it still is but of course, can't be certain. Which leaves the bedrooms at the east end of the house and supports Jayme's room being the in back north corner. Immediately to the right of the patio door.

 

[1987]

Hmm I find it extremely odd that the neighbor said the gunfire sounded like a .22 or a .410 shotgun when neither one sounds remotely alike.

It's a totally different sound for a .22 rifle or handgun vs. the sound a .410 shotgun when fired.

Imo

and neither of those are all that loud. moo.

 

[rosesfromangels]

A “Clean Room” protocol in food processing mandates wearing gloves, booties etc

Well...well...well. Isn’t that interesting....

Hmmmmm.

 

[MsBetsy]

Thank you everyone that has clarified for me.
I wasn't here early on in the case and while I read through all the threads before I jumped in, reading them after the fact with removed posts / updated news stories sometimes make things harder to follow.

I'm back to my original theory.

Though I am newly informed with the patio door being immediately outside of Jayme's bedroom as that wasn't at all what I had been picturing.

I see now how you were confused. There were several references to the 911 call. One of the first reports the day after the murder was from the local news source, WAEU13. The reporter summarizes Fitzgerald as saying they could hear a disturbance or a commotion in the background but no-one spoke into the phone. He said they could hear yelling and that the only word they could make out was "help." However, by the time he did the first news conference he stated that he would not reveal what was said during the 911 call.
I find that the best sources are often the local news reports and even though Fitzgerald never said he heard the word help again, I believe he did hear that and it was Jaymes voice. Of course I could be wrong, but I believe James and Denise were already dead at that point or at least unable to speak. But I still think there is a chance that Denise managed to make the call before she died. But since LE arrived minutes after the call and the parents were deceased upon their arrival, I think it's more likely Jayme made the call on her mom's phone, and the perp grabbed her and struggled to get her out the door before LE arrived, within minutes. Imo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

and neither of those are all that loud. moo.

Exactly 1987.

It makes me think the neighbor was just ad libbing and really doesnt know much about guns in general. If he did he sure wouldnt have put those two together as sounding the same when fired.

Thank goodness the bullet casings were left at the scene so LE already knows what type of firearm was used.

Imo

 

[Rubiconbob]

If mom or dad called out her name or a perp did that would indicate she was there. Or if perp demanded to know where she was that may. But if perp asked her whereabouts then LE wouldn’t be so stumped on whether this was random or not.

Sheriff f. Is saying nothing here nothing here about 911 call only makes me wanna ask more questions.

a. Mumbling from far away..?? Let family listen.

b. 911 operator heard yelling... how do we go from yelling to can’t really hear anything?

c. Won’t let family listen?? Either jayme or Dennis yelling in agony, or family might know perp and go shoot them 5 minutes after they hear call.

Don’t think it’s an ace for sherif f, maybe face card, and he ain’t showing til grand jury indicts... guess that’s ok.

 

[sumzero]

Exactly 1987.

It makes me think the neighbor was just ad libbing and really doesnt know much about guns in general. If he did he sure wouldnt have put those two together as sounding the same when fired.

Thank goodness the bullet casings were left at the scene so LE already knows what type of firearm was used.

Imo

Interesting. The neighbors don’t seem to be reliable witnesses. Just about everything they’ve said has been called into question.

 

[MsBetsy]

Hmm I find it extremely odd that the neighbor said the gunfire sounded like a .22 or a .410 shotgun when neither one sounds remotely alike.

It's a totally different sound for a .22 rifle or handgun vs. the sound a .410 shotgun when fired.

Imo

Would either of those be commonly used for hunting? I know little about guns but have heard gunshots from hunters all my life. Although it's far away it still sounds pretty loud. If they said they thought it was hunters, I would think it would be loud, considering most hunters wouldn't shoot that close to a home. Imo

 

[mtnlites]

Sidebar: Growing up Roman Catholic, there were open casket funerals, unless the family did not wish it (usually due to the condition of the body). There was debate as to what age was appropriate for a child to view a corpse. Never mind “kiss Grandma good-bye” winces at the funeral home, my family took pictures of the corpses (I kid you not). When I told a friend that was a custom in WI (she’s from NY), she didn’t believe me. Then one Christmas I got a gift in the mail from her:
Wisconsin Death Trip - Wikipedia

We still take pictures of the corpses in the casket where I live. I don't find it strange at all.

 

[Lillymac]

Hmm I find it extremely odd that the neighbor said the gunfire sounded like a .22 or a .410 shotgun when neither one sounds remotely alike.

It's a totally different sound for a .22 rifle or handgun vs. the sound a .410 shotgun when fired.

Imo

I have listened to that tape two times today and also when it was first available. It's hard to understand I think, but to me he says Not like a 22 or 410.

 

[Lillymac]

Would either of those be commonly used for hunting? I know little about guns but have heard gunshots from hunters all my life. Although it's far away it still sounds pretty loud. If they said they thought it was hunters, I would think it would be loud, considering most hunters wouldn't shoot that close to a home. Imo

A 410 is a shot gun used for bird hunting or small game eg. squirrel or rabbit.

 

[ReckoningDay]

Haven't been here in a week or so. Quick question (so I won't have to scroll for days HA!) Has it come out that the perp was wearing booties, or is that speculation? And on what basis? Thanks in advance!

 

[Jax49]

I have listened to that tape two times today and also when it was first available. It's hard to understand I think, but to me he says Not like a 22 or 410.

I found this in the 19th thread.

Tom said on video: "It was a BIG gun" “It wasn’t like a hand gun or a 22 or a 410”....

AMBER ALERT - WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #19

 

[Lillymac]

I found this in the 19th thread.



AMBER ALERT - WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #19

Thank you!! Jax! Knew I was not hearing things.