AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #25

[carbuff]

the pics I seen about clean up looked to me that a sprayer was being prepped on the steps. my guess would be a chemical to deal with the biohazard that was in the house after they were killed. I don't think there was blood on the steps but who knows.

Luminol?

 

[Confusion]

the way I see it either it was a small cal handgun that IMO would just not have the stopping power to drop someone right there (I know someone that shot themselves in the head with a 22 and it done so little damage that they got up and found their phone called for help and stayed conscious threw it all), or a smaller shotgun that again I don't think would have dropped someone right there and dead instantly or it was a larger cal handgun that would likely do its damage and maybe drop someone right there and go on threw and damage that cabinet or it was like a 12ga shotgun that would almost certainly have the knock down and immediate death but would have also certainly have damaged the cabinet. I cant see how father was dead right there and snowman is still so white and clean. has puzzled me from first I seen the pic with the cabinet just inside door with all the glass and white stuff. I can see that some injuries wouldn't have just a huge pool of blood, but so little that nothing is broken and still so clean and white?

Is it possible that the father was knocked to the floor when the door was kicked open, and he was then shot while still lying there? That's about the best I can come up with right now. MOO

 

[Ragnarok]

the way I see it either it was a small cal handgun that IMO would just not have the stopping power to drop someone right there (I know someone that shot themselves in the head with a 22 and it done so little damage that they got up and found their phone called for help and stayed conscious threw it all), or a smaller shotgun that again I don't think would have dropped someone right there and dead instantly or it was a larger cal handgun that would likely do its damage and maybe drop someone right there and go on threw and damage that cabinet or it was like a 12ga shotgun that would almost certainly have the knock down and immediate death but would have also certainly have damaged the cabinet. I cant see how father was dead right there and snowman is still so white and clean. has puzzled me from first I seen the pic with the cabinet just inside door with all the glass and white stuff. I can see that some injuries wouldn't have just a huge pool of blood, but so little that nothing is broken and still so clean and white?

I'm thinking perp kicked door in and was in the house when the shots were fired. We don't know whether James fell on the left or right side of the door, or opposite. Just that he was seen when LE approached/entered.

I doubt that we are going to have any additional and/or significant information for a very long time.

 

[bellyup]

moo. I think father wasn't immediately at door, that door was broken in and he was confronted off to the side. maybe just near enough that le thought he was in process of getting towards door. or maybe it was a smaller cal and he lived long enough to move on toward door at some point.

I’m going with this as well.
I think the door swung to the left.
Which means James down to the right.

I wonder if the perp knocked the door in and James came toward it to see what was happening and was shot then.

I also have some pretty likely layouts based on chimneys and finding a house very similar (maybe the same) in Barron.

I think the layout is important for a couple reasons. It would give us a better idea of how things went down so quickly being (assuming LE time line). My theory changes radically depending where Jayme was as well.

 

[JudgeJoe]

Just checking in. Still searching nightly for anything new in media. Really hoping some hunter stumbles across something that breaks this case WO. Deer season remains open in various forms thru Jan 31st.
Hunting dates and deadlines - Wisconsin DNR

 

[Rubiconbob]

the way I see it either it was a small cal handgun that IMO would just not have the stopping power to drop someone right there (I know someone that shot themselves in the head with a 22 and it done so little damage that they got up and found their phone called for help and stayed conscious threw it all), or a smaller shotgun that again I don't think would have dropped someone right there and dead instantly or it was a larger cal handgun that would likely do its damage and maybe drop someone right there and go on threw and damage that cabinet or it was like a 12ga shotgun that would almost certainly have the knock down and immediate death but would have also certainly have damaged the cabinet. I cant see how father was dead right there and snowman is still so white and clean. has puzzled me from first I seen the pic with the cabinet just inside door with all the glass and white stuff. I can see that some injuries wouldn't have just a huge pool of blood, but so little that nothing is broken and still so clean and white?

You make excellent points... still lean towards ar15... dunno why .. just think perp knew wanted certainty on 2 targets down quickly...

Shotgun fits loud ... but didn’t they find Bullet in chair?? Not buckshot??

I could see desert eagle handgun or ar15..
I think he could hit both people anywhere top chest or head area and unlikely to survive long... if he hits head... likely over instantly.

Why cabinet or snowman clean... no clue. That’s odd...bullets going other direction?? Dunno...

Below article on ar15...its loud af ... and easy to shot.. o kickback..easy to fire 2 shots in succession..

What an AR-15 Can Do to the Human Body

 

[Confusion]

I just thought of a possible reason they know Jayme was there and alive that night when the 911 call came in. If it was obvious that both of her parents had died instantly after being shot, it could only have been her or Molly who called; I think we would have heard about how smart she was if it was Molly. MOO

 

[Songbird1973]

This is how I understand the much asked question about "Why did Jayme change schools?"

I have read the Wisconsin policy on open enrollment and it appears to have been a transportation issue. Although the sheriff said that Jayme transferred to Barron because Jayme's caretaker moved TO BARRON, I believe it is more accurate to say she had to transfer because her caretaker moved OUT OF the CAMERON DISTRICT (regardless of where she might have moved to.)

It seems likely that the aunt was Jayme's babysitter from the time she was born. So where would Jayme start school? Although you can send your child to a school outside your district, you must a) either drive them there yourself, or b) have a designated relative or caretaker living in that district where their bus can pickup and drop off your child. So it worked well for Jayme's parents to take her, or continue taking her, to the aunt's house in Cameron and have her start school there.

As Jayme got older, she didn't necessarily need a babysitter anymore, but as many have pointed out here, changing schools is a big deal, so she continued attending Cameron.

But, when the aunt moved out of the Cameron district, the only option for Jayme continuing school there was for either the Closs's or the aunt to drive her each day.

So apparently, the pros of moving Jayme outweighed the cons for the family. And although at times, Jayme may still have gone to the aunt's house after school/activities she didn't "need" a caretaker anymore, and was regularly picked up at the Closs home (per sheriff saying Jayme was alone at home for a time before her bus came) and dropped off (per neighbor.)

 

[Rubiconbob]

Is it possible that the father was knocked to the floor when the door was kicked open, and he was then shot while still lying there? That's about the best I can come up with right now. MOO

Right off the bat I would say doubtful, likely belly more plausible that perp knocks on door in 3/5 seconds waking James on couch or bed.. quickly going to door and getting shot.. that makes a lot sense...

But your scenario would fit too. Perp try’s knock door in knocking James over ... shooting in head or chest while down would have limited mess.. close to 0 for a bit ... yikes if that’s how happened ..

 

[gipsypup]

This is how I understand the much asked question about "Why did Jayme change schools?"

I have read the Wisconsin policy on open enrollment and it appears to have been a transportation issue. Although the sheriff said that Jayme transferred to Barron because Jayme's caretaker moved TO BARRON, I believe it is more accurate to say she had to transfer because her caretaker moved OUT OF the CAMERON DISTRICT (regardless of where she might have moved to.)

It seems likely that the aunt was Jayme's babysitter from the time she was born. So where would Jayme start school? Although you can send your child to a school outside your district, you must a) either drive them there yourself, or b) have a designated relative or caretaker living in that district where their bus can pickup and drop off your child. So it worked well for Jayme's parents to take her, or continue taking her, to the aunt's house in Cameron and have her start school there.

As Jayme got older, she didn't necessarily need a babysitter anymore, but as many have pointed out here, changing schools is a big deal, so she continued attending Cameron.

But, when the aunt moved out of the Cameron district, the only option for Jayme continuing school there was for either the Closs's or the aunt to drive her each day.

So apparently, the pros of moving Jayme outweighed the cons for the family. And although at times, Jayme may still have gone to the aunt's house after school/activities she didn't "need" a caretaker anymore, and was regularly picked up at the Closs home (per sheriff saying Jayme was alone at home for a time before her bus came) and dropped off (per neighbor.)

Some questions/observations maybe someone can answer:
1- WHEN did Jayme change schools ?
2- WHEN was Jayme in the hospital?
3-How thourough were the two girls that kept driving by questioned? Could they have possibly seen Jayme out earlier ? Could they know people Jayme hangout with since one girl lives close by ?
Did they overhear anything earlier amongst people they hangout with that something was going to happen that night ? How well do those girls know Jayme ?

 

[mtnlites]

Some questions/observations maybe someone can answer:
1- WHEN did Jayme change schools ?
2- WHEN was Jayme in the hospital?
3-How thourough were the two girls that kept driving by questioned? Could they have possibly seen Jayme out earlier ? Could they know people Jayme hangout with since one girl lives close by ?
Did they overhear anything earlier amongst people they hangout with that something was going to happen that night ? How well do those girls know Jayme ?

It wouldn't be allowed here on WS, but I would love to be a fly on the wall in some of the Barron homes right now. I wonder what local gossip is like. I belong to several offisite groups, but most of the theories and speculations come from non-locals. I am curious to know what people who actually live there think. We had a pretty high-profile case here where I live and I know that there were things going on behind the scenes and details of the case that never made it out of the county to the various discussion groups. Like I said, it wouldn't be admissible here, but for my own curiosity, I'm keen to know what's being said and thought around their county.

 

[Lavender Moon]

That seems really reasonable. There was the case of the girl in California that was kidnapped while going to school. Maybe she was about 16? They have the perp. He attempted rapes while he worked at a grocery store. The girls name is Serena or something like that,

LE asked for info on the car and the whole time they had it.

I think they wanted to see if they could get info on where he had gone.

I believe the girl you are referring is Sierra La Mar. She was fifteen years old.

 

[Rosiebones]

Although, the perps in the Connecticut home invasion, after seeing the family in the store parking lot, followed them home, cased the home and came back late at night and broke into the home through a basement window. So there is merit in following that line of thinking to see if it was possible here. Seems it wasn't.

 

[ArizonaNative]

Was there actually confirmation that James answered the door and that everyone was home at 10:00pm? Could he have come home and perp was already inside? If perp shot from inside the house as James entered, that would explain why nothing seems disturbed on the cabinet. Any evidence from the 1st shot would have ended up on the open door. During the investigation, it looked like the door was covered with some sort of blue cloth, but with a small area of the door exposed at the top. It must have been covered like that for a reason, something must have ended up on the door that LE didn’t want media/people having pics of.

Also, maybe that’s why first shot loud, came from further inside and 2nd shot louder, maybe right by door.

 

[JRW]

Yes 1987. This is Very good, logical analysis.

Would have to agree with you on all points.

(So sorry this is so graphic....) It makes one wonder, ...... what was the sequence of events in the commission of the crime in the living room there? Where was most of the blood evidence left? To one side or the other, of the door? On the floor, ....or, the walls on either side of the door? It wasn't on the cabinet, apparently.

Some sleuths said that LE was cleaning the steps outside, from a few posts ago in this thread, as per a photo. Is that correct? Was that where some blood ended up, ......on the front steps? Very confusing. Would that mean the perp stormed the front door, and fought with James. In the scuffle, maybe ....James was then shot when he was partly outside on the steps?

Amateur speculation only.

I'm still thinking that James was shot from inside the house as he was opening the door from the inside..

 

[1987]

there is a pic of what looks to me like the edge of the door still attached broken. I wonder about the rest of the door. media got photos of so much, like the glass door being taken away, where did the large part of the wood door go and media not get photos of? surely LE took it away broken, intact, just little pieces, how did it get removed unseen?

 

[Jhhb91]

It wouldn't be allowed here on WS, but I would love to be a fly on the wall in some of the Barron homes right now. I wonder what local gossip is like. I belong to several offisite groups, but most of the theories and speculations come from non-locals. I am curious to know what people who actually live there think. We had a pretty high-profile case here where I live and I know that there were things going on behind the scenes and details of the case that never made it out of the county to the various discussion groups. Like I said, it wouldn't be admissible here, but for my own curiosity, I'm keen to know what's being said and thought around their county.

Exactly my feelings. At times I feel there is credible local information, that I know (now) can’t be discussed here, but it exists. I live in a small town and have lived in many others and people know things. Of course, LE has to filter through what’s fact and what’s rumor which I’m sure takes a very long time. Guess I just keep hoping the one piece of info needed is in that town, county OR surrounding counties. JMO

 

[ArizonaNative]

The door must have been covered with the cloth before anyone came around to take pics when it got light out. I don’t know why the main door would have been removed unless there were bullets/holes in it. It looks like everything was just painted, maybe frame was repaired 1st, then everything painted white.

 

[Rosiebones]

In thinking about this now, I wonder also if JC was shot from behind as he was in the doorway looking out. Perhaps the spatter that seems to be missing on the cabinet is in fact on the inside of the door. We only know that there were bullet holes in the door, not whether they were from inside out or outside the house to inside. Perhaps that was the second louder shot. Perhaps Denise was shot first, near the bathroom door at the top of the stairs from the basement.

 

[gipsypup]

Was there actually confirmation that James answered the door and that everyone was home at 10:00pm? Could he have come home and perp was already inside? If perp shot from inside the house as James entered, that would explain why nothing seems disturbed on the cabinet. Any evidence from the 1st shot would have ended up on the open door. During the investigation, it looked like the door was covered with some sort of blue cloth, but with a small area of the door exposed at the top. It must have been covered like that for a reason, something must have ended up on the door that LE didn’t want media/people having pics of.

Also, maybe that’s why first shot loud, came from further inside and 2nd shot louder, maybe right by door.

This is so true. How is it known for sure that James as well as Jayme were home at 10pm ?
One of the aunts spoke to Denise and said everyone was home . Is she assuming everyone was home? Did she hear James and Jayme ?
Did Denise specifically say everyone was home ?
If James was coming back home and was shot entering the house that changes a lot of theories.
Also LE said they “ believe “ Jayme was home during the crime . Not certain , but they “believe.”
If Jayme was not home during the crime that changes a lot of theories also . JMO.