AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #25

[Rubiconbob]

I have also said it is just like the Short case. Also, if any of you have ever read the Joseph E Duncan confession on the Fifth Nail, he describes how he just saw Shasta and her mother one day while driving. He watched the house and even did a trial run the night before to see if dog would bark . He then goes into detail about what his biggest threats were before breaking in. He is most worried about the father having a gun. If Jayme was the target from a stranger, I just feel like the perp kind of took the same things into account and that is why he shot James right away.

It makes a lot of sense James kinda a big guy... he’s taken care of.. gets a lot easier after that.. if perp sells lost dog or car trouble would be hard for James to not at least go to door and check ... wrong gun through door would be it. I don’t know if shotgun would kill through door but explain the bullet holes I think he’s in entryway and not shot from behind only because they didn’t look in yard for billets ?? Or did they ?? Dunno

 

[aliensporebomb]

A cell phone radio transmitter - the cell phone itself - only has a range of about 45 miles. However, because of the time it takes for the radio signal to travel to the tower it won't be able to meet the protocol timings of the phone system which brings the effective range to about half of that or 22 miles.

I somewhat dispute this - the vast majority of cellular phones have a theoretical limit of that distance but in practical reality the distance is far less especially if using LTE or the like. In fact depending on tower density and carrier it can be much much less into the single digits as far as range goes.

Here's the sticky wicket - do we know what carrier the Closs family was on (probably on a family plan)? What carriers are on the tower nearest them? Most carriers lease space on a major antenna for an area so may be multiple carriers for the antenna near the Closs'.

Also, not every carrier allows access over every tower or allows high speed access. Presuming the perpetrator(s) had phones on them they may have pinged the tower closest to the Closs resident but one can't really say.

This is a big job, like finding a needle in a haystack attempting to find every cell device ping on every carrier that touched that tower within a one hour +/- time period around the time of the crimes.

 

[Curiousobserver]

I somewhat dispute this - the vast majority of cellular phones have a theoretical limit of that distance but in practical reality the distance is far less especially if using LTE or the like. In fact depending on tower density and carrier it can be much much less into the single digits as far as range goes.

Here's the sticky wicket - do we know what carrier the Closs family was on (probably on a family plan)? What carriers are on the tower nearest them? Most carriers lease space on a major antenna for an area so may be multiple carriers for the antenna near the Closs'.

Also, not every carrier allows access over every tower or allows high speed access. Presuming the perpetrator(s) had phones on them they may have pinged the tower closest to the Closs resident but one can't really say.

This is a big job, like finding a needle in a haystack attempting to find every cell device ping on every carrier that touched that tower within a one hour +/- time period around the time of the crimes.

I agree this is technologically possible, I read where the government did this in a terror investigation, but local police must not be able to do a cell tower sweep by the IMEI codes. Otherwise crimes in an area like this one, where there would be only a handful of phones out at 1AM, would be solved very quickly. I just think we would be hearing more about this if it were common to catch people this way.

Edited: Found an article: Cellphone data spying: It's not just the NSA

 

[Rubiconbob]

I somewhat dispute this - the vast majority of cellular phones have a theoretical limit of that distance but in practical reality the distance is far less especially if using LTE or the like. In fact depending on tower density and carrier it can be much much less into the single digits as far as range goes.

Here's the sticky wicket - do we know what carrier the Closs family was on (probably on a family plan)? What carriers are on the tower nearest them? Most carriers lease space on a major antenna for an area so may be multiple carriers for the antenna near the Closs'.

Also, not every carrier allows access over every tower or allows high speed access. Presuming the perpetrator(s) had phones on them they may have pinged the tower closest to the Closs resident but one can't really say.

This is a big job, like finding a needle in a haystack attempting to find every cell device ping on every carrier that touched that tower within a one hour +/- time period around the time of the crimes.

I don’t know much about cell info but think your right ... if we end up with nothing .. cell logs and local towers would be nightmare but might find the anomaly..

Last 6 months of tower pings ... is there a ping that hit night of incident never seen again or not seen for 3 days. ... or random ping 2 months ago ... then that might ...

I don’t know. But gotta be something there.. how many pings moving away from 4000 person town at 1 am. Can’t be boatload.. would be redtaoe and a lot detective work above me. But ?? Hoping for clue

 

[Lillymac]

I believe it was stated that Jayme's phone was charging in kitchen

Did it say all the phones were charging in the kitchen?

 

[Rubiconbob]

I believe it was stated that Jayme's phone was charging in kitchen

I could see jayme borrowing moms phone.. if she got no power... ??

I still don’t know how perp wouldn’t have upper hand for 2 minutes..

If there sound asleep?? Don’t know about y’all but I’m not ready to throw down 10
Seconds out of bed ... maybe diet mt dew 5 min later.. ready to go ...wouldn’t the family be barely awake for 90 seconds ...even with gunshots ?? More apt to say. What the &$/ was that?? I’ve woken to door being slammed open from bad storms.. shut door locked bolt .. then 1 min later check everything.

Also don’t know how much all it cost. For police and fbi .. wouldn’t it just be cheaper to map a grid and give every 5th home in the entire us ring cams for free..??

 

[tiffkinsadder]

Never heard that before either

Me either

 

[1987]

does not matter how many times you play something out in your head, when something happens even if it is exactly like what you have thought threw you never know how you are going to react because that is what a person does, they react, there is no time to consciously act.

edit..i do think a persons reactions would or could be different if asleep and startled awake.

 

[tiffkinsadder]

I have also said it is just like the Short case. Also, if any of you have ever read the Joseph E Duncan confession on the Fifth Nail, he describes how he just saw Shasta and her mother one day while driving. He watched the house and even did a trial run the night before to see if dog would bark . He then goes into detail about what his biggest threats were before breaking in. He is most worried about the father having a gun. If Jayme was the target from a stranger, I just feel like the perp kind of took the same things into account and that is why he shot James right away.

Those are my thoughts exactly.

 

[Jethro4WS]

I somewhat dispute this - the vast majority of cellular phones have a theoretical limit of that distance but in practical reality the distance is far less especially if using LTE or the like. In fact depending on tower density and carrier it can be much much less into the single digits as far as range goes.

Here's the sticky wicket - do we know what carrier the Closs family was on (probably on a family plan)? What carriers are on the tower nearest them? Most carriers lease space on a major antenna for an area so may be multiple carriers for the antenna near the Closs'.

Also, not every carrier allows access over every tower or allows high speed access. Presuming the perpetrator(s) had phones on them they may have pinged the tower closest to the Closs resident but one can't really say.

This is a big job, like finding a needle in a haystack attempting to find every cell device ping on every carrier that touched that tower within a one hour +/- time period around the time of the crimes.

The person I replied to had suggested that a phone could reach a tower 300 miles away. I merely replied with what the maximum range is and what the true practical range is. In reality a cell phone will contact the tower with the strongest signal that it is authenticated to regardless of the true distance.

Also, it doesn't matter who the cell phone company is, as there are only three that have the infrastructure - ATT, Verizon and Sprint. All others whether it be T-Mobile or StraightTalk, Tracphone, and so on merely lease time on the networks of ATT, Verizon, and Sprint as none of them have any physical infrastructure of their own and this is why you might not get higher speeds, etc. because as a customer you only get what these companies paid for from ATT, Verizon, Sprint.

As for the carrier that the Closs' had: Page 7 of the 911 Incident Report has an entry at 1:00:43 am that says "Person Removed: VERIZON, WIRELESS". That is almost certainly the cell phone provider they used.
http://media.graytvinc.com/documents/barron+county+call+log.pdf

These would be the Verizon towers in the area:
Verizon (United States of America) Cell Tower Map

 

[Cryptic]

This is how I understand the much asked question about "Why did Jayme change schools?"

I have read the Wisconsin policy on open enrollment and it appears to have been a transportation issue.

As you noted, the stated reason is that a baby sitting relationship led to the need for the other school and the later ability to return home.

Jayme’s parents, however, had worked at the plant for more than 20 years. As a result, they could well have been very senior employees and thus had priority when picking shifts etc. Then factor in that the plant, being in Wisconsin, is probably unionized and thus seniority adhered to.

In short, there could be other reasons for Jayme living with the aunt for a period of time. These reasons could support a direct motive for the murders, or given that direct motives have been exhausted, an indirect motive based on respect / disrespect. Maybe…

- Was Jayme ever perceived to be an ally or close friend to another individual who was in a confrontation with somebody- even over seemingly trivial matters?

- Had the parents ever complained about a teacher that led to a firing or more likely to a “contract not being renewed”?

- Was there a custody dispute regarding Jayme in the distant past?

- Had Jayme ever been pressured to make a promise to somebody about support or loyalty?

 

[OhThatVictoria]

As you noted, the stated reason is that a baby sitting relationship led to the need for the other school and the later ability to return home.

Jayme’s parents, however, had worked at the plant for more than 20 years. As a result, they could well have been very senior employees and thus had priority when picking shifts etc. Then factor in that the plant, being in Wisconsin, is probably unionized and thus seniority adhered to.

In short, there could be other reasons for Jayme living with the aunt for a period of time. These reasons could support a direct motive for the murders, or given that direct motives have been exhausted, an indirect motive based on respect / disrespect. Maybe…

- Was Jayme ever perceived to be an ally or close friend to another individual who was in a confrontation with somebody- even over seemingly trivial matters?

- Had the parents ever complained about a teacher that led to a firing or more likely to a “contract not being renewed”?

- Was there a custody dispute regarding Jayme in the distant past?

- Had Jayme ever been pressured to make a promise to somebody about support or loyalty?

No union at Jennie-O. From my research, the poultry industry is predominantly non-union. Interesting article re: retaliation at Jennie-O (from 2009)

Regional Report / Fired Jennie-O employee to get back pay in settlement – Twin Cities

 

[human]

I am still not real sure how this pertains to the case. Is there speculation that the perp might have hid in the basement? Did I miss something in the discussion? I keep thinking I did, since an awful lot of time has been spent on discussing basements.

People wondered about basements. Someone thought the Closs house was three level.

The Closs house is a very typical small ranch built into a hill with a walk out basement. The front of the house is very low to the ground whereas the back is much higher and the base of the basement is at ground level.

It appears from people’s drawings that there may be a door in the back of the basement. The side that has the aboveground portion.

I wonder, as some others, why they did not enter from that door? It would be easy to breech quietly and they could enter the house unnoticed.

Usually when there is that kind of back entrance, it goes into a living area and that level is not locked from the upper level.

Whereas a door in the garage to enter the house is locked.

If they were locals, they would know about such a home because there are tons of them everywhere.

Rather, they entered with shock and violence. I wonder why

 

[human]

Denise said everyone was home I'm assuming. Jayme did have a phone call with a friend, so I guess she said she was at home then.

As far as James goes, the fact that he was likely facing the door would be a good indication that he was answering it.

Do you have a link to Jayme’s phone call with a friend?

 

[JenniD]

Did it say all the phones were charging in the kitchen?

I only read that Jayme's phone was charging in the kitchen

 

[1987]

People wondered about basements. Someone thought the Closs house was three level.

The Closs house is a very typical small ranch built into a hill with a walk out basement. The front of the house is very low to the ground whereas the back is much higher and the base of the basement is at ground level.

It appears from people’s drawings that there may be a door in the back of the basement. The side that has the aboveground portion.

I wonder, as some others, why they did not enter from that door? It would be easy to breech quietly and they could enter the house unnoticed.

Usually when there is that kind of back entrance, it goes into a living area and that level is not locked from the upper level.

Whereas a door in the garage to enter the house is locked.

If they were locals, they would know about such a home because there are tons of them everywhere.

Rather, they entered with shock and violence. I wonder why

I don't think the perps desire was to just take jayme. I think the intent was to confront and be up close and personal and wanted the closs parents to be very aware of what was happening.

 

[JenniD]

As you noted, the stated reason is that a baby sitting relationship led to the need for the other school and the later ability to return home.

Jayme’s parents, however, had worked at the plant for more than 20 years. As a result, they could well have been very senior employees and thus had priority when picking shifts etc. Then factor in that the plant, being in Wisconsin, is probably unionized and thus seniority adhered to.

In short, there could be other reasons for Jayme living with the aunt for a period of time. These reasons could support a direct motive for the murders, or given that direct motives have been exhausted, an indirect motive based on respect / disrespect. Maybe…

- Was Jayme ever perceived to be an ally or close friend to another individual who was in a confrontation with somebody- even over seemingly trivial matters?

- Had the parents ever complained about a teacher that led to a firing or more likely to a “contract not being renewed”?

- Was there a custody dispute regarding Jayme in the distant past?

- Had Jayme ever been pressured to make a promise to somebody about support or loyalty?

I have never read or heard that Jayme lived with her aunt for any period of time. Do you have a link to that information?

 

[human]

As you noted, the stated reason is that a baby sitting relationship led to the need for the other school and the later ability to return home.

Jayme’s parents, however, had worked at the plant for more than 20 years. As a result, they could well have been very senior employees and thus had priority when picking shifts etc. Then factor in that the plant, being in Wisconsin, is probably unionized and thus seniority adhered to.

In short, there could be other reasons for Jayme living with the aunt for a period of time. These reasons could support a direct motive for the murders, or given that direct motives have been exhausted, an indirect motive based on respect / disrespect. Maybe…

- Was Jayme ever perceived to be an ally or close friend to another individual who was in a confrontation with somebody- even over seemingly trivial matters?

- Had the parents ever complained about a teacher that led to a firing or more likely to a “contract not being renewed”?

- Was there a custody dispute regarding Jayme in the distant past?

- Had Jayme ever been pressured to make a promise to somebody about support or loyalty?

No union

 

[human]

No union at Jennie-O. From my research, the poultry industry is predominantly non-union. Interesting article re: retaliation at Jennie-O (from 2009)

Regional Report / Fired Jennie-O employee to get back pay in settlement – Twin Cities

Retaliation? By the company?

Wisconsin a few years ago forbid collective bargaining but after 2009. Maybe it was just for teachers? Not sure if it was for every union.

 

[JRW]

Taking her from the bus stop allows an absolute max of about 2 hours for a getaway, and probably less than that. That's assuming nobody sees you doing it, which would be difficult in and of itself. As soon as she is marked absent from class, it would be reported to the school office, and the office would call the parents.

Taking her at night and killing the parents buys you a minimum of 10 hours, and possibly a lot more than that. The school would call the parents, but they obviously wouldn't answer because they'd be dead. Eventually someone would realize that no one had heard from anyone in the family that day so they would go to check on them. But by the time someone actually goes to the house it might be lunchtime on Monday, or maybe later that evening.

I also don't think the perp would assume the dad would come to the door with a gun. Most people don't. And maybe they knew enough about him to know that he didn't carry one on him. While he likely had guns in the house, most people with kids will keep them in a safe, or at least put away somewhere where the kid can't get to it easily.

Sounds like all of the family guns were accounted for, so it could have been as simple as knocking on the door to draw him to the door unarmed and then starting a blitz attack. He'd have no reason to go get his gun out of it's hiding place just to see who was at the door.

In some neighborhoods, someone knocking on the door after midnight may always be a reason to go get his gun. I find it odd especially if the Closs's were as private as the neighbors stated ( opinion?) that they would answer the door so late and think nothing extreme was going on. The road they live on has alot of wrecks, so maybe they thought someone had been in an accident and was knocking on the door? In my opinion I would think that if someone was knocking after midnight that the family would assume something was wrong..