AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #27

[photographer4]

No evidence except the empty shell casings from whatever the killer used. The sheriff stated they are not releasing that information. And the killer only went about 5 feet into the house? And the FBI has different criminal profiles depending on whether Jayme, James or Denise was targeted. Interesting.

But if mom was killed instantly, and killer only went five feet in to the home, how come it took officers about five mins to find her from the time they arrived? How instant is instant? Like bang she’s gone? Or bang... she had time to crawl away and try to call 911?! If they heard yelling on the 911 but there’s no evidence that Jayme resisted going with someone, then who was yelling at whom?? That part now makes me wonder if this was indeed two perps now and they were hollering at each other?

And how is the perp only there four mins and five feet in the home if neighbors heard shots at 12:30!? It now sounds they are completely disregarding what the neighbors heard as being at all related.

I do think they’ve interviewed the perp or perps already and they just don’t know it yet for some reason.

It sounds like denise’s family wasn’t super connected to James. If so, why not? What’s the backstory there?

 

[gngr~snap]

I agree, the electronic communication needs to be reviewed as far back as technology / saved records allowed. Likewise, not all festering respect / disrespect issues are communicated electronically. An attacker from an older generation targeting the parents may not have a social media trail.

It might also be good to work in reverse regarding the parents as targets possibility. The victims were from a rural area and all rural counties in America have a small- well, ideally at least, number of “bad news” type long term residents. Maybe start with three or so of the local bad news characters (don’t have to be RSOs- they appear to have been exhausted) and see if they have had any kind of respect / disrespect or financial interactions with the victims even if they occurred in the past.

As these types of interactions are not going to be on billboards, it could involve listening to the “grapevine”. Nobody has more information about the local criminal grape vine than the resident experts “enjoying” temporarily being housed at the county jail. Might as well start interviewing them. Some may even know of “bad news” types that are not well known to local police. Make it clear to the experts, however, that making frivolous accusations / wasting investigator’s time is not in their best interests.

What are others opinions if in fact that there is no electronic communication at all?

I can't decide if that points to total stranger, someone who had conversations in person with the Closs', (or Jayme).
I do feel that this may point to an elderly person who does not use computers or cell phones.

I can't believe it was random as I feel this person knew their home and their habits and took Jayme - or did he?
Could she have escaped???

***Is there ANY chance that Jayme is being protected somewhere by the authorities until the killer is found? (Because she can not identify who it was?)
They stated almost immediately that the girl in Florida was not Jayme.

They looked for evidence on the side of the road and gave examples.
They said they were certain Jayme was home and witnessed the murder.
Police did feel she was certainly alive early on.

The man who broke into the home and took Jayme's clothes was almost immediately crossed off as a suspect...

I have to think, elderly, over 55 perhaps even older.
Knew the parents for years if not decades.
Maybe a fellow school/sportsmate of James?
Had a grudge and never let it go.
Probably didn't really know Jayme personally, but she was not a part of any of it and felt she didn't deserve to die.
Perhaps, James took something from him, an award or place on a team, after years of growing hostility, he killed James and his wife and effectively, took the one thing in the world that meant everything to James.
Perhaos - She's being held somewhere and hopefully being treated well.
Unless he ran out of ammo I can't see why Jayme was not also found deceased in the home for any other reason.
Unless it is an older male wanting a relationship, but then someone that age should have a trail electronically.
Ugh!
I'm rambling!
Moo

 

[photographer4]

It is curious that he didn't venture into the house. That means everyone came to the living room when he entered. Maybe he grabbed Jayme if she was nearby and used her to lure Denise out?

Her room was off the back deck / sliding door area as per panty thief. She maybe heard the shots and came out on her own to see what happened and maybe at that point surprised someone so they took her? Maybe they hadn’t thought she’d be home (she may not have been the target).

 

[mickey2942]

What were they wearing? Was the bed slept in? Were they both in jammies? Or clothing?

Can they see any cell phone pings in the area? Or do you need a number first?

 

[1987]

there is something to the camera footage of the cars not being very good. I have wondered if the camera was at the house and just so low quality that nothing useable is there or if it was at a neighbor house that just catches lights going in and out of closs drive. maybe a low quality dash cam in one of their cars? a security system that wasn't armed but logged when doors was open and closed? something is giving that timeline and the killer for sure didn't punch a time clock for in and out time.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Or how they know someone only made it 5 feet in? Even if thats where they found Denise, how do they know thats where they stopped?

Exactly. That’s 2/3 steps. Do they now have footprints ??

 

[photographer4]

It is curious that he didn't venture into the house. That means everyone came to the living room when he entered. Maybe he grabbed Jayme if she was nearby and used her to lure Denise out?

Maybe Jayme was grabbed as a hostage? So maybe mom is yelling at perp on the 911? But again how if she died instantly? How instantly?
Thoughts?

 

[photographer4]

Exactly. That’s 2/3 steps. Do they now have footprints ??

What’s the deal with the chair they hauled out then if he went five feet into the home?

What’s the deal with the mattress they removed?

 

[mickey2942]

Exactly. That’s 2/3 steps. Do they now have footprints ??

If they made it only a few feet in the house, where was Jayme? If she was in bed, would she have come out to see what was going on and he grabbed her that fast? Or was she up at that hour?

 

[DutchTreat]

So what about the shots the neighbours heard? And I am convinced they did hear actual shots around the time they said they did.

Were those test shots fired by the perp to see if police would show up? To distract both the neighbours and the Closs family? So none of them would be alarmed when the actual crime took place.

The neighbours said the second shot was louder than the first.
So was there someone getting closer to the neighbours house while firing two shots?
The uneasiness of their dog makes me think there was someone on foot out there somewhere close to their house instead of inside the Closs' home.

It's almost like desensitize the neighbours regarding shots being fired. The shots from inside the Closs' home would have sounded like someone hunting, moving away into the distance, so no threat.

 

[GordianKnot]

Much of what LE has said publicly really doesn't make sense when you analyze it collectively.

IMO, they've been advised by the FBI's BAU to employ a disinformation strategy to keep the killer completely in the dark with regard to the real state of their investigation.
IMO, LE may be acting hapless and clueless in public ("It's a head-scratcher," "We just don't know what took place," etc.), but behind closed doors, they're gathering, compiling, sorting, and sifting through their evidence.

That's my sincere hope, at least.
The alternative, of course, is that LE really is clueless. Literally.

 

[photographer4]

Footprints? That is the only thing I can think of. But he took Jayme without going any farther than that distance?

She maybe ventured out of her room so he pointed the gun at her and told her to come with him so she did? :/

 

[Rosiebones]

How does LE go about searching for the gun without having a person in mind? Do they go back through previous crimes in which a gun was used and try to match these bullets to the records? Seems to me you would look for a person and then see if they owned or had a gun that matched? Just seems odd to me that they only say they are looking for a gun.

 

[IceIce9]

The killer only went five feet into the home.

Yet he left with Jayme.

Wouldn’t this indicate that Jayme didn’t run or try to get away? She must have been within the reach of the killer who was within five feet of the door.

The killer and Jayme were within five feet of the door, did he lure Jayme to come to him by threatening to shoot her mother if she didn’t walk toward him?

This story just got even stranger and more unlikely than it already was.

The motive wasn’t robbery, and doesn’t appear to be random. And LE has searched Jayme’s social media and cell phone.

“Law enforcement has not ruled out that Jayme unwittingly played a part in the crime. But searches of her social media, cell phone and computer have offered no evidence of a boyfriend or anyone she met anyone online who might have targeted her or her parents.”

 

[IceIce9]

But if mom was killed instantly, and killer only went five feet in to the home, how come it took officers about five mins to find her from the time they arrived? How instant is instant? Like bang she’s gone? Or bang... she had time to crawl away and try to call 911?! If they heard yelling on the 911 but there’s no evidence that Jayme resisted going with someone, then who was yelling at whom?? That part now makes me wonder if this was indeed two perps now and they were hollering at each other?

And how is the perp only there four mins and five feet in the home if neighbors heard shots at 12:30!? It now sounds they are completely disregarding what the neighbors heard as being at all related.

I do think they’ve interviewed the perp or perps already and they just don’t know it yet for some reason.

It sounds like denise’s family wasn’t super connected to James. If so, why not? What’s the backstory there?

To me “instant” means they were murdered in a split second, no time to crawl away and call 911.

 

[photographer4]

They were working on cleaning up the audio from the 911 call within a few hours of the attack, so I wonder if it wasn't clear exactly that it was shots until the call was cleaned up or listened to by other law enforcement officials.

The sheriff did say that the 911 call sounded almost like it was coming from another room, so I wonder if Denise either made the call from another room and then ran out to help James or if she dropped it and it was underneath a piece of furniture or something. Or I guess it's possible that Jayme made the call from Denise's phone as well, though that seems less likely in my mind.

I'd really like to know where each body and the phone that made the 911 call were located in the house.
ETA: Well, I guess we do know that James' body was in the doorway, so I'd like to know where Denise and the phone were found.

Ok. So it’s an open floor plan. We know Jayme’s room was near the deck / sliding door. We were told by LE in an earlier article that Jayme’s phone was on the charger in kitchen. The 911 phone was on the floor closer to denise then James and maybe had been kicked. The 911 call sounded as though it had been placed from the hallway or another room from where a commotion took place. No sign that Jayme resisted going. Doesn’t appear she packed anything.

So is it possible that someone is arguing with dad at the door or with mom and dad and that is the commotion on 911? But if it happened that way why didn’t 911 hear shots fired (or did they and we weren’t told?). Bc if there’s no sign Jayme resisted and there’s yelling, but the parents were killed quickly and instantly, there’s not many other options. It’s parents arguing (with someone or each other) or parent(s) against perp(s) or perp against perp.

It took five mins to find Denise. Think about that. This is some kind of messed up!! Can’t make any sense of it!

 

[photographer4]

To me “instant” means they were murdered in a split second, no time to crawl away and call 911.

Right. So who grabbed denise’s phone (and from where!?) and made the call? No sign of Jayme resisting soooo who’s yelling on the 911 and at whom? Jayme was apparently present when the murders happened (how do they know this?).

 

[DutchTreat]

What if Jayme, for whatever reason, was outside?
Was grabbed outside and then the perp went in and shot the parents. Parents might already have had a feeling something was wrong and were close to the front door. So the perp didn't have to go in more than 5 feet.

 

[Evinrude]

All of that would have been heard on the call and recorded in the call log, which it was not. All they heard was yelling, no shots or banging.

That what they would like the public to know right now.

 

[Bernard_Shakey]

Deleted

But if mom was killed instantly, and killer only went five feet in to the home, how come it took officers about five mins to find her from the time they arrived? How instant is instant? Like bang she’s gone? Or bang... she had time to crawl away and try to call 911?! If they heard yelling on the 911 but there’s no evidence that Jayme resisted going with someone, then who was yelling at whom?? That part now makes me wonder if this was indeed two perps now and they were hollering at each other?

And how is the perp only there four mins and five feet in the home if neighbors heard shots at 12:30!? It now sounds they are completely disregarding what the neighbors heard as being at all related.

I do think they’ve interviewed the perp or perps already and they just don’t know it yet for some reason.

It sounds like denise’s family wasn’t super connected to James. If so, why not? What’s the backstory there?

Are we allowed to mention the words people on other sites have said were heard on the 911 call? It’s probably just heresay, certainly no actual sources are given where it’s been discussed. New to WS so not sure if that’s ok?