AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #27

[Trino]

If they made it only a few feet in the house, where was Jayme? If she was in bed, would she have come out to see what was going on and he grabbed her that fast? Or was she up at that hour?

Or, did she walk out?

 

[Ms Buffyton]

Wow....there was a lot of information in that Daily Mail Exclusive article!! Some photos I have not seen before. The article even quoted a few things that the family said about James and Denise that I had not heard before. Umh....I just don't know!! The news also said that they were going to go through more surveillance videos in the area. Good grief, it's been almost 2 months. I would have thought that they would have looked at all of the videos by now!

 

[Oakland CA]

The Daily Mail article states:
Both Denise and James died 'instantly' of their wounds, he (Fitzgerald) said.

That could be interpreted as they died instantly after being shot, perhaps due to location of shots to the body (head wounds), rather than they both died at the same time. James shot at entry, Denise/Jayme arguing or pleading with perp(s) one of them was able to call 911 somehow. Perp became aware, disabled phone, shot Denise and left with Jayme in tow.

JMO

^^This^^

 

[Thekt]

Thanks Daisy6441, You always make good points.

Maybe the perp was not inclined to "venture into the house", .....because some part of his leg was hurting from having kicked in the door.

Maybe adrenaline helped him then. But what about later?

I hope LE checked nearby hospitals, and chatted up the local orthopedic surgeons in the surrounding areas.

"Any males come in with a leg/ankle/knee in pain?"

"...and with an interesting 'story' on how it happened?"

On the other side, it could also be the type of injury which someone (a friend/relative/co-worker of the perp's) might not realize that they hold a critical piece of information that could solve this. Its implausible, but maybe they could remember it six weeks later:

"Yeah, Frank was limping last month. I asked him about it. He said he slipped on the ice and hurt his hip while fishing at his cabin north of here. "

This^^^...been lurking, but wanted to recognize this really good point you make @DancingMuse

 

[Rubiconbob]

If she had bolted, and was outside when they grabbed her, who’s yelling on the 911 call? Parents are instantly gone isn’t leaving a lot of room for either to try to dial. Is it possible Jayme called and two perps are heard freaking at each other over the murders? Jayme bails and they snatch her outside just before or as police arrive and hold
A gun to her to ensure she stays quiet? They leave by foot to a hidden car nearby after cops enter the home knowing they have a few mins before cops come back out and more LE arrive on scene? Could it be that simple? They just hid outside for a few mins til the perp was sure cops were busy inside?

That could work. That scenario also works if u are on move outback in 3/4 minutes... based on pattern.. as long as they get to moving cops all came from one direction..

I have to think jayme was heard on 911 call though... Fitzgerald said she was at home during murders based on 911 call.

It’s weird the more info we get, seems possible perp list grows.

Local druggie / pissed off fired Jeanie o employee / ex military/ cop / online crush / online stalker / local divorced hunter/ drug payback wrong house / sex offender / family associate...

Really could see anything above playout... and not get answer for 5 or 10 yrs

 

[Thekt]

What if Jayme, for whatever reason, was outside?
Was grabbed outside and then the perp went in and shot the parents. Parents might already have had a feeling something was wrong and were close to the front door. So the perp didn't have to go in more than 5 feet.

This is where my mind went after this new set of information. Perhaps she wasn’t in her room or in the back of the house. That said, I do wonder about the validity of the source (DM) of this new information.

 

[Thekt]

Maybe. But wouldn’t they have said they thought the yelling could have come
From a tv? They know Jayme was home at the time of the murder. They didn’t seem to know a young girl lived there for sure until they connected with the school officer. Something on the tape tells them she was home at the time of the murders along with other evidence at the scene (we were told this by LE). So that leaves a parent screaming for someone not to hurt her or a perp yelling at Jayme to move or two perps arguing about the kid and how to deal with her (speculation!). Evidence at the scene would include Jayme’s cell phone being on the charger in the kitchen.

It’s contradicting for sure because it has been said that nothing can be made out from the 911 call, just muffled noise from afar.

 

[SuziQ]

Not necessarily. When I dial on my phone, many times there is a delay from the time I dial until the call actually starts going through. I've had it take up to 20 seconds before the call actually connects. Plenty of time for her to dial and then if the killer saw it, shoot her. I have no idea if it is my carrier or the area where I live, but I'm only about 40 minutes from Barron.

I thought about that too. The sound of the door being kicked in? It's puzzling as to what clued the sheriff into the 4 minutes.

 

[Whiskers16]

@Mistermagoo I am a little confused on the word sleuthing itself since it indicates investigating someone. Some info is not the result of such nor is the info accusatory. It's simply info that happens to be connected. Hoping for clarity. Can a connection found involving a victim or family member be talked about if there is no negative connotation, blame, etc being stated about them. EX: Inadvertent contact and possibly unaware association of someone not known to be of questionable character. The victim is in no way responsible for anything aside from innocent, random, or unrelated to case, contact. Gray areas are tough because no one wants to break the rules and I hate bothering the mods to ask (though I have lol)

I would say "sleuthing" on this forum can include things like naming a friend/family member, discussing things posted on their social media, or sharing information (regardless how publically available it is) about their address, employment, background, associations, etc. It does not have to be a negative insinuation or an explicit accusation to be considered sleuthing. Something as innocent as "her brother Bob works at the car wash" can turn into a whole rabbit hole of speculation and discussion that would probably upset Bob if he were to stumble across the thread. The intent of the "sleuthing" rules is to protect the privacy of people who have a connection to a victim and prevent innocent people from any unfounded speculation that might impact their life/reputation. HTH

​

 

[daisy6441]

I wonder if Jayme might have been sleeping on the couch. Maybe they all fell asleep watching tv. No one has said if the parents were strict or not. Perhaps Jayme was allowed to decide her own bedtime and stayed awake that night.

 

[photographer4]

That could work. That scenario also works if u are on move outback in 3/4 minutes... based on pattern.. as long as they get to moving cops all came from one direction..

I have to think jayme was heard on 911 call though... Fitzgerald said she was at home during murders based on 911 call.

It’s weird the more info we get, seems possible perp list grows.

Local druggie / pissed off fired Jeanie o employee / ex military/ cop / online crush / online stalker / local divorced hunter/ drug payback wrong house / sex offender / family associate...

Really could see anything above playout... and not get answer for 5 or 10 yrs

Home but didn’t appear to resist going with perp. So if she’s on the tape, what do we imagine she may have been saying? :/

 

[photographer4]

It’s contradicting for sure because it has been said that nothing can be made out from the 911 call, just muffled noise from afar.

The log says dispatch heard a lot of yelling. I’m
Going with yelling for a thousand Alex. So the question is back to: who’s yelling about what and at whom?

 

[gngr~snap]

Home but didn’t appear to resist going with perp. So if she’s on the tape, what do we imagine she may have been saying? :/

Don't kill my dog?
Moo

 

[not.a.muggle]

The Daily Mail article states:
Both Denise and James died 'instantly' of their wounds, he (Fitzgerald) said.

That could be interpreted as they died instantly after being shot, perhaps due to location of shots to the body (head wounds), rather than they both died at the same time. James shot at entry, Denise/Jayme arguing or pleading with perp(s) one of them was able to call 911 somehow. Perp became aware, disabled phone, shot Denise and left with Jayme in tow.

JMO

This. They died instantly after being shot, they weren't necessarily shot instantly, although we (some of us) believe that James may have been based on where he was found. I believe Denise was further in the house when she was shot. Just looking at my house, you step 5 ft in and I'm coming around the corner, you'll get me point blank. The call log was released four days after the murders without anything redacted as @girlhasnoname also said. We saw the actual PDF or some scanned document of the call, didn't we?

911 dispatch log: Call made from Denise's cell phone, door kicked in
"COULD HEAR A LOT OF YELLING"

^^ That tells me Jayme wasn't the only one alive at the time of the call so Denise probably made it and it was dropped right before she was shot...MOO.

 

[photographer4]

I thought about that too. The sound of the door being kicked in? It's puzzling as to what clued the sheriff into the 4 minutes.

How long was the 911 call? 47 seconds? So did they add a minute before the call was placed for someone to kick the door and shoot James and Denise? If so, you’re at 1 min and 47 seconds and that may be a longe time than the killing even took. So what makes up the rest of the time? No evidence Jayme packed anything. Dog unharmed. Nothing appears out of place or missing besides Jayme. :/ what happened after the call disconnected? What makes up four minutes? That’s pretty specific.

Do they maybe have: a last call out on the cell before 911 connects? A partial dial? Or a dial out that failed to connect? That’s happened to me before. You dial and it shows connecting forever so you hang up and do it again or reboot the phone and then dial. It’s not uncommon but it’s not all the time either. So that may account for a minute or so (try to call, hang up reboot and call again, connect)?

What else could give that four minute timeline so specifically? Cars on video with time stamps?

 

[photographer4]

This. They died instantly after being shot, they weren't necessarily shot instantly, although we (some of us) believe that James may have been based on where he was found. I believe Denise was further in the house when she was shot. Just looking at my house, you step 5 ft in and I'm coming around the corner, you'll get me point blank. The call log was released four days after the murders without anything redacted as @girlhasnoname also said. We saw the actual PDF or some scanned document of the call, didn't we?

911 dispatch log: Call made from Denise's cell phone, door kicked in
"COULD HEAR A LOT OF YELLING"

^^ That tells me Jayme wasn't the only one alive at the time of the call so Denise probably made it and it was dropped right before she was shot...MOO.

Ok so denise calls and is shot so she dies instantly. Who’s left yelling on the 911 if Jayme didn’t resist? Only the perp. Yelling for Jayme? That’s maybe how they knew Jayme was home when this went down?

 

[photographer4]

The Daily Mail article states:
Both Denise and James died 'instantly' of their wounds, he (Fitzgerald) said.

That could be interpreted as they died instantly after being shot, perhaps due to location of shots to the body (head wounds), rather than they both died at the same time. James shot at entry, Denise/Jayme arguing or pleading with perp(s) one of them was able to call 911 somehow. Perp became aware, disabled phone, shot Denise and left with Jayme in tow.

JMO

Hm. Ok. So if she went out to plead with a perp how come it took five mins for cops to find her in the home? If perp only went five feet into the home, how come it took five mins to find her? How’s that possible if she was killed instantly?

He shots from the doorway, hits her but how? How does he kill her in an open concept floor plan but it takes five mins for cops to find her?

Did she end up hiding in a room visible from the door and perp shot her through a door? She couldn’t have been pleading at the door area when killed or they’d have seen her when they found James.

That or she managed to crawl off somewhere and call 911 before she died in which case, death wasn’t instant.

 

[not.a.muggle]

Ok so denise calls and is shot so she dies instantly. Who’s left yelling on the 911 if Jayme didn’t resist? Only the perp. Yelling for Jayme? That’s maybe how they knew Jayme was home when this went down?

Just to clarify, that's not what I said in my post that you quoted.

 

[photographer4]

This. They died instantly after being shot, they weren't necessarily shot instantly, although we (some of us) believe that James may have been based on where he was found. I believe Denise was further in the house when she was shot. Just looking at my house, you step 5 ft in and I'm coming around the corner, you'll get me point blank. The call log was released four days after the murders without anything redacted as @girlhasnoname also said. We saw the actual PDF or some scanned document of the call, didn't we?

911 dispatch log: Call made from Denise's cell phone, door kicked in
"COULD HEAR A LOT OF YELLING"

^^ That tells me Jayme wasn't the only one alive at the time of the call so Denise probably made it and it was dropped right before she was shot...MOO.

The phone was found closer to denise than James. On the floor. Maybe it had been kicked. How does a perp kick a phone away from a victim who police took five mins to locate? All without taking more than a few steps inside the entry?

The only way that seems do-able to me is either Denise didn’t make the call or she wasn’t killed instantly by the shot that got her. She made the call and crawled away dropping the phone? Then who is yelling on the call? Perp sees she dialed and is yelling at her as she crawls away? But he doesn’t care cause he knows she’s a goner? So ends call and kicks phone? I wonder now does the yelling get louder on the tape (someone going toward the phone to end the call)? Or quieter? Someone doesn’t end the call it just ends itself (battery?) and that’s that? If it appeared kicked away did Denise drop it and stumble away from it?

 

[Ragnarok]

IMO, If Denise died instantly, the 911 call was made before the shot. Therefore the shot was heard in the 911 call.

Or, Denise makes the 911 call, is shot dropping the phone before call is picked up by the 911 operator, and the commotion is the perp grabbing Jayme.