AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #27

[kkdj]

4 minutes is a much longer time than we may think.

If we sit still watching our watch until 4 minutes has elapsed it is more than ample time for all of this to happen.

I had said previously based on what Fitzgerald had said earlier both patents were shot dead in close proximity to one another. The new article seems to support that as well.

It wouldnt even take a half a minute for him to kill Denise and James both.

That would leave him more time than necessary to force Jayme out of her home with time to spare.

She would be scared to death and would comply to his every demand.

Imo she knew if she did not he would kill her too just like he did her parents. Imo he would make sure she knew that if she tried to run. She knew she was under his total control and I think he forced her out of her home at gunpoint.

Jmo

BBM
I think this is the most likely. I just wonder if she knew (knows) the perp.

 

[kkdj]

I believe the perp is a friend of a relative, that he has her in his home, and that she is alive

Could be. What are you drawing your conclusion from?

 

[jayaxx]

The only reason to release any piece of evidence in an active investigation is if it would allow the public to be of help. The case is not effectively dead.

Agree. And I think that there needs to be a new look and a fresh line of thinking here. We have a piece of evidence. Will it help? We dont know. Smart people have said it wont. But those same smart people of found nothing of this girl, tips have dried up, and people have stopped reporting on it in the way needed to put on a full court public press on finding this girl. So redact anything that you feel would hinder a prosecution, and release the 911 call. The worst that can happen is we are all in the same darn place after as we are now. Maybe, just maybe, there is something there that sparks something. Or maybe the release of the tape reignites regional or national media and that random person in Oklahoma, or Iowa, or wherever is watching a talking head talk about the tape while Jayme's face is on the screen at the moment she and her captor are at a gas station or eating pancakes.

This is what LE would do if finding her was the priority.

 

[sbsuzilight]

4 minutes...5 feet...? Im guessing here, because this all has me confused how they know this if theres truly no evidence. But thats a long time to be inside not go in any further. Its possible the 911 call was made just before or right as the person got inside, so LE can hear the time of entry. And also possible Denise was shot from a distance. Casings could have been on the floor 5ish feet into the front door where the shooter stood, which those could have been seen immediately by LE (multiple rounds). Possibly this was near a doorway or hallway where Denise was in a different room, hence not being seen/found right away. If they only went 5 feet in it makes me feel like they were staying close to watch for police and to be able to get out fast.

 

[photographer4]

I want to know those things too. We have such limited information. The phone could have been knocked from Jayme's hands and kicked across the floor.

Do we know from a verified media source that Denise was found in the bathroom? Seems like I remember that. She could have had her phone in the bathroom with her and called 911 but been unable to speak. If that were the case, then she could not have died instantly and it would have been Jayme heard in the background in another area.

I'm getting to where I just do not know what to believe anymore. I don't think LE is going to tell us anything further. My late husband was retired LE after 23 years of service and I had 10 years in the the S.O. before I burned out, so I'm not being critical of LE when I say there is more they could tell us that would not hurt the case. 20 years ago we would have had more information save for some very critical points known only to the murderer(s).

I just don't know anymore. We have put forth so many different scenarios and someone is right. Will we ever know?

MOO

Could it have been knocked from her hands though? If they can hear yelling on the call, but it was as if the call was made from another room or from the hallway, far away from the commotion, then could it have been kicked out of Jayme's hands? Who is yelling in the distant background then?

 

[photographer4]

Do we know if the casings were found inside or outside the home? Or both?

Depending on where the casings were found, a couple of the many possible scenarios I've considered are:

• The crime began as a verbal confrontation at the house with someone known to at least one of the Closses. The argument escalated, perp drew a weapon, Denise tried to surreptitiously dial 9-1-1 on her phone, perp noticed and yelled at her to drop the phone while at the same time James was yelling something like "Put the gun away!" and/or Jayme was yelling, "What are you doing?" or something to that effect. Denise dropped the phone quickly, perp headed toward the door w/ Jayme, weapon in hand, James tried to block the door and perp shot him, then shot Denise in a panic and fled w/ Jayme. This scenario only makes sense if the bullets entered the door from the interior of the house vs. the exterior.

• Another scenario that I've considered is that perp showed up at the house demanding to see/speak to one of the Closses, James denied the perp entry, perp went back to his vehicle, retrieved a firearm and returned shooting his way into the home. James saw the perp coming back to the house with a weapon, yelled at Denise to call 9-1-1, Jayme was also yelling in the background, James tried to bar the door/shield his family, the perp shot James through the door, he yelled at Denise to drop the phone, which she did, he shot her, then he left the house w/ Jayme.

If he yelled at Denise to drop the phone and then shot her, would the Log reflect shot fired? I'd think it would if they heard that on the tape because the officers personal safety would then be on the line. I can't imagine dispatch not telling officers that. If he shot her and then she dropped the phone, how is it that it took police five mins to find her body in the home? How is it that there was yelling heard on the call but as if from another room or a hallway? Who's yelling at whom if this is how it went down?

 

[Quill]

I'm 51 1/2! I don't think I'm elderly, unless
I am being compared to a 20 (something).
Moo

We are the same age! Elderly is my 81 year old mother, not me. Fifty is the new 40, haven't you heard?

 

[JenniD]

I reread the DM article and noticed the bolded part said perp was there four minutes and stepped 5 feet in but down further in the article they have the following in quotations
'But if I'm in your house for minutes and I only step five feet inside your home I'm probably not going to leave a big footprint.'

The quotes say IF and FOR and for and four have entirely different meanings
I see this no where else on MSM
Could be true but I am not putting too much into this

 

[sbsuzilight]

Someone posted a few pages back that the “5 feet” is the only new piece we have from this story. I just watched the video of the sheriff’s statement and agree. I don’t know how factually we should take that statement. He did not preface it with “we have reached the conclusion from looking at the crime scene...” or “we know now...” It seemed more like he was trying to explain why there is no evidence. It’s the same statement he made during the long interview with a local reporter about a month ago, he just added the 5 feet. MOO.

 

[sbsuzilight]

Great point.

 

[Quill]

I really don't think the chair had anything to do with what happened that night. The dog had probably given it a good doing over at some point in the past. Just JMO.

snipped by me

JMO, but I respectfully disagree; high res photos of that chair were analyzed over and over here on earlier threads. Fresh damage to the wood and it was splintered not gnawed. I hate to get that topic roaring again after it was over-analyzed and finally put to rest, but we had members knowledgeable in guns and ammo here who were collectively in agreement.

 

[Quill]

The chair had a bullet hole in the front of it. The mattress was removed later, possibly looking for evidence of Jayme possibly having a lover.

As a woman who has raised two daughters, I am just going to say that I can think of a couple of reasons they would take the mattress to test just to be certain and rule some things out. "Stuff" happens when you are thirteen and I would think they would want to make sure it was unrelated to the crime, if you get my drift. I know most of the ladies here will.

 

[RoChEsTeR Paul]

Could be. What are you drawing your conclusion from?

Nothing solid. But a strong belief based on following the case closely and the facts that we have so far. And I would consider re-interviewing relatives to ask whether any friendships they had seemed abruptly more distant after that day

 

[cluciano63]

The five feet is hypothetical...jmo

 

[Quill]

I'm going to assume the dog was barking like crazy. That would have alerted the family. Maybe James was at the door because he was trying to lock it.

This is totally possible.

 

[CarGoVroomVroom]

My Dukes of Hazzard opinion.

Originally, they claimed vehicle of interest, so they searched the ditches, 14 miles West.

They removed vehicle of interest and searched land with 2000 some volunteers. Removal of vehicle was not public yet.

They believe it is a local person and have interviewed them.

However, they want answers to after, as seeking a Gun and JC. So now watching surveillance.

FBI marked four people down of concern.

So just exactly how did they escape is my concern.

Previous thread, some time ago, I noted displeasure in the unknown about LE not seeing headlights or tail lights on their arrival at Code 3

 

[Mistermagoo]

I reread the DM article and noticed the bolded part said perp was there four minutes and stepped 5 feet in but down further in the article they have the following in quotations
'But if I'm in your house for minutes and I only step five feet inside your home I'm probably not going to leave a big footprint.'

The quotes say IF and FOR and for and four have entirely different meanings
I see this no where else on MSM
Could be true but I am not putting too much into this

In the video you can tell the sheriff means four minutes. This is reassured on the very next clip when the Aunts are saying Four minutes also.
The DM does mistakenly say in the video right after that it was four minutes from the time of the call until LE arrived, which we all know was 7.
I am sure this "4 minute" timeline has been discussed within all the respective departments of LE and all things that factor in , such as what was heard on the 911 tape and how long it would take to get out were all taken into account and they have come to the conclusion that it had to be done in 4 minutes or less.

 

[kay74]

<mod fix broken quote>
Does anyone remember the first interview James Closs brother gave? When asked what he thought happened, his first response was someone from work he may have had a disagreement with. He based that on the fact James worked so many hours at Jennie O.

Are they "investigating" anyone at that plant? LE said they talked to people there, LOL, that's not investigating.

 

[kay74]

Thanks for link. I think this definitely rules out random robbery and maybe why Denise's family said they had even more questions after they were allowed to visit the crime scene
To me I still feel this was a targeted revenge killing by someone/s who were reported for illegal activity by the Closses or they believe the Closses reported them. I just don't think Jayme was the target
JMO O

I believe it was revenge too.

 

[JenniD]

I have not seen the video only read the article. I will try to find it and watch