AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #27

[JnRyan]

I don't know how LE defines forensic evidence, how broad an area it covers etc. To me forensic evidence means bodily fluids, blood etc., evidence under fingernails etc.

The area is quite broad. In addition to biological evidence, it can be ballistic evidence, electronic evidence such as computer files/usage or cell phone activity, chemical analysis evidence such as analysis of soil found at crime scene or automotive evidence such as impressions of tire tracks left at the scene. In short, just about anything found at the scene or in possession of a suspect that can be used to determine guilt or innocence.

 

[GordianKnot]

If he yelled at Denise to drop the phone and then shot her, would the Log reflect shot fired? I'd think it would if they heard that on the tape because the officers personal safety would then be on the line. I can't imagine dispatch not telling officers that. If he shot her and then she dropped the phone, how is it that it took police five mins to find her body in the home? How is it that there was yelling heard on the call but as if from another room or a hallway? Who's yelling at whom if this is how it went down?

Photog4, I know...it just seems like every single scenario we can generate has major sticking points, doesn't it? The only way that scenario works in my mind is that Denise dropped the phone quickly, the call disconnected when the phone was dropped, and both Denise and James were shot AFTER the call, which explains why nobody picked up. The dispatch log itself only noted hearing voices yelling, it does NOT say the voices sounded distant or muffled or like they were coming from another room or hallway...that description of the 9-1-1 call came from Fitzgerald later on, and frankly, I'm not sure I'm buying what he's selling as far as that 9-1-1 tape goes. JMO.

 

[JnRyan]

Photog4, I know...it just seems like every single scenario we can generate has major sticking points, doesn't it? The only way that scenario works in my mind is that Denise dropped the phone quickly, the call disconnected when the phone was dropped, and both Denise and James were shot AFTER the call, which explains why nobody picked up. The dispatch log itself only noted hearing voices yelling, it does NOT say the it sounded like it was coming from another room or hallway...that came from Fitzgerald later on, and frankly, I'm not sure I'm buying what he's selling as far as that 9-1-1 tape goes. JMO.

Or Denise was already shot and crawled to or pulled out her phone. Or Jayme picked it up and made the call. We know it was Denise's phone, but we don't know who made the call.

 

[stargazer17]

I also think that Fitzgerald has "4 minutes" stuck in his head and has said it at least twice but means it happened in just a few minutes. He doesn't believe they were in the house for any significant amount of time.

 

[KLM6]

How on earth are they so positive about these conclusions? It makes no sense to me.

I have no clue whats going on with this case anymore. Not that I ever did understand but its crazy.

 

[photographer4]

The neighbours simply misread the time. They said it was 12:38 when in fact it was 12:58.

Not sure bc I’ve read their clock was slow, by 7 mins. Not fast. If it was slow, 12:38 is 12:31. Police were at one point asking for info on vehicles of interest from 12:30-1:30am.

 

[bizzle2]

Not sure bc I’ve read their clock was slow, by 7 mins. Not fast. If it was slow, 12:38 is 12:31. Police were at one point asking for info on vehicles of interest from 12:30-1:30am.

If police thought the first shots of the crime were at 12:31 or 12:38 they would ask for vehicles from earlier than 12:30

 

[Rubiconbob]

snipped by me

JMO, but I respectfully disagree; high res photos of that chair were analyzed over and over here on earlier threads. Fresh damage to the wood and it was splintered not gnawed. I hate to get that topic roaring again after it was over-analyzed and finally put to rest, but we had members knowledgeable in guns and ammo here who were collectively in agreement.

I think there trying to back there way into perps height... all bullet trajectory... hopefully will get u something..

 

[photographer4]

Photog4, I know...it just seems like every single scenario we can generate has major sticking points, doesn't it? The only way that scenario works in my mind is that Denise dropped the phone quickly, the call disconnected when the phone was dropped, and both Denise and James were shot AFTER the call, which explains why nobody picked up. The dispatch log itself only noted hearing voices yelling, it does NOT say the voices sounded distant or muffled or like they were coming from another room or hallway...that description of the 9-1-1 call came from Fitzgerald later on, and frankly, I'm not sure I'm buying what he's selling as far as that 9-1-1 tape goes. JMO.

I’m with ya on all those points!

 

[photographer4]

If police thought the first shots of the crime were at 12:31 or 12:38 they would ask for vehicles from earlier than 12:30

Right. Which is why I think they have discounted the neighbors account.

 

[crhedBngr]

IMO Daily Mail is a tabloid.

I agree with that. They may get some things right, but I tend to raise my eyebrows in skepticism when I read things they've published.

JMVHO.

 

[JnRyan]

Not sure bc I’ve read their clock was slow, by 7 mins. Not fast. If it was slow, 12:38 is 12:31. Police were at one point asking for info on vehicles of interest from 12:30-1:30am.

IF it was actually 12:58 and not 12:38 - and I'm not say that is correct - that would mean the shots would have occurred at approximately 12:51. That would actually fit into the timeline better as that would be 2-3 minutes before the 911 call. The 911 call was made by a mortally wounded parent? Or Jayme? After the shots.

Of course, this is just pure speculation as I don't believe anyone - witnesses or LE - have specifically stated that they backed off the 12:31 time of the gunshots.

 

[GordianKnot]

If this was a planned abduction for trafficking, and I assume it would be done for monetary reasons, wouldn't there be more missing young girls in the area over the past couple of years? Doing this once every couple of years wouldn't be very lucrative to the perps.

Great point, Rosieb! I have never heard of a single case of sex trafficking in the US where the parents were murdered just to get hold of the girl. If someone can point me to a case where that's happened, i.e., a home invasion where parents were murdered for sex trafficking, then I'll consider that as a possible scenario in this case; otherwise, IMO, these murders and JC's disappearance are definitely not connected to sex trafficking.

As always, absent a link, whatever comes out of my mouth is JMO.

 

[photographer4]

Search for missing 13-year-old Jayme Closs expands as police hunt for 2 cars seen by Wisconsin home | Daily Mail Online

@andreww see this? Neighbor says it was off by seven mins and more like 12:31....

If it was 12:58 and they misread it as 12:38, that puts shots fired at 12:51. I’m thinking they aren’t the best witnesses given they may have misread the clock plus the clock was slow by so many mins.

 

[bizzle2]

Photog4, I know...it just seems like every single scenario we can generate has major sticking points, doesn't it? The only way that scenario works in my mind is that Denise dropped the phone quickly, the call disconnected when the phone was dropped, and both Denise and James were shot AFTER the call, which explains why nobody picked up. The dispatch log itself only noted hearing voices yelling, it does NOT say the voices sounded distant or muffled or like they were coming from another room or hallway...that description of the 9-1-1 call came from Fitzgerald later on, and frankly, I'm not sure I'm buying what he's selling as far as that 9-1-1 tape goes. JMO.

The dispatch log is just brief notes. It was a 47 second 911 call and all it says is that there was yelling. Nothing about what was being yelled or other noises heard. Sheriff has had a chance to listen to the cleaned up version many times, so it makes sense he'd be able to provide more detail without divulging too much. The dispatcher's job isn't to get as much information as possible into the call log, it's just to notify the officers quickly and provide them with the information they need. Not all communication between the dispatcher and the responding officers is recorded on the call log. The Sheriff has no reason to lie about what was on the 911 tape.

 

[bizzle2]

IF it was actually 12:58 and not 12:38 - and I'm not say that is correct - that would mean the shots would have occurred at approximately 12:51. That would actually fit into the timeline better as that would be 2-3 minutes before the 911 call. The 911 call was made by a mortally wounded parent? Or Jayme? After the shots.

Of course, this is just pure speculation as I don't believe anyone - witnesses or LE - have specifically stated that they backed off the 12:31 time of the gunshots.

LE doesn't have to state they have backed off the 12:31 time of gunshots. They never said anything about it in the first place. There is nothing to back off from.

 

[MingyMoo]

Or Denise was already shot and crawled to or pulled out her phone. Or Jayme picked it up and made the call. We know it was Denise's phone, but we don't know who made the call.

Thank you at last someone got the point. Just because the call was made from Denises Phone does not mean Denise made the call. Jayme could have made it, For all, we know the perpetrator could have made the call out of some sick fantasy

 

[Mistermagoo]

I think that we can all agree that DM is a tabloid, however,
THE SHERIFF IS ON VIDEO SAYING THINGS THAT PEOPLE ON HERE ARE THINKING THAT DM IS MAKING UP
Also, I know it is hard to keep up with this thread, it is very long and sometimes goes very fast but I have also seen, time after time, people inquiring about things that were discussed just one page before.

Again, please don't take as an insult but sometimes the answers to questions are right there.

 

[cluciano63]

Maybe whoever fired the two shots contacted police and they are unrelated to the murders.

Anyway...of course LE investigates people they interview. That is why so many people were on the case initially.

 

[MikeRainey82]

The five feet is hypothetical...jmo

If it's not hypothetical, maybe they only stepped 5 feet into the house because of the way the house was laid out. Could be one of those floor plans where the stairs leading to the second floor are directly in front of you upon entering the front door. According to a mock floor plan posted here, I think that is what was implied. In that case, I could picture Jim being shot through the door and Denise being shot running through hall upstairs with the perpetrator standing directly inside front door the entire time.