AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #27

[WiseOwl]

On the subject of the 911 call, i wonder if the yelling heard was the perp(s) at the front door trying to get in? Maybe Denise dialed 911 while they were kicking the door in and she dropped the phone as they broke into the house? The call ended at 00.54 am and LE were there shortly after 1.00 so maybe that time scale is what the Sheriff is using for his belief the perp(s) were there for only 4 minutes?

 

[bellyup]

I’ve been playing scenarios in my head and I’ve come to the conclusion that I believe Jayme made the 911 call.

The perp saw her and motioned for her to hang it up (likely threatened with the gun) and come with him or possibly even said “hang up” and then kicked the phone away.

I don’t see any other explanation to the 911 call that allows Denise to both make the call and also explains why she would have then disconnected it. (Presuming no perp fingerprints on phone).

 

[human]

If it's not hypothetical, maybe they only stepped 5 feet into the house because of the way the house was laid out. Could be one of those floor plans where the stairs leading to the second floor are directly in front of you upon entering the front door. According to a mock floor plan posted here, I think that is what was implied. In that case, I could picture Jim being shot through the door and Denise being shot running through hall upstairs with the perpetrator standing directly inside front door the entire time.

It is not a split entry house. The basement in the front of the house is too low

 

[bellyup]

If it's not hypothetical, maybe they only stepped 5 feet into the house because of the way the house was laid out. Could be one of those floor plans where the stairs leading to the second floor are directly in front of you upon entering the front door. According to a mock floor plan posted here, I think that is what was implied. In that case, I could picture Jim being shot through the door and Denise being shot running through hall upstairs with the perpetrator standing directly inside front door the entire time.

There is no “upstairs” from the main floor of this home. It’s an elevated ranch.

If you are referring to the layout that I posted. The steps would be going down to the garage / basement level.

 

[kc1023]

MOO - We really do not know the order of any of the crimes taking place that night at the Closs home. We think James was killed first and we think Denise was killed second and then we think Jayme was taken but we really do not know. Jayme could have already been taken out of the home before any shots were fired, Denise could have been shot first then James... we just don't know.

I'm not sure what my point is other than maybe we should consider different scenarios based upon a different order of the crimes? I don't know. Without some big bombshell evidence coming to light (such as finding Jayme) it sure doesn't seem like this case is going to be solved any time soon, if at all. It's just so sad and frustrating. MOO

P.S. I think if the shots occurred during the 911 call, the dispatcher would have heard them considering the neighbors seemingly heard the shots from quite a distance.

 

[Rosiebones]

As I recall, your proposed layout put the master bedroom in the back left corner and if DC was there when this started, she would have been behind the wall and would have suddenly appeared about five feet from the left as she came around the corner. Jayme would have come from the right ( the guy who stole her clothes said her bedroom was in the back right corner) and she would have been seen as soon as she looked out her bedroom door.

 

[Deerrun]

I think simply that James was lured to the front door either by banging or something else loud and startling. I say that because it would make sense for DC to grab Jayme and head to the bathroom with her phone and lock themselves in because of the disturbing noise. I think at that point JC was shot through the door by a shotgun and the door kicked in, this is when DC dials 911. Perp prob saw DC and Jayme run into the bathroom and goes directly there (5 feet in and nothing else disturbed). Something people seem to miss is that this is an open floor plan which could make their whereabouts in the home easily known. I think DC was shot immediately before the 911 call connected. I think the killer grabbed Jayme at that point and kicked the phone away (this is when 911 call connects). I think Jayme was crying and screaming and the killer was yelling at her to be quiet by threat which would be why LE says Jayme was home at the time. I believe he threatened her somehow to subdue and have her willingly go with him. I do believe this was a shot gun (2 loud shots), I think spray at first would look like multiple shots fired including possibly hitting a chair with the spray. I think LE did not find DC right away because she was in the bathtub. I do think this is def someone local that is familiar with the area and possibly familiar with the floor plan or the actual home. I believe Jayme was always the target (for SA), obstacles removed in and out in minutes. Possibly they chose this route because parents could have known killer either peripherally or more substantially. I think this was done by a local sex offender/pedophile that became infatuated with Jayme. I believe LE has already interviewed the killer. I think this was planned because of the quickness and clean getaway. I believe the perp already had a place prepared to bring her. This is jmo

 

[kkdj]

I’ve been playing scenarios in my head and I’ve come to the conclusion that I believe Jayme made the 911 call.

The perp saw her and motioned for her to hang it up (likely threatened with the gun) and come with him or possibly even said “hang up” and then kicked the phone away.

I don’t see any other explanation to the 911 call that allows Denise to both make the call and also explains why she would have then disconnected it. (Presuming no perp fingerprints on phone).

This is what I have been thinking too, thay Jayme place the call. Didn't dispatch think they heard the word help? It might have really been "hang up."

 

[photographer4]

Thank you at last someone got the point. Just because the call was made from Denises Phone does not mean Denise made the call. Jayme could have made it, For all, we know the perpetrator could have made the call out of some sick fantasy

I suggested the perp May have called himself once before too! But then who’s yelling in the background? Mom to Jayme?

 

[bizzle2]

On the subject of the 911 call, i wonder if the yelling heard was the perp(s) at the front door trying to get in? Maybe Denise dialed 911 while they were kicking the door in and she dropped the phone as they broke into the house? The call ended at 00.54 am and LE were there shortly after 1.00 so maybe that time scale is what the Sheriff is using for his belief the perp(s) were there for only 4 minutes?

Could very well be.

One thing I just thought of, let's say both Denise and James are at the door as the perp is trying to kick it in. Denise is trying to dial 911 while she helps James hold it closed. Denise drops the phone as perp starts to get through. It lands right behind the door, and as the perp swings the door open the phone is knocked away by the violently swinging door. James is shot almost immediately in front of the door. Denise is screaming. Perp shoots her next. Jayme is also screaming. All of this is captured in the call.

This would explain the yelling/commotion, the police saying that they could tell Jayme was in the house from "something on the 911 call", and as well as the reason the police know the crime happened quickly.

Not saying this is definitely what I think happened, but I think it makes some sense. I guess the one thing about it is that this would mean shots were heard on the 911 call. And I agree with those who say that the dispatcher probably would have put this in the call log. I do wonder if it is possible that the dispatcher just heard really loud noises, but couldn't identify it as gunshots. I don't know what a gunshot sounds like over the phone.

 

[photographer4]

Deleted. Duplicate.

 

[photographer4]

I’ve been playing scenarios in my head and I’ve come to the conclusion that I believe Jayme made the 911 call.

The perp saw her and motioned for her to hang it up (likely threatened with the gun) and come with him or possibly even said “hang up” and then kicked the phone away.

I don’t see any other explanation to the 911 call that allows Denise to both make the call and also explains why she would have then disconnected it. (Presuming no perp fingerprints on phone).

If Jayme called then who is yelling in a different area of the home? If the perp is standing there telling her or motioning for her to move then who’s yelling in a different area? Mom calling to Jayme? Pleading? Then she’s shot after the hang up?

 

[aliensporebomb]

My feeling is that Jayme willingly came to him.

Someone with a firearm that's been recently used to kill more than one person can be pretty persuasive.

 

[Evinrude]

On the subject of the 911 call, i wonder if the yelling heard was the perp(s) at the front door trying to get in? Maybe Denise dialed 911 while they were kicking the door in and she dropped the phone as they broke into the house? The call ended at 00.54 am and LE were there shortly after 1.00 so maybe that time scale is what the Sheriff is using for his belief the perp(s) were there for only 4 minutes?

Sry plausible

 

[Evinrude]

This is what I have been thinking too, thay Jayme place the call. Didn't dispatch think they heard the word help? It might have really been "hang up."

I’ve mentioned this before and honestly don’t remember where I read it, but that they heard “ you don’t have to do this” and “help” over the phone call. I have no way to confirm this however.
Maybe I’m getting forgetful, nowhere near 55 y/o but still.

 

[Stunned]

I’ve mentioned this before and honestly don’t remember where I read it, but that they heard “ you don’t have to do this” and “help” over the phone call. I have no way to confirm this however.
Maybe I’m getting forgetful, nowhere near 55 y/o but still.

You’ll get used too it.

 

[daisy6441]

Denise could have been calling when the door was being kicked open and James was shot. At that point she could have dropped it and ran out to her husband. Phone could have lost signal when it was dropped. It would be in the bedroom and she runs out and is shot possibly falling down behind a sofa and that it why she isn't seen immediately .

 

[JnRyan]

LE doesn't have to state they have backed off the 12:31 time of gunshots. They never said anything about it in the first place. There is nothing to back off from.

No, LE doesn’t have to reveal anything to the public. So probably more accurate would be that LE has neither specifically confirmed nor denied the witness account. And there has been nothing in the media about the witnesses backing off or expressing doubt. (Of course, LE may have since told the witnesses to not talk about the crime.) My point still is that time frame may not be accurate so we have no way of knowing and our speculations can be based on the witness account. Or not.

 

[Rosiebones]

Many times LE knows who did a crime like this but without forensic evidence, witnesses accounts or a confession cannot make a case that will stand up in court. Perhaps that is why they are saying they need to find the gun and why the community is being so quiet about it.

 

[tiffkinsadder]

Where is Jayme?