AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #27

[OhThatVictoria]

How on earth could you think there close to anything on anyone. He said in interview they have 4 scenarios for each possibility... if they were going after Denise / James / jayme... that says to me they have O clue.. we put all our eggs in disgruntled family connection early on.. that’s fizzled we have 0 idea. Perp likely took shotgun with powerful ammo and killed 2 instantly and kidnapped a young girl.. only clue is perp that knows how to use shotgun and likes young girls... that’s a pretty big pool to fish from... unless perp commits crimes with same gun or they find jayme.. think u could be here in 20 yrs with any scenarios fitting because there is no evidence.

Because we don’t know what we don’t know.

 

[DancingMuse]

responding to the original post.....the precision of an instant kill would indicate a seasoned shooter. jmo

You make an excellent point, kkdj.

Perp was definitely a seasoned shooter with accurate marksmaship. (IMO)
a. only 4 minutes in the home.
b. a mere 5 feet into the house.
c. each parent, an "instant" homicide, with one shot only.


Looking at Bellyup's excellent floor plan:
Question: Why was Denise found "in another part of the house" several minutes "later" by Police when they arrived.

Possible Answer: Her body could have been lying on the floor in the kitchen area, and wasn't visible until the police had checked the bedroom to the left, and then walked to the right side of the home. The police then came around the kitchen partition. Perhaps, Denise was lying there, out of view initially, on the other side of kitchen counter.

Possible scenario:

1. At the start of the crime, the Perp makes himself known (doorbell, carlights, yelling, banging on door, etc.).
2. Recognizing a threat, James and Denise both ran towards the front door.
3. Perp begins kicking in the door; More yelling by both James and Denise, back and forth, also with perp.
4. Denise knows the situation is disintegrating, and runs to the kitchen area to grab any weapon: a large knife, wrench, hammer; anything sharp, or heavy or both.
5. Closs' Home is then breached by perp; James is shot immediately near the door.
6. Perp walks 5 ft to the right of the door, and shoots Denise who is in the kitchen area.
​

It was always a rumor that Denise "barricaded" herself in the bathroom.

(IMO) It is more likely that she knew the guns in the locked case would take too long to access, so she fiercely tried to protect her husband and daughter by quickly getting any other available weapon.

There are two other reasons I agree the perp in this crime was a seasoned shooter: ..

d) Denise was likely a fast-moving target; And the perp was only a few feet into the home, .... and accurate with one shot.
e) It was a high-risk and warp-speed crime, which also did not seem to impact the accuracy of the shooter.

​

 

[Andreee]

It may be that the DM contacted him... I have noticed the DM summarizes other news sources, too. Would hope more media outlets would be reaching out as well, but the tabloid nature of the DM does not have an exact match in the US. The closest would be People magazine, possibly. IMO.

I really don't think the sheriff did.

 

[cluciano63]

Far more revealing to me than the 4minutes/5feet...was the link this week where the sheriff said nothing was stolen, not even cash, wallet, jewelry credit cards, etc which were easily accessible. For me this removes all chance of a random home invasion or meth heads...where cash and small objects of value are key, that is what they need for their drugs. Cash or anything they can pawn.

Instead we have a perp enter, remove the parents as obstacles and leave with Jayme all within minutes, leaving no clues and vanishing into the night. In this scenario, Jayme was not an “add on” to the crime but the motive, imo. If the 12:38am shots have been dismissed or otherwise explained, this was all too quick to turn into much of a decision—making affair of whether to kill Jayme or take her. If she wasn’t the motive, she would have been found within 5-10 miles by now...jmo

 

[cluciano63]

But I also think the “5 feet” was a remark as to nothing else being disturbed rather than a measurement...jmo

 

[Gumbeaux]

Are they "investigating" anyone at that plant? LE said they talked to people there, LOL, that's not investigating.

Investigating would very much involve talking to people at the plant. Beyond that, I don’t believe LE wishes to divulge specific investigational tactics.

As with every case, I pray what they are holding close leads to answers soon — and finding Jayme.

 

[kkdj]

You make an excellent point, kkdj.

Perp was definitely a seasoned shooter with accurate marksmaship. (IMO)
a. only 4 minutes in the home.
b. a mere 5 feet into the house.
c. each parent, an "instant" homicide, with one shot only.


Looking at Bellyup's excellent floor plan:
Question: Why was Denise found "in another part of the house" several minutes "later" by Police when they arrived.

Possible Answer: Her body could have been lying on the floor in the kitchen area, and wasn't visible until the police had checked the bedroom to the left, and then walked to the right side of the home. The police then came around the kitchen partition. Perhaps, Denise was lying there, out of view initially, on the other side of kitchen counter.

Possible scenario:

1. At the start of the crime, the Perp makes himself known (doorbell, carlights, yelling, banging on door, etc.).
2. Recognizing a threat, James and Denise both ran towards the front door.
3. Perp begins kicking in the door; More yelling by both James and Denise, back and forth, also with perp.
4. Denise knows the situation is disintegrating, and runs to the kitchen area to grab any weapon: a large knife, wrench, hammer; anything sharp, or heavy or both.
5. Closs' Home is then breached by perp; James is shot immediately near the door.
6. Perp walks 5 ft to the right of the door, and shoots Denise who is in the kitchen area.
​

It was always a rumor that Denise "barricaded" herself in the bathroom.

(IMO) It is more likely that she knew the guns in the locked case would take too long to access, so she fiercely tried to protect her husband and daughter by quickly getting any other available weapon.

There are two other reasons I agree the perp in this crime was a seasoned shooter: ..

d) Denise was likely a fast-moving target; And the perp was only a few feet into the home, .... and accurate with one shot.
e) It was a high-risk and warp-speed crime, which also did not seem to impact the accuracy of the shooter.

​

Great post!

 

[Confusion]

I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about this since I just read about the DM article tonight, so please forgive the holes in the theory. Is it possible that someone started pounding on the door shortly before one, and all 3 ran to the living room to see what was going on? Denise may have handed her phone to Jayme and told her to go hide in her room and call 911 if anything happens. Jayme may have called as soon as she heard the first shot or the door being kicked in. The guy is yelling at Denise and James' body as he shoots her. He may have continued yelling about whatever he was upset about, or he may have been yelling for Jayme to come out because he had seen her through the window of the door. She hasn't said anything and hangs up the phone because she's afraid he'll hear the talking.

After a minute or so he becomes quiet and a car starts outside, and she goes to check on her parents after another minute or so. As she's running over to her mother's body, she notices that he's standing in the doorway pointing a gun at her. She drops the phone and freezes, and he tells her to go with him or he'll shoot her too. She goes with him, and they are out of there before the first responders are within sight. The reason they know she was home is that the call was made from a different room than the one where the murders took place (judging by the background noises the operator hears), and her fingerprints were the last ones on the 9 and 1 of the phone (can they even tell that?)

I have no idea how likely any of this is, and how possible some of it is, but I haven't had as much time lately to give a lot of serious thought to scenarios. Hope something in here is helpful. MOO

 

[desertstorm]

That makes sense. It would’ve been a good call.

I don't post very often but I remember Mark Furhman saying that he thinks Denise was the target. I wonder who he spoke to and what he was told. I listened to the interview with Denise's brother and sisters and I get the feeling they along with LE know who has done this. LE is under no obligation to release any info to the public, this is a double homicide along with a probable kidnapping. The guns are gone, a lot of water in this area. Jayme possibly was passed on to someone else if still alive. With very little evidence, LE has to be positive they can make an arrest that will stick. Remember how long it took to make an arrest in the Rhoden family murders. Very little evidence in that case. The Leads in this case Local LE or FBI know this family better then their relatives, and it probably is eating away at them every single minute of every day. I feel this case will be solved and the perp(s) are brought to justice.
JMO

 

[tmar]

I haven't spent a lot of time thinking about this since I just read about the DM article tonight, so please forgive the holes in the theory. Is it possible that someone started pounding on the door shortly before one, and all 3 ran to the living room to see what was going on? Denise may have handed her phone to Jayme and told her to go hide in her room and call 911 if anything happens. Jayme may have called as soon as she heard the first shot or the door being kicked in. The guy is yelling at Denise and James' body as he shoots her. He may have continued yelling about whatever he was upset about, or he may have been yelling for Jayme to come out because he had seen her through the window of the door. She hasn't said anything and hangs up the phone because she's afraid he'll hear the talking.

After a minute or so he becomes quiet and a car starts outside, and she goes to check on her parents after another minute or so. As she's running over to her mother's body, she notices that he's standing in the doorway pointing a gun at her. She drops the phone and freezes, and he tells her to go with him or he'll shoot her too. She goes with him, and they are out of there before the first responders are within sight. The reason they know she was home is that the call was made from a different room than the one where the murders took place (judging by the background noises the operator hears), and her fingerprints were the last ones on the 9 and 1 of the phone (can they even tell that?)

I have no idea how likely any of this is, and how possible some of it is, but I haven't had as much time lately to give a lot of serious thought to scenarios. Hope something in here is helpful. MOO

In a Crime Fiction Novel which I recently read, the Police were able to determine, the last finger print: ie. finger prints OVER finger prints.
I guess in the Closs case, fingerprints on 911.
MOO.

 

[mrsc72]

OT
Arrest in Hania Aguilar's murder!
FBI: Arrest made in kidnapping, murder of Hania Aguilar

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I’m agreeing but wondering why does Fitz say no sign that Jayme resisted going with someone? Is that a possible means to try to protect her from a captor now? To imply of course she wanted to go with whomever has her? Only thing I can think of to explain the no resistance comment. Unless we don’t consider her screaming as resistance (if indeed she was doing so?)

I find that puzzling and for some reason I am offended by his statement.

What did he expect this tiny little 100 pound girl to do? Fight this brute who had already murdered her parents in cold blood?

Imo she would be paralyzed with fear and would have done everything he commanded her to do like so many other victims have done many times before.

It does show though that Jayme wasnt allowed to take anything with her or they would have seen things missing in her room and evidence the drawers were gone through quickly.

Imo this shows Jayme never knew this was going to happen until the monster invaded the safe space of their home and brought evil with him in the worst form.

My heart breaks for Jayme and how terrified she must have been.

It would rip her heart out seeing the two people she loved above all others laying on the floor bloodied and dead. She wasnt even allowed to hug them and tell them one last time how much she loved them.

In a flash she was taken away by the one who would make her living nightmares neverending.

Jmo

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Oops duplicate posting

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I do not believe the weapon he used was a shotgun.

I have never seen police officers refer to shotgun SHELLS as bullet CASINGS.
They know there is distinct difference in the terminology of both. They are taught this during the first phase of police training.

They have to testify in court on cases where they were at the crime scene. They would never testify they found bullet casings at the scene when they actually had found shotgun shells. They would come across as inept if they didnt even know the difference and the defense would pounce on that with both feet. Imo

More people have been murdered by handguns more than any other firearm by far.

Handguns most certainly has caused thousands of homicides where the victims died instantly.

All of thses shots to Jim and Denise were close range shots. It wasnt like he was having to aim and fire from many feet or yards away from his targets.

For years the police used their service handguns to blow the lock off of entry doors if the suspect refused to come out.

Now they have a portable battering ramming tool they use to breech entry.

So I am convinced he used some type of handgun and that is why Fitzgerald said they found multiple bullet casings at the scene. He absolutely knows the difference in shells vs. bullet casings.

That means by now they have long known what type of handgun they are looking for...

Imo

 

[JudgeJoe]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.th...-teen-jayme-closs-kidnapping_2732856.html/amp

Interesting “new” points. Sheriff says, “But if I’m in your house for minutes and I only step five feet inside your home I’m probably not going to leave a big footprint.”

But still don’t understand how Jayme could have been abducted if perp was only ever 5 feet inside. Yes, at gunpoint & with parents shot- but still, seems she would have hid & he/they would have had to find her. Denise could have still dialed 911 before her “instant” death. So sickening, this case. With this new info, it seems even more video-game like, as if someone did it for the thrill/ challenge/ dare of it. If so, this is not the type of person who could keep that a secret. IMO, would be boastful about it. Must be someone who knows who the killer is, besides the killer, of course.

 

[stephlovescheese]

OT
Arrest in Hania Aguilar's murder!
FBI: Arrest made in kidnapping, murder of Hania Aguilar

Thanks for posting! OMG what is wrong with people?! So terribly sad.

 

[MesquiteO21]

Which would rule out a younger person/teen.

my thoughts exactly

 

[MesquiteO21]

Far more revealing to me than the 4minutes/5feet...was the link this week where the sheriff said nothing was stolen, not even cash, wallet, jewelry credit cards, etc which were easily accessible. For me this removes all chance of a random home invasion or meth heads...where cash and small objects of value are key, that is what they need for their drugs. Cash or anything they can pawn.

Instead we have a perp enter, remove the parents as obstacles and leave with Jayme all within minutes, leaving no clues and vanishing into the night. In this scenario, Jayme was not an “add on” to the crime but the motive, imo. If the 12:38am shots have been dismissed or otherwise explained, this was all too quick to turn into much of a decision—making affair of whether to kill Jayme or take her. If she wasn’t the motive, she would have been found within 5-10 miles by now...jmo

Exactly. I felt immediately from the beginning that Jayme must've been the intended target. As time went on and we didn't know any new info, I started playing around with all sorts of scenarios and I entertained the thought of wrong house, meth heads, etc. but this info now solidifies for me that the intention was to take Jayme and to kill mom and dad instantly so they wouldn't have a chance of survival (and therefore possibly identifying him).

 

[rosesfromangels]

Exactly. I felt immediately from the beginning that Jayme must've been the intended target. As time went on and we didn't know any new info, I started playing around with all sorts of scenarios and I entertained the thought of wrong house, meth heads, etc. but this info now solidifies for me that the intention was to take Jayme and to kill mom and dad instantly so they wouldn't have a chance of survival (and therefore possibly identifying him).

I would take the "exclusive" with the DailyMailTV (who the heck is that?) with a big grain of sea salt.
Here's what I'm trying to logic out, and haven't yet.
If Jayme were the intended purpose of the attack, why kill two people?
Why not grab her in a different location where she was alone and it wouldn't require murder?

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[RoChEsTeR Paul]

And where would that be? I'm sure the perp thought about it. But in this day and age, where and when could he snatch a young girl who is completely alone without being seen? Anywhere in daylight or in public would most likely be noticed immediately or caught on camera somewhere. Whoever did this had complete cover of darkness in the middle of the night