AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #27

[sbsuzilight]

OT
Arrest in Hania Aguilar's murder!
FBI: Arrest made in kidnapping, murder of Hania Aguilar

Thank you for posting this. It's great news!

 

[photographer4]

I feel pretty confident a shotgun wasn't used. The responding LE saying he saw multiple shells spent is one reason for my belief. Yes, shotguns use shotgun shells, but I don't think that was the type of shell the LE responder was referring to; I suspect he'd have said multiple spent shotgun shells, if that were the case. Jmo, of course.

If I'm not mistaken, the log says "multiple rounds spent"...

You make an excellent point, kkdj.

Perp was definitely a seasoned shooter with accurate marksmaship. (IMO)
a. only 4 minutes in the home.
b. a mere 5 feet into the house.
c. each parent, an "instant" homicide, with one shot only.


Looking at Bellyup's excellent floor plan:
Question: Why was Denise found "in another part of the house" several minutes "later" by Police when they arrived.

Possible Answer: Her body could have been lying on the floor in the kitchen area, and wasn't visible until the police had checked the bedroom to the left, and then walked to the right side of the home. The police then came around the kitchen partition. Perhaps, Denise was lying there, out of view initially, on the other side of kitchen counter.

Possible scenario:

1. At the start of the crime, the Perp makes himself known (doorbell, carlights, yelling, banging on door, etc.).
2. Recognizing a threat, James and Denise both ran towards the front door.
3. Perp begins kicking in the door; More yelling by both James and Denise, back and forth, also with perp.
4. Denise knows the situation is disintegrating, and runs to the kitchen area to grab any weapon: a large knife, wrench, hammer; anything sharp, or heavy or both.
5. Closs' Home is then breached by perp; James is shot immediately near the door.
6. Perp walks 5 ft to the right of the door, and shoots Denise who is in the kitchen area.
​

It was always a rumor that Denise "barricaded" herself in the bathroom.

(IMO) It is more likely that she knew the guns in the locked case would take too long to access, so she fiercely tried to protect her husband and daughter by quickly getting any other available weapon.

There are two other reasons I agree the perp in this crime was a seasoned shooter: ..

d) Denise was likely a fast-moving target; And the perp was only a few feet into the home, .... and accurate with one shot.
e) It was a high-risk and warp-speed crime, which also did not seem to impact the accuracy of the shooter.

​

Your proposed theory makes good sense to me. I still wonder though how many shots were fired based on LE's remark in the log "multiple rounds spent".
I don't know much about guns, so I guess I was wondering does the term "rounds" give us any indication on what type of gun was used? Also, how many bullets could a shotgun hold before it needed reloading? Or a revolver? Just wondering. And not specifically directed at you Pretty Go Pale, just raising points your post raised for me.

 

[RoChEsTeR Paul]

'Rounds' would have me thinking it's a handgun. 'Shell's would have definitely meant shotgun in my opinion. LE knows the weapon used, so I'm hoping they are checking gun permits of every person interviewed as to whether they might have that particular gun listed

 

[JnRyan]

I would take the "exclusive" with the DailyMailTV (who the heck is that?) with a big grain of sea salt.
Here's what I'm trying to logic out, and haven't yet.
If Jayme were the intended purpose of the attack, why kill two people?
Why not grab her in a different location where she was alone and it wouldn't require murder?

Amateur opinion and speculation

While I tend to believe Jayme was the target, that is my biggest issue with that theory. If he catches her somewhere alone it might be hours before LE is on the case and LE may have difficulty even finding the crime scene. If they find the scene. For every scenario in this case I can see a reason why it would not make sense.

 

[Rosiebones]

What if this crime had almost nothing to do with these 3 victims but was carried out to inflict pain and horror on someone else?

 

[JnRyan]

'Rounds' would have me thinking it's a handgun. 'Shell's would have definitely meant shotgun in my opinion. LE knows the weapon used, so I'm hoping they are checking gun permits of every person interviewed as to whether they might have that particular gun listed

That won't do much good in Wisconsin. Wisconsin does not require a permit to buy or own a gun and there is no gun registration. And tracking a gun purchase is a long and labor intensive process even if you know the specific gun by serial number.

 

[rosesfromangels]

And where would that be? I'm sure the perp thought about it. But in this day and age, where and when could he snatch a young girl who is completely alone without being seen? Anywhere in daylight or in public would most likely be noticed immediately or caught on camera somewhere. Whoever did this had complete cover of darkness in the middle of the night

Yes, I thought of this as well, but my speculations are meaningless without knowing her schedule and whether she ever had alone time (x-country running, or whatever).

This does lead me though, to wonder if Jayme did ever have alone, unsupervised time. It also leads me to wonder why a twelve-thirteen year old needed a "caretaker" and various decisions were made based on where the caretaker lived.

Meaning, if I understand correctly, the parents worked different shifts. Doesn't this mean one would be home and available to Jayme if she needed them? (Albeit, they may have had to be woken up).

Why did a young teen need a "caretaker"? Usually a 12/13 year old is babysitting younger kids vs. needing a caretaker.

Anyone have any insights to this? It may be a an important point as it relates to this crime. Was there a pervious indident(s) that required Jayme to be carefully monitored and guarded?

Amateur opinion and speculation

 

[RoChEsTeR Paul]

That won't do much good in Wisconsin. Wisconsin does not require a permit to buy or own a gun and there is no gun registration. And tracking a gun purchase is a long and labor intensive process even if you know the specific gun by serial number.

I'm talking about handguns. Does Wisconsin not require carry permits for those?

 

[Evinrude]

If I'm not mistaken, the log says "multiple rounds spent"...


Your proposed theory makes good sense to me. I still wonder though how many shots were fired based on LE's remark in the log "multiple rounds spent".
I don't know much about guns, so I guess I was wondering does the term "rounds" give us any indication on what type of gun was used? Also, how many bullets could a shotgun hold before it needed reloading? Or a revolver? Just wondering. And not specifically directed at you Pretty Go Pale, just raising points your post raised for me.
Could also be an assault rifle (e.g. ak47), when modified it can fire several shots consecutively. Not hard to buy these, not hard to modify either.

 

[Gumbeaux]

After watching the series “Ozark,” this feels all the more like a planned hit. How the disappearance of Jayme fits, I do not know. I pray her aunt is onto something with feeling she is being held locally.

All of the dissing of the Daily Mail could be applied to many news outlets, they all thrive on Dirty Laundry. What the DM does well is photojournalism — any world event they publish the best photos.

 

[JnRyan]

I'm talking about handguns. Does Wisconsin not require carry permits for those?

If you're going to carry the gun concealed, then yes, you would need a concealed permit. But the majority of handgun owners don't apply for them. And criminals don't usually see the need to obey the law and obtain one. And if a shotgun was used, then there are no permits required. Wisconsin is also a state that allows 'open' carry. That is, if the gun is in holster on your belt and not concealed, then no permit is required.

 

[Trino]

Yes, I thought of this as well, but my speculations are meaningless without knowing her schedule and whether she ever had alone time (x-country running, or whatever).

This does lead me though, to wonder if Jayme did ever have alone, unsupervised time. It also leads me to wonder why a twelve-thirteen year old needed a "caretaker" and various decisions were made based on where the caretaker lived.

Meaning, if I understand correctly, the parents worked different shifts. Doesn't this mean one would be home and available to Jayme if she needed them? (Albeit, they may have had to be woken up).

Why did a young teen need a "caretaker"? Usually a 12/13 year old is babysitting younger kids vs. needing a caretaker.

Anyone have any insights to this? It may be a an important point as it relates to this crime. Was there a pervious indident(s) that required Jayme to be carefully monitored and guarded?

Amateur opinion and speculation

I brought the "caretaker" up many posts ago and got hammered by posters, but I still am amazed a 13 yr old needed a caretaker. My grandson started getting himself off to school in the middle of grade 4, as were many of his friends. He was 10 1/2. His mom called him every morning to make certain everything was okay. And, yes, he is a good student, well-behaved. He is now in grade 6.

At age 13, kids are being dropped off at the local mall, are going on their own to friend's homes. Around here by age 13 they go to the ski hills or the skating rink (winter) to meet friends. The legal limit in the county where I live says kids 11-13 can be left alone for 12 hours. Barron Co., Wisconsin has no age limits for kids to be left alone.

But, maybe I'm just too progressive.

 

[peace9274]

I brought the "caretaker" up many posts ago and got hammered by posters, but I still am amazed a 13 yr old needed a caretaker. My grandson started getting himself off to school in the middle of grade 4, as were many of his friends. He was 10 1/2. His mom called him every morning to make certain everything was okay. And, yes, he is a good student, well-behaved. He is now in grade 6.

At age 13, kids are being dropped off at the local mall, are going on their own to friend's homes. Around here by age 13 they go to the ski hills or the skating rink (winter) to meet friends. The legal limit in the county where I live says kids 11-13 can be left alone for 12 hours. Barron Co., Wisconsin has no age limits for kids to be left alone.

But, maybe I'm just too progressive.

MOO
I believe the caretaker was for Jayme mainly to help with transportation to and from her after school activities and sports, sick days, snow days, school vacations.

And possibly to stay over night if her parents needed to work OT, possibly the night shift.

I also believe the caretaker started several years ago when Jayme was going to a different school and just continued.

Maybe attending a new school this year and with her taking the bus to her home, she didn’t need the caretaker as much. But she still needed transportation and if she had health issues, needed to have a caretaker when home sick.

 

[JnRyan]

I'm talking about handguns. Does Wisconsin not require carry permits for those?

Sorry for the 2nd post, but after further research I find that Wisconsin does not have 'concealed handgun' permits, but rather they issue 'concealed weapon' permits which is a much broader coverage.
For example in my state they issue 'concealed handgun' permits. If I'm carrying a handgun concealed and I have a CHP I am legal. BUT if LE catches me with a concealed blackjack, taser or knife over a certain length I can be arrested. Wisconsin, OTH, issues CWP and this would cover someone carrying a concealed club, knife or electronic weapon as well as a handgun. Neither WI or my state require you to list what handgun you might be carrying, so even if LE determines an individual has a permit LE still does not know what type or caliber handgun the holder might have. LE can ask, but they would probably need probable cause to search a residence to verify.
And, of course, if a shotgun was used then all of this irrelevant as no permit is required to buy, possess or carry a shotgun. As long as the person can pass a LE background check at the time of purchase they're covered.

 

[Trino]

MOO
I believe the caretaker was for Jayme mainly to help with transportation to and from her after school activities and sports, sick days, snow days, school vacations.

And possibly to stay over night if her parents needed to work OT, possibly the night shift.

I also believe the caretaker started several years ago when Jayme was going to a different school and just continued.

Maybe attending a new school this year and with her taking the bus to her home, she didn’t need the caretaker as much. But she still needed transportation and if she had health issues, needed to have a caretaker when home sick.

Do we know all this? The caretaker's hours? Days? The only after-school activity was x-country that we know.

 

[aliensporebomb]

I brought the "caretaker" up many posts ago and got hammered by posters, but I still am amazed a 13 yr old needed a caretaker. My grandson started getting himself off to school in the middle of grade 4, as were many of his friends. He was 10 1/2. His mom called him every morning to make certain everything was okay. And, yes, he is a good student, well-behaved. He is now in grade 6.

At age 13, kids are being dropped off at the local mall, are going on their own to friend's homes. Around here by age 13 they go to the ski hills or the skating rink (winter) to meet friends. The legal limit in the county where I live says kids 11-13 can be left alone for 12 hours. Barron Co., Wisconsin has no age limits for kids to be left alone.

But, maybe I'm just too progressive.

I thought the caretaker was her aunt, not a hired person. Just so she had some adult supervision when her parents were off to work. Remember this isn't a suburban area where she can walk to various areas but they're on a highway - cars are kind of a necessity.

 

[Trino]

I thought the caretaker was her aunt, not a hired person. Just so she had some adult supervision when her parents were off to work. Remember this isn't a suburban area where she can walk to various areas but they're on a highway - cars are kind of a necessity.

It would be interesting to know more about the interaction of the caretaker. When was she with Jayme? If the caretaker took her places, where were they? Why is she called a caretaker rather than just her aunt? Seems odd to me.

 

[Oakland CA]

I brought the "caretaker" up many posts ago and got hammered by posters, but I still am amazed a 13 yr old needed a caretaker. My grandson started getting himself off to school in the middle of grade 4, as were many of his friends. He was 10 1/2. His mom called him every morning to make certain everything was okay. And, yes, he is a good student, well-behaved. He is now in grade 6.

At age 13, kids are being dropped off at the local mall, are going on their own to friend's homes. Around here by age 13 they go to the ski hills or the skating rink (winter) to meet friends. The legal limit in the county where I live says kids 11-13 can be left alone for 12 hours. Barron Co., Wisconsin has no age limits for kids to be left alone.

But, maybe I'm just too progressive.

Just because one family feels their child doesn't need a "caretaker", doesn't mean the family next door shouldn't use one.

I say...to each his own

 

[kkdj]

I would take the "exclusive" with the DailyMailTV (who the heck is that?) with a big grain of sea salt.
Here's what I'm trying to logic out, and haven't yet.
If Jayme were the intended purpose of the attack, why kill two people?
Why not grab her in a different location where she was alone and it wouldn't require murder?

Amateur opinion and speculation

BBM
I've given this lot of thought and all I can figure out is because the parents would know who took her and they would go after that person with a fury. To the perp, this was the safest way to accomplish his goal and not get caught. jmo

 

[Trino]

I have no found any place online that suggests an average ability age 13 pre-teen needs a baby-sitter/aka a caretaker. I can understand the need for at times transportation and school holidays, but it seems as if the caretaker idea was much more often, although didn't we find out that Jayme took a school bus? Again, when and where did the auntie/caretaker take Jayme or "watch" her? This could be important as to Jayme and interactions with others, the possible killer. Maybe the auntie did drop Jayme off...