AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #30

[Steelslady]

I don't get it either. if they think she can just come home like it seems is thought then they must have a idea of who she is with, and if they have a idea of who she is with then why would LE not put that info out to help find them?

I know- that's what I mean by this is a head scratcher.

I have wondered, has she contacted anyone? I don't want to name the victim in another case because she was a minor at the time, but she was able to write a letter home to her parents (and the perp did drop her off at the end of her street- big case on here)- has Jayme been allowed to do the same and LE and family are keeping quiet, hoping the perp lets her go?

This case is heartbreaking alone with Jayme being missing after her parents murders. Nothing makes sense, no leads, no evidence left behind. Somehow, the perp got her out of there within four minutes and they just......vanished. No one saw a car in either direction go by with Jayme in it. No screaming heard from any neighbors. Yet the neighbors heard loud shots- one that sounded like a car backfiring. No foot prints, tire tracks. Nothing.

 

[CarmenOhio88]

I don't get it either. if they think she can just come home like it seems is thought then they must have a idea of who she is with, and if they have a idea of who she is with then why would LE not put that info out to help find them?

Reading between the lines, I'm guessing the police think she left willingly or mostly willingly. If you put yourself in their shoes, and evaluate the evidence and absence of evidence as dispassionately as possible, it's not entirely unreasonable to entertain that conclusion. Pages on here were dedicated to figuring out how the murderer absconded with Jayme without leaving any of her dna behind, or footprints through the blood, etc. Maybe police think the simplest answer is worth exploring: that there was no struggle involving Jayme. After that, draw your own conclusions at your peril.

That said, even if police do think she may have left willingly, that doesn't mean they have any idea who she could be with.

*To be clear, these are not exactly my views on the matter. Just trying to see this from an LEO perspective.

 

[Marzipan]

I have never heard or read any indication that LE knew the girls

True. Maybe it’s because the log refers to Cheyenne by first name only when advising they were asked to go home. Could be because her last name is already captured earlier in log. Just makes it sound more like they know her. Perhaps she is a daughter of a police officer who listens to scanner when parent is at work and got worried for parent. Just a thought. No idea if likely.

 

[The Dude]

Yet another random thought...

It’s always seemed to me that the general concensus (myself included) is that the sequence of that nights events placed the shootings immediately after the kicked in door (or at least very shortly thereafter), and that Jayme was in the house and witnessed her parents being slain - or at the very least saw her deceased parents.

But we really don’t know this, do we? Isn’t it just as possible that she was removed or left the house before the really ugly stuff happened?

 

[Fascinated1]

C,JL and R,JL were the names of the girls. I did a screen shot on my phone of the six page dispatch entry online because I was leaving my house soon at the time I looked it up and meant to look at it more closely later and hate to admit but have been lazy and have just never deleted it.

I think C,JL is Jayme. R,JL is Cheyenne’s friend. I’ve not been able to find an easy link between the 3 of them to explain why they would be there so soon after the crime was committed.

 

[1987]

Yet another random thought...

It’s always seemed to me that the general concensus (myself included) is that the sequence of that nights events placed the shootings immediately after the kicked in door (or at least very shortly thereafter), and that Jayme was in the house and witnessed her parents being slain - or at the very least saw her deceased parents.

But we really don’t know this, do we? Isn’t it just as possible that she was removed or left the house before the really ugly stuff happened?

it is the 911 call and sheriff saying she was there that keeps bring us back to her being in there and seeing it all.

 

[mom2chloe]

I think C,JL is Jayme. R,JL is Cheyenne’s friend. I’ve not been able to find an easy link between the 3 of them to explain why they would be there so soon after the crime was committed.

Perhaps they (Cheyenne and the other minor girl) were so persistent in the area because they were looking to score meth from the dealer who was busted shortly afterward? Might also explain why LE was acquainted with her/them and instructed them to go home?

 

[Fascinated1]

it is the 911 call and sheriff saying she was there that keeps bring us back to her being in there and seeing it all.

I was questioning this earlier as well. Maybe they took her in the 1/2 hour time between gunshots and 911 call?? There was a lot of noise in the background but what if it was Denise yelling to james (somewhere in an earlier thread there was a quote that he was still alive when the police arrived). Or the dog barking. It might not have been the intruders that they heard. Maybe Denise was yellingnfor Jayme (but she was not there) This seems to fit with the “suicide” theory because if the intruders were yelling it might have been classified as a home invasion not suicide by the 911 operator . Plus-LE didn’t notice the door had been kicked in right away and they didn’t declare Jayme missing right away. I think they took her and left when the neighbors heard the shots.

 

[The Dude]

it is the 911 call and sheriff saying she was there that keeps bring us back to her being in there and seeing it all.

Yes, she was there and in the house for a duration during the event, but were there shots heard on the 911 call? Do we know the actual sequence?

 

[Trino]

Maybe she does.

I keep wondering why there's no plea to the perps to return Jayme home. Such a head scratcher to me. They keep pleading with Jayme to come home, like the poor girl has a choice to do so. As if pictures of her dog that isn't eating and missing her is seen by her. I mean, if a perp had me and LE/my family posted photos like that, and the perp allowed me to see them, I'd be so upset and devastated. She obviously loved her dog, lost her parents and is going through God knows what, if she is still alive. I really feel these photos wouldn't help make her feel better or more loved, but worse because she can't come home to comfort the dog or family.

Maybe she can come home. We are permitted to say this. Here's the quote from the moderator: "While it is NOT okay at all to state that Jayme is definitely responsible for any part of this crime or her disappearance, we are allowing members to state their opinion that Jayme could be involved in her own disappearance."

 

[DancingMuse]

<modsnip: quoted post was removed>

We might not be giving Canines enough credit to solve crimes though. (JMO)

About Our Dogs (Text Version)


Fourth paragraph, BBM:

"A dog can use all of his/her senses, like hearing, seeing, and smelling to find a specific person or thing. To do this, though, requires a lot of training. They are always practicing, but the dogs love it because it is what they were born to do.​

I want to know: If this is true, ..... could a pet canine identify a perp's voice?

At one point, early on, Sheriff Fitzgerald said "we've probably talked to the person who did this" . (Can't find the link right now.)

This implies that LE has talked to a lot of Locals while exhaustively pouring through their 2000 tips, and it is likely,....and they admit this, ...... that they might have already questioned the perp(s) without knowing it. (IMO)

There is probably no budget for this plan written below, because of the HUGE cost of dog biscuits, but in-a-perfect-world, ....... it would be great if .....:

a) LE picks the top ten POI's that they have on their "internal list" from all the initial tips and investigations, and request that these citizens come to the police station for a chat. (If someone refuses, and then brings a lawyer, .....that's food for thought too, non?) They interview each one, and they record (audio and video) of each of these ten conversations (if this hasn't been done already for some folks, esp. those already being held on other charges). LE subsequently thanks each of them for this routine follow-up discussion, and sends them on their way.

b) Then LE canine handlers have Jayme's dog listen to each of the ten conversations.

c) And, LE canine handlers have the Smrekars' dog listen to each of the ten conversations.

d) (It might be a good idea to precede this activity ....... with a playing back each time of the "cleaned up" 47-second 911-call, so that each canine "remembers back" to that horrific night. Ugh. )

e) LE would then gauge if either canine have any reaction to a particular POI's voice recording out of the ten: .... by exhibiting growling, twitching, teeth-baring, whining, barking, discomfort, etc. because that dog recognizes the perp's voice while he is speaking conversationally in response to police questions.

(During these interviews, LE could even provide a single sentence which is requested that the POI yell out loud, to better simulate the tone and volume of his voice that night in October. A lawyer would most likely object to all of this. Too bad. )​

And what if BOTH dogs show some kind of reaction to the SAME POI's voice recording ? That would be very interesting. The Smrekars' dog was also agitated that night. Their canine can sort of provide "confirmation" for the reaction of Jayme's dog, who was much closer to the crime scene. (IMO)

As more validation, the FBI would bring their own dogs to "compare" the "cleaned up" 911 call ...to the 10 audio recordings also, as they have special training in this, with their Handlers.

REALLY GRABBING AT STRAWS HERE!
(Beside, I'm a cat person, and don't know much about dog's capabilities!!!!!)

I WANT THIS SOLVED!

<edited to remove incorrect apostrophes>​

 

[Trino]

Dude, you bring up a good point. We might not be giving Canines enough credit to solve crimes though. (JMO)

About Our Dogs (Text Version)


Fourth paragraph, BBM:

"A dog can use all of his/her senses, like hearing, seeing, and smelling to find a specific person or thing. To do this, though, requires a lot of training. They are always practicing, but the dogs love it because it is what they were born to do.​

I want to know: If this is true, ..... could a pet canine identify a perp's voice?

At one point, early on, Sheriff Fitzgerald said "we've probably talked to the person who did this" . (Can't find the link right now.)

This implies that LE has talked to a lot of Locals while exhaustively pouring through their 2000 tips, and it is likely,....and they admit this, ...... that they might have already questioned the perp(s) without knowing it. (IMO)

There is probably no budget for this plan written below, because of the HUGE cost of dog biscuits, but in-a-perfect-world, ....... it would be great if .....:

a) LE picks the top ten POI's that they have on their "internal list" from all the initial tips and investigations, and request that these citizens come to the police station for a chat. (If someone refuses, and then brings a lawyer, .....that's food for thought too, non?) They interview each one, and they record (audio and video) of each of these ten conversations (if this hasn't been done already for some folks, esp. those already being held on other charges). LE subsequently thanks each of them for this routine follow-up discussion, and sends them on their way.

b) Then LE canine handler's have Jayme's dog listen to each of the ten conversations.

c) And, LE canine handler's have the Smrekars' dog listen to each of the ten conversations.

d) (It might be a good idea to precede this activity ....... with a playing back each time of the "cleaned up" 47-second 911-call, so that each canine "remembers back" to that horrific night. Ugh. )

e) LE would then gauge if either canine have any reaction to a particular POI's voice recording out of the ten: .... by exhibiting growling, twitching, teeth-baring, whining, barking, discomfort, etc. because that dog recognizes the perp's voice while he is speaking conversationally in response to police questions.

(During these interviews, LE could even provide a single sentence which is requested that the POI yell out loud, to better simulate the tone and volume of his voice that night in October. A lawyer would most likely object to all of this. Too bad. )​

And what if BOTH dogs show some kind of reaction to the SAME POI's voice recording ? That would be very interesting. The Smrekars' dog was also agitated that night. Their canine can sort of provide "confirmation" for the reaction of Jayme's dog, who was much closer to the crime scene. (IMO)

As more validation, the FBI would bring their own dogs to "compare" the "cleaned up" 911 call ...to the 10 audio recordings also, as they have special training in this, with their Handlers.

REALLY GRABBING AT STRAWS HERE!
(Beside, I'm a cat person, and don't know much about dog's capabilities!!!!!)

I WANT THIS SOLVED!

​

I hope you're laughing with me when I say this is bizarre. But, nothing else has worked.

 

[IceIce9]

Maybe she can come home. We are permitted to say this. Here's the quote from the moderator: "While it is NOT okay at all to state that Jayme is definitely responsible for any part of this crime or her disappearance, we are allowing members to state their opinion that Jayme could be involved in her own disappearance."

With the above in mind, I will mention that in my opinion, when this case first broke and the only photo of Jayme we saw was the widely circulated Amber Alert photo where she looked very young and childish, I thought there was no way that she could be involved in her own disappearance.

But since many other photos of Jayme have been posted, which show her looking like a typical teenager rather than a child, I would now say “maybe” she was involved in her own disappearance. IMO.

If she was involved in her own disappearance I doubt if she knew her parents were going to be harmed. Again, just my opinion.

I still think it is more likely that she was not involved in her disappearance. But after seeing more recent photos of Jayme I would say it could be possible, even if the possibility is slight.

 

[Jax49]

I was questioning this earlier as well. Maybe they took her in the 1/2 hour time between gunshots and 911 call?? There was a lot of noise in the background but what if it was Denise yelling to james (somewhere in an earlier thread there was a quote that he was still alive when the police arrived). Or the dog barking. It might not have been the intruders that they heard. Maybe Denise was yellingnfor Jayme (but she was not there) This seems to fit with the “suicide” theory because if the intruders were yelling it might have been classified as a home invasion not suicide by the 911 operator . Plus-LE didn’t notice the door had been kicked in right away and they didn’t declare Jayme missing right away. I think they took her and left when the neighbors heard the shots.

bbm

There was some confusion caused by inaccurate MSM reports and unclear statements by LE but both were deceased when LE arrived.

When deputies arrived on scene they found two deceased adults.

Quote from post #4.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Yes, she was there and in the house for a duration during the event, but were there shots heard on the 911 call? Do we know the actual sequence?

No shots... just yelling...

But dispatcher didn’t say kid yelling..???

And took an hour to realize kid not there and they need amber alert..

Now if u have to call school officer.. to confirm child gone... what the hell..

They must of thought bloody footprints were perps..?? Not jaymes..??

I have no idea ....3500 people... seems about 10 percent more than little off..

Why police refuse to say where Denise found confusing af

 

[Wrenny]

Even though they are married, it is two people and it would be the Estate of Jim and the Estate of Denise for probate and one family member in each respective family filed the case or more likely it was agreed by each family who should be the one to file it.

If either of them has an inheritance, those are not marital property unless they have been used as such.

 

[bizzle2]

I was questioning this earlier as well. Maybe they took her in the 1/2 hour time between gunshots and 911 call?? There was a lot of noise in the background but what if it was Denise yelling to james (somewhere in an earlier thread there was a quote that he was still alive when the police arrived). Or the dog barking. It might not have been the intruders that they heard. Maybe Denise was yellingnfor Jayme (but she was not there) This seems to fit with the “suicide” theory because if the intruders were yelling it might have been classified as a home invasion not suicide by the 911 operator . Plus-LE didn’t notice the door had been kicked in right away and they didn’t declare Jayme missing right away. I think they took her and left when the neighbors heard the shots.

1. The 1/2 hour time gap likely doesn't exist. LE has said the shots heard by the neighbors are unsubstantiated.

2. James was dead near the front door when police arrived at the house.

3. It was the not the 911 operator who first said suicide. It was the first officer on the scene who said that. The operator simply classified it as a "911 Hang Up"

4. LE has said James and Denise died instantly of their wounds. So, if the perps left when the neighbors said they heard shots (which, again, is totally unsubstantiated according to LE) then there would be no one to call 911 at 12:53am. Jayme and the perps would be gone, and the parents would be dead.

 

[Andreee]

With the above in mind, I will mention that in my opinion, when this case first broke and the only photo of Jayme we saw was the widely circulated Amber Alert photo where she looked very young and childish, I thought there was no way that she could be involved in her own disappearance.

But since many other photos of Jayme have been posted, which show her looking like a typical teenager rather than a child, I would now say “maybe” she was involved in her own disappearance. IMO.

If she was involved in her own disappearance I doubt if she knew her parents were going to be harmed. Again, just my opinion.

I still think it is more likely that she was not involved in her disappearance. But after seeing more recent photos of Jayme I would say it could be possible, even if the possibility is slight.

Just because Jayme looks more 'grown up' in some photos, does not mean she is 'involved' in her own disappearance. From everything we have heard about her, read about her and observed, I don't believe for one second she was innocently involved in her disappearance just because she wears a bit of makeup at times and tries out more modern apparel. She had JUST TURNED age 13! She was exactly how relatives, etc. said she was IMO!

 

[bizzle2]

No shots... just yelling...

But dispatcher didn’t say kid yelling..???

And took an hour to realize kid not there and they need amber alert..

Now if u have to call school officer.. to confirm child gone... what the hell..

They must of thought bloody footprints were perps..?? Not jaymes..??

I have no idea ....3500 people... seems about 10 percent more than little off..

Why police refuse to say where Denise found confusing af

Couple things:

1. They've never really said what exactly was heard on the 911 call. The way the sheriff talks about the 911 call it kind of sounds to me like it's possible that they couldn't make out exactly what the sounds were until they cleaned up the audio from the call. The 911 operator may not have been able to hear it.

2. The sheriff talked about calling the school resource officer and how they went about determining that she was missing in an interview. (I think it was the DrydenWire one.) They had to make sure she was actually missing before they officially declared her missing. Resource officer had to verify that she did in fact live there, and then they had to check with family members to make sure she wasn't staying somewhere else for the night. Doing all of that while also investigating the two dead bodies they had just found at the house surely took some time. It was a little more than 4 hours after they arrived at the house that she was declared missing and endangered.

I think a lot of this stuff, especially the call log, is sort of a "hindsight is 20/20" situation. It may seem kind of slow to develop, but you have to consider all the factors LE was dealing with that night. It made sense to me, but that's just my opinion on things.