AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #31

[Moonsie]

I don’t care whether it is an angry spouse, a watchful parent or the FBI.

If someone wants information off of a device - basic or not - they will find a way to get it.

I’m not buying any of the ‘mystery’ around devices. It’s there. You just need to know where to look and how to get.

Sources: moo, and as the mother of four daughters and an ex wife.

 

[Rubiconbob]

The Closs telephone landline was not cut. There is one location where this would be done - on the house near the NID next to the patio doors. In the photos of the home after the event, the twisted pair copper phone lines are completely intact.

Only people in town with landlines are Likely business and Smrekars ... which might explain disconnection..

Most people have bailed on landlines unless it’s free with cable ...I think most teens if they walked past old house phone they wouldn’t see it ... airports have charging banks now ... landline to me is the same as cancelled newspaper subscription.. not a link ..

 

[The Dude]

I don’t care whether it is an angry spouse, a watchful parent or the FBI.

If someone wants information off of a device - basic or not - they will find a way to get it.

I’m not buying any of the ‘mystery’ around devices. It’s there. You just need to know where to look and how to get.

Sources: moo, and as the mother of four daughters and an ex wife.

Take, for example, a pay-as-you-go, or "burner" phone. The companies that produce these phones don't share their API's with forensic software companies. If you're aware of how to get around that roadblock, I'm sure there's a lot of LE that would love to hear from you!

 

[1987]

we don't know if LE has all devices. how would anyone know if she had a device that was taken with her if she had kept it secret that she had ever had it? it does happen that kids have devices that parents do not know about. I grounded a kid and within the week they had another phone, as fast as I could smash them another appeared. came in the mail, was left in the BBQ grill, was handed to at school. kids can get devices. I don't think they keep old ones incase they break their current one I think they keep them to hand out. even without service a lot can just use internet and function up to a point.

 

[Rubiconbob]

we don't know if LE has all devices. how would anyone know if she had a device that was taken with her if she had kept it secret that she had ever had it? it does happen that kids have devices that parents do not know about. I grounded a kid and within the week they had another phone, as fast as I could smash them another appeared. came in the mail, was left in the BBQ grill, was handed to at school. kids can get devices. I don't think they keep old ones incase they break their current one I think they keep them to hand out. even without service a lot can just use internet and function up to a point.

Great point. And if u use text primarily WiFi most do ... you’d never need cell line.
My nephew will break phone and use back up for text for 3 days and not miss beat... dunno .. she could have 2 old phones but u would think the emei or cell info / even with new sd card would still be traceable ??

 

[Moonsie]

Ok, so Jayme was running around town now with a pay as you go, burner phone? What’s the source for that?

They recovered her cellphone. It was charging in the kitchen. Doubt she would be charging a burner phone in plain view of her parents.

But sure, I guess anything is possible at this point.

moo.

 

[girlhasnoname]

I can't believe we're still in the same place with nothing.....

LE has to know much more than they've let on IMO. I'm sure all of the forensic testing has been done by now. I'm pretty sure they've searched the electronic footprints of all of the family members and gotten back any data they might have had to subpoena.

IMO - it can only be 2 scenarios:

1) They know who the perp(s) is, but cannot locate them and are afraid to name them publicly for Jayme's safety. I don't believe Jayme had ANY intent in her parents death, but could have had a secret relationship against their wishes.

I didn't even consider this a possibility at first, she seemed so 'little', but after seeing more recent pictures and talking with my next door neighbors daughters 11 & 13, whew lets just say the proverbial blinders were ripped off. These girls are a lot like Jayme....pretty, popular, athletic, come from a great home and are even overly protected, but the stories they told. Wow, kids are so more advanced these days.

OR

2) It was a completely random act, not targeted - I have a hard time with this one really as this attack seems very angry and done with a specific purpose.

All JMO I hope Jayme can be found and reunited with her family soon!

 

[The Dude]

Ok, so Jayme was running around town now with a pay as you go, burner phone? What’s the source for that?

They recovered her cellphone. It was charging in the kitchen. Doubt she would be charging a burner phone in plain view of her parents.

But sure, I guess anything is possible at this point.

moo.

<modsnip - personalizing>Nobody mentioned Jayme's name. The point I raised was that electronics forensics isn't a perfect science. Pay-go phones are an example of that. *shrug*

 

[Ms Buffyton]

Agree, it's been over two months and we are in the same place. I believe LE has information not released to the public. Last night I was thinking of the case of little Kyron Horman who has been missing for over eight years now. That was a very high profile case with bizarre twists and turns. I made my mind up a long time ago on who was involved in his disappearance. I remember when Dr. Phil had the family members of Kyron on his show on different occasions. The interviews were very insightful. Maybe members of the Closs family should reach out to Dr. Phil to get the word out nationwide about missing Jayme. I don't know. Just a thought. It would provide more coverage.

 

[Deerrun]

specifically a father and son isn't something i necessarily thought of, but i've seen discussions...aka rumors, which is a big no-no here. so definitely tread carefully even when you're talking about addresses and where people live, IMO. not a mod but i don't think you broke a rule since you didn't name names or mention specifics. but since so little is known and since there aren't even any public POIs, best to keep it as general and hypothetical as possible

Thanks

 

[ilovechili]

I read the burner phone comment as a general comment to inform people that they are forensically different, if one even knows someone has one. I would add a KNOWN fact is that electronic sniffing dogs were brought in for some reason so it seems to relate to me. jmo.

There are no facts. Basically none that we know for a fact have anything to do with any particular theory. Therefore nothing commented is anything but speculation or theory.

As a bit of change in subject, any ideas what the call log entry at 1:00:43 means with "Person Removed: VERIZON, WIRELESS"

 

[CarGoVroomVroom]

I do not have a snapchat account, but is the location sharing "snap map" defaulted to "on for friends"? or visible to nearby snappers if snap was tagged?

Assumption, Snap was done at party and / or at home, said suspect stalked earlier party and followed home? Returning in evening or planned abduction?

Curious how far back video surveillance was done in day, possible car following DC and JC vehicle home?

I spin tons of ideas around in my head and thus today's idea

 

[CarGoVroomVroom]

I know the FBI reads these posts, so maybe this will help or they shrugged it off as already checked this out and good thinking CarGoVroomVroom

 

[Nerissa]

I think it's a legitimate point that IF Jayme was in contact/relationship what have you with the perp then said perp could have given her a 'burner' phone to use...

in other similar cases that is what the perp has done: given burner phones to their victims, or mailed them new ones they've activated/paid for etc

It is possible that she had that in the bedroom with her that night, that it was in her hand/on her person when she was removed....

Anyway: I think it's a legitimate point & not off topic MOO

Of course: I'm fixated on the Short family case as being connected to this......which doesn't necessarily exclude a 'boyfriend' - but it would be that said perp, when planning what to do about the situation read about the Short case & decided to copy cat (not my favorite theory...possible though....)

 

[girlhasnoname]

I do not have a snapchat account, but is the location sharing "snap map" defaulted to "on for friends"? or visible to nearby snappers if snap was tagged?

Assumption, Snap was done at party and / or at home, said suspect stalked earlier party and followed home? Returning in evening or planned abduction?

Curious how far back video surveillance was done in day, possible car following DC and JC vehicle home?

I spin tons of ideas around in my head and thus today's idea

Very good ideas IMO. I'm not a Snapper LOL, have no clue about how it works. Instagram I know a little, but the neighbor girls mentioned Kix (?) and so many other apps I'd never heard of. Yes, I do feel old now and I'm not

ETA: Another one they mentioned was Marco Polo?

 

[girlhasnoname]

I have to believe there would be ways for anyone to stay in contact with someone secretly, what in the world did any of us do before cell phones and social media?

1) They could call a friend who could then call the person on 3 way call
2) They could establish a certain time/location to meet when if they had a routine
3) They could use that spoof number thing that looks like it is another number but IDK how that works on phone logs??
4) Call a mutual friend to arrange a meet up

I think it would be foolish to not consider all possibilities. We just don't know. JMO

 

[ilovechili]

Very good ideas IMO. I'm not a Snapper LOL, have no clue about how it works. Instagram I know a little, but the neighbor girls mentioned Kix (?) and so many other apps I'd never heard of. Yes, I do feel old now and I'm not

ETA: Another one they mentioned was Marco Polo?

The apps are always way ahead of the parents as are the children, I do not doubt they could be ahead of LE in some cases, it changes so fast. Many parents find that out the hard way and sometimes only in hindsight. Go all the way back to the first Kindles. I remember a parent who stopped her child from being on the internet and banned her from the computer, but she let her have her "Nook" is that what it was called? It was on TV many years ago, Dr. Phil maybe? To read nothing but books, no interaction, an appropriate punishment, never realizing what they could do with it in their room. It was the way they were marketed and all most parents thought they could do. I hope it is not off subject but I feel the possibility is nothing to ignore, there is a girl missing.

 

[Hatfield]

I read the burner phone comment as a general comment to inform people that they are forensically different, if one even knows someone has one. I would add a KNOWN fact is that electronic sniffing dogs were brought in for some reason so it seems to relate to me. jmo.

....snipped rest to focus on above....

JMO
I agree and I forgot all about LE bringing in some type of special search dogs for electronic devices. That is an interesting tidbit that I have never seen in any other case.

I do think its possible that she may have had another pay-as-you go phone. They really are popular now and when I first learned about so called "burner phones" I was under the false impression that it took some special knowledge or skillset to get one and mainly drug dealers or cartel people would get them. When I ended up getting one myself I realized they are simply either a prepaid or a pay-as-you-go phone that you can easily purchase at the local Walmart. I got mine because of the low cost of it and since I dont use a smart phone very much. I was amazed at all the smart phone features pre installed on the thing. On mine I chose to put in some real registering information because I intend to add airtime to it when it runs out but I realized i could have used fake information during the setup to get it to work. I assume some of the pre-paid phones may not even require any actual real information to end up using it.

 

[1987]

Great point. And if u use text primarily WiFi most do ... you’d never need cell line.
My nephew will break phone and use back up for text for 3 days and not miss beat... dunno .. she could have 2 old phones but u would think the emei or cell info / even with new sd card would still be traceable ??

I have a old one that I use with a drone and the mac address is all that I know can be seen on the wifi. I took the sims card out. so I don't know how much could be known if she did have a old phone for wifi use, or even someone elses old phone for wifi use.

 

[ilovechili]

JMO
I agree and I forgot all about LE bringing in some type of special search dogs for electronic devices. That is an interesting tidbit that I have never seen in any other case.

I do think its possible that she may have had another pay-as-you go phone. They really are popular now and when I first learned about so called "burner phones" I was under the false impression that it took some special knowledge or skillset to get one and mainly drug dealers or cartel people would get them. When I ended up getting one myself I realized they are simply either a prepaid or a pay-as-you-go phone that you can easily purchase at the local Walmart. I got mine because of the low cost of it and since I dont use a smart phone very much. I was amazed at all the smart phone features pre installed on the thing. On mine I chose to put in some real registering information because I intend to add airtime to it when it runs out but I realized i could have used fake information during the setup to get it to work. I assume some of the pre-paid phones may not even require any actual real information to end up using it.

I have never had what they call a track phone but I have straight talk, before that I was always under a contract with a provider. Like you probably I chose to register mine and take a monthly plan online so I am sure if anyone needs to find out whose number mine is Straight Talk can provide it. Yet a person can just buy a phone card is that correct? And never register it or put in any name. Or buy one for another. I also used to think it was for like drug dealers or criminals or someone maybe having an affair that would use or want one, and that burner phones were different, buy a one time use phone and then toss it. Or keep it and keep it hidden. Am I wrong or is it basically the same thing? Like I tossed out there in another post, parents are often well behind children in these things.

ETA: Relates to the fact electronic sniffing dogs were used in the case.