AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #31

[ilovechili]

I live in VA and heard about the Smart Family Murders in Bassett VA, but I had not done any research on the case in years. After others on here brought it up, I saw a lot of similarities. I listened to a podcast on the case and the hosts had many of the same questions about the motives that we have thought about on Jayme's case. I just hope the end result is not the same.

I knew nothing much about the Short case until a few months ago. I looked it up after someone mentioned it and the similarities were so striking and there were so many, at least in the article I read. It has also been mentioned that I think in early October, they put the case in the news again hoping for some break or new leads. It could have triggered a copycat or even not so far fetched (anymore than any other wild theory in this case), the same perp who remains at large. I forget the year but say the perp was 25 or 29 then I think it would put him near 40 or so now, etc. Some of the similarities to the Closs case, older parents, only child; on a highway; killed parents, took child (later sadly also found dead not all that far away), and many more. Unfortunately, however, they do not know who that killer was either, whether stranger or someone was targeted. In that case, they sure did not take the child to keep her and apparently the child was not involved as it was some years ago, I doubt the internet played a part--the child was also a bit younger than Jayme.

 

[CuriousMaine]

Reference the questions why LE does not release information about what LE knows of James movements. I don't put much into it either way.

LE has released across the board very little information pertaining to the crimes. I don't foresee LE releasing information going forward unless they believe it helps solving the crimes, or until they have perp(s) in custody during disclosure.

Frustrating for sure.

yup. Frustrating indeed, yet crucial to the investigation. Best/only way to discern whether a subject has knowledge of the scene or just talking to hear themselves talk.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Yes, sorry for the typo.

If short family murders were recent you’d think the same person...

To me biggest similarity is the worst house possible ... last home out of town .... 20 ft from road... both are brutal and sad... I think jayme could be found 5 mile radius dead from same gun ...

She could also be found 5 towns over living in finished attic covering up Hatfield / McCoy item nobody knew about outside baron ....

 

[JnRyan]

Speaking of the Short murders it looks as if LE in Barron had already looked at it.
Dark connections: Chilling cases outside Wisconsin resemble disappearance of Jayme Closs

 

[desertstorm]

Since Barron WI is a small town I wonder if middle school kids ride the same bus as high school kids. If so maybe some kid became obsessed with Jayme. He would see the house everyday, know the cars, maybe even get a feel for the families schedule. Possible went into house by garage if unlocked to check house when they were not home. Maybe went to house when Jayme was sick and was told he is too old for Jayme. Could have set him off. Might seem far fetched, but back in the 70's I went to school with a kid who 3 years after graduation killed the family of 2 brothers who bullied this kid everyday for years. He broke into house and shot two elementary kids, high school daughter and boyfriend along with mother and father as they returned home from school and work. He bought a gun the previous July and then reported the gun stolen. Same caliber used to kill family, .22 Magnum. He waited until a cold rainy Friday to do this. He didn't kill the two brothers who bullied him because they did not come home until much later. This guy was questioned many times and nothing, He was caught when kids playing down by the creek found the gun after the creek water receded in the August hot weather. He never showed any violence in school was quiet, but had friends. So you never know what goes through someone's mind and what they are capable of doing. Just my thoughts

 

[CuriousMaine]

Did I miss something? Is there a reason people are surmising that James might have been at a bar earlier in the day? A cribbage tournament or darts, something he was known to participate in at a bar(s)?

I've not seen anyone suggest he might be at a bowling alley, orphanage, grocery store, car dealership, restaurant, checking on a hunting cabin, raking the lawn, etc., although based on what I've read about him, it all seems as likely or unlikely to me.

I'm going on the assumption/pure speculation that James and Denise were going to work for 7am the following morning - just based on their ages, length of time (seniority) at Jennie-O, and other indicators.

James was known to be a Packer's fan and probably enjoyed watching other football games as well. The games were over around 10:30 (his time). My husband is about the same age with similar work schedule. If his team is playing late, he might take a pre-planned vacation day the following day, but he wouldn't stay up until 10:30 (11:30 our time) for other games and he has no interest in watching games in bars with all the noise and interruptions, etc. I don't know a mature family man & football fan who does.

...but maybe I missed something?

 

[kay74]

I have seen this on other cases yet when I mentioned it here, my post was deleted. I wish they would ask Tim Miller in Texas to help them!

 

[Deerrun]

Good point, I certainly think it is possible and worth building a theory around. And you're not alone in your thinking of this, which is all I'm going to say so I can stay on the good side of the TOS.

Why did you ask that, father and son? I thought about that too because there is a father and son SO's that live close to Closs home. Son is registered to the Barron address but actually lives in in a nearby town according to another website. Hopefully I didn't break any rules writing this please delete if so.

 

[MesquiteO21]

For my first WS post ever.... joined and have been following this case since the beginning.
In Wisconsin bar activities consume a lot of adult time especially in northern Wisconsin as there isn't really much to do but, pass the time tossin the beers back.

I agree with this idea as James may of just been at the bar all day or at night on Sunday - not uncommon for someone from WI to sit in a bar for 8-10 hours (seriously). He could have had an altercation (large or small and unnoticed by other patrons) with someone from the bar in (I see it all the time around here) Okauchee. Drunks or just people who don't like you will start something over nothing after a couple drinks. Math continues from there as perp knows where he lives or follows him home.

But then I toss this idea OUT as a drunk person(s) may not have the ability to leave no trace while under the influence but perhaps an altercation was another day and was planned out and then re-ignited when James was seen at the bar again and perp wasn't fully intoxicated.

The question remains is WHY do we not know what James was doing earlier in that day? Do they not want to include a business that may know info for fear of negative effect on that said business/bar in this remote area?
WAS he at a friends house and they don't want to call out said friend out just yet as they cannot connect all the dots to charge without reasonable doubt?

I think if we knew what James was doing that day would shed some light - they are just waiting for someone to come forward with "oh I've seen James at xxxxxxxx"
There are 5 bars within 3 miles of the house.

And the case continues - -

I do agree that a drunk person probably wouldn't have the wherewithal to carry out this crime. But to play around with some ideas- maybe this person wasn't as drunk as they appeared?

That's the frustrating thing about this case...we know so little that there really are endless scenarios that we can't rule out.

And welcome to websleuths!

 

[katydid23]

I suppose it could have happened that way, but I still can not see my daughter coming into a room with an argument like that going on. She would hear me telling him to put the gun away, and let’s talk this out... I believe she would stay in her room, hide and call 911. I’ve said it before, she would give me up for lost if there was a spider in the same room as me. I think however it went down, all three of them had to already be in the living/front room for the time line to fit. Something else that doesn’t fit: why did they find Jayme’s phone charging on the kitchen counter? That NEVER happens with my teen aged daughter if she’s in her room...

Edit: Now that I think about it, this makes me think that nearly every theory I’ve read starts with her in her room. This makes me sure that she was not in her room asleep when it went down. For whatever reason. She doesn’t go to bed and leave her phone to charge in the kitchen, there’s outlets in her room. This also makes me firmly believe she is not involved in the plot. If you know you’re leaving and not taking your phone, why charge it?

When my daughter was 13, I'd take her phone away from her when she went to bed, or she'd stay up all night texting. She had to plug it into the charger, in the kitchen before she went to bed.

 

[katydid23]

Im sure this has already been discussed but I still find it strange that at the beginning when Jayme was first missing
emotional pleas by Jaymes relatives for her safe return both sound they think that Jayme has the power to return on her own?

Maybe the wording in the Families pleas has changed now but at the beginning it sounds as though the relatives are asking her to come home instead of asking someone to bring her back home.

Speaking out for the first time from the Barron County sheriff’s podium, two of Jayme’s aunts called out directly to the missing teen.

“To whoever may know where Jayme is, please contact the Barron County Sheriff’s Department,” said aunt Jennifer Smith. “Jayme, we need you here to fill that hole we have in our hearts.”

The girl’s beloved pet joined them.


(credit: CBS)

“Your dog, Molly, is waiting for you. She’s sleeping in one of your sweatshirts,” Smith said

Jayme's aunt, Jennifer Smith, used the news conference to speak directly to Jayme. She said the family misses her giggles, her grandpa needs her to draw fresh artwork to hang on his refrigerator and she still wants to take Jayme on a shopping date the two of them had planned. She even held up a bottle of Jayme's favorite iced coffee for the


Missing Wisconsin teen's family in emotional plea for her safe return


Relatives Plead for Vigilance as They Share Profound Loss of Closs Family | KSTP.com - KSTP TVKSTP.com › news › relatives-plead-for-v...

I think that was a strategy, to ask her to return home, JUST IN CASE she was able to. I don't think it proves anything, other than they wanted to cover their bases.

Asking the perp to bring her home was going to fall on deaf ears, so why bother. But there was a slim chance that she has the ability to return, so they tried their best to convince her to do so.

I'd hate to see that used against Jayme, as if it means her family thinks she is guilty of something. JMO

 

[*Removed_for_profanity*]

When my daughter was 13, I'd take her phone away from her when she went to bed, or she'd stay up all night texting. She had to plug it into the charger, in the kitchen before she went to bed.

Yeah, thought about that, could have been a house rule. Just trying to think of the average teen. Not knowing this particular one. I don’t think mine had a phone yet at 13, but I know she had an iPod at least she could message with. It was never a problem with her, so she never left it out like that.

 

[MesquiteO21]

Why did you ask that, father and son? I thought about that too because there is a father and son SO's that live close to Closs home. Son is registered to the Barron address but actually lives in in a nearby town according to another website. Hopefully I didn't break any rules writing this please delete if so.

specifically a father and son isn't something i necessarily thought of, but i've seen discussions...aka rumors, which is a big no-no here. so definitely tread carefully even when you're talking about addresses and where people live, IMO. not a mod but i don't think you broke a rule since you didn't name names or mention specifics. but since so little is known and since there aren't even any public POIs, best to keep it as general and hypothetical as possible

 

[The Dude]

Thanks to those who shared the teen insights. I find that to be very helpful.

I wanted to touch on something I don't think is always that well understood. Electronics forensics. First, don't think that there's some geeky agents scrolling through phones looking for messages. On the other hand, there also isn't some magic FBI software that they plug into and have every shred of data ever passing through a device. There are endless variables involved, and it's a less than perfect science. Are the devices IOS? Android? Blackberry? Windows? Chrome? Is it a simple or complex password? Encryption? Old flip phone? Burner phone? We don't know any of this. To understand more, Google "smartphone forensics".

I guess my point is, just because they have the devices, it doesn't mean they can extract whatever they want. It's possible they can't get anything. Also, just because we've been told there's nothing there, doesn't necessarily mean there's nothing there. We don't know.

 

[Celt1997]

I seem to recall that the 911 dispatcher could not reach the Closs residence via the landline. I wonder if it was cut also?

A "cut" phone line would ring and ring and ring. LE has said the phone line was "disconnected." I believe they knew this because instead of a continuous ring, they received the phone company's recorded message of the number being disconnected.

 

[MesquiteO21]

A "cut" phone line would ring and ring and ring. LE has said the phone line was "disconnected." I believe they knew this because instead of a continuous ring, they received the phone company's recorded message of the number being disconnected.

forgive my ignorance but just want to clarify...so you're saying landline was disconnected in the sense of not being active and currently in use, versus phone line being physically cut/damaged? if you cut the phone line on a landline that is currently in use does it still ring? i always thought you'd get like a busy signal or something but to be honest i have no idea where I got that from so it could be totally untrue.

 

[Rubiconbob]

Thanks to those who shared the teen insights. I find that to be very helpful.

I wanted to touch on something I don't think is always that well understood. Electronics forensics. First, don't think that there's some geeky agents scrolling through phones looking for messages. On the other hand, there also isn't some magic FBI software that they plug into and have every shred of data ever passing through a device. There are endless variables involved, and it's a less than perfect science. Are the devices IOS? Android? Blackberry? Windows? Chrome? Is it a simple or complex password? Encryption? Old flip phone? Burner phone? We don't know any of this. To understand more, Google "smartphone forensics".

I guess my point is, just because they have the devices, it doesn't mean they can extract whatever they want. It's possible they can't get anything. Also, just because we've been told there's nothing there, doesn't necessarily mean there's nothing there. We don't know.

Agree to a certain extent ..., we don’t know but it’s not impossible to figure these things out without passwords ... take jaymes 4 close friends...relatives... take Denise close friends relatives... they will likely use whatever apps there circle of friends is using..and have their info/name...

You can get information a lot of times quicker from snap / Fitbit / etc. than phone cos...or apple..3rd party apps data mine and track just like everyone...

U can build from any app they have on device .., location activity...

If she had boyfriend take to Dairy Queen we didn’t know about. Could be tracked by 8 apps..... same for POI...

I think if it’s someone they know.. digital trail will be helpful.. and eventual the perp would slip up... unaware the Taco Bell app or Walgreens app was tracking him... crime foiled by Crunchwrap.... or whatever..

 

[The Dude]

A "cut" phone line would ring and ring and ring. LE has said the phone line was "disconnected." I believe they knew this because instead of a continuous ring, they received the phone company's recorded message of the number being disconnected.

I posted this a while back -

Hey ‘87. I’m a Telecom Engineer. The 911 dispatcher likely pulled up that address’ last known land line number. Odds are, the Closs’ gave up the land line years ago (as many have done since mobile phones became the norm).

As for line cut - by itself, a cut phone line doesn’t call or do anything. It’s like cutting the cord to your lamp. There used to be an option on older monitored alarm systems that would trip the local alarm if the phone line was cut, but it would only call out if there was a cellular backup installed (expensive).

 

[The Dude]

The Closs telephone landline was not cut. There is one location where this would be done - on the house near the NID next to the patio doors. In the photos of the home after the event, the twisted pair copper phone lines are completely intact.

 

[photographer4]

All that is great information to know photographer, thank you. I’m going to have to ask my daughter if the average teen knows all that now...

The average 14-15yr old probably knows about Kik and the apps to hide apps your parents wouldn’t approve of. Parents need to open apps. Look around. Read about them. Use them to understand them. Sadly some don’t think to or think it’s necessary bc their kid(s) are angels.