AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #31

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rosesfromangels said:
Another excellent article about the psychological profile of a kidnapper. This one with Brad Garrett, who served as then principle FBI behavioral profiler:

..."They tend to be white males, they tend to be a little older, in the 30-40 year age range, they tend to have a history of problems in relationships in general but in particular with women, they may or may not have a criminal history....
They tend to be somewhat — but not all of the time — socially isolated...
In general, they feel inadequate and one of the things in abducting, controlling and sexual assaulting is: it's about power. They are in charge, they are doing what they want to do, not what someone else wants them to do. They get what they want..."

Profiling abductors: Q&A with Brad Garrett | CBC News
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Interesting, thanks for this! And it sounds about right in many of these types of cases, statistically and historically speaking.
 
Something I read on my neighborhood Next Door made me think of this case. (If you aren't familiar with Next Door, it's kind of like a social media website/app for people who live in the same or nearby neighborhoods). Two separate people in the same subdivision posted that they had door bell ringing and/or window knocking in the wee hours this morning. One woman said someone rang her doorbell around 445 AM and another said she was in the bathroom around 4 AM and someone knocked loudly on the window. While the first woman did not answer the door immediately, both did state they went outside after hearing the noises to check things out.

I am just thinking that, while none of us know how we'd react if a knock or ring came at our door past midnight (or any sort of loud noise), we have debated what initially happened. Did someone just try and bust down the door or was James drawn to the door? IMO I think the latter happened, and this shows that there are people out there (perhaps many) who, upon hearing a door knock at an odd hour, maybe a bit on alert but still feel secure enough to actually go out of their house to check it out. We have no way of knowing, but my personal theory is that this started with some sort of noise drawing him to at least that area of the home, if not completely outside. Maybe it was a door knock or maybe a loud noise (a shot?) coming from the yard nearby. Most of us, hearing a noise, wouldn't immediately assume we will be murdered in a matter of seconds.
 
MntnHiker said:
Something I read on my neighborhood Next Door made me think of this case. (If you aren't familiar with Next Door, it's kind of like a social media website/app for people who live in the same or nearby neighborhoods). Two separate people in the same subdivision posted that they had door bell ringing and/or window knocking in the wee hours this morning. One woman said someone rang her doorbell around 445 AM and another said she was in the bathroom around 4 AM and someone knocked loudly on the window. While the first woman did not answer the door immediately, both did state they went outside after hearing the noises to check things out.

I am just thinking that, while none of us know how we'd react if a knock or ring came at our door past midnight (or any sort of loud noise), we have debated what initially happened. Did someone just try and bust down the door or was James drawn to the door? IMO I think the latter happened, and this shows that there are people out there (perhaps many) who, upon hearing a door knock at an odd hour, maybe a bit on alert but still feel secure enough to actually go out of their house to check it out. We have no way of knowing, but my personal theory is that this started with some sort of noise drawing him to at least that area of the home, if not completely outside. Maybe it was a door knock or maybe a loud noise (a shot?) coming from the yard nearby. Most of us, hearing a noise, wouldn't immediately assume we will be murdered in a matter of seconds.
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Interesting! Did you mean that this happened about the same time the Closs murders occurred or in the same region? Either way, I really don't think those two women you mentioned should have opened their front doors or gone outside to look! I would never even go near the front door if that happened to me, and I would even think about calling the police to come and have a look around outside.
 
This is going nowhere. I lost faith. They need fresh blood there to really dig in, get down to business and find this girl.
 
Nerissa said:
So.......

Where is everybody at with theories here, folks?

I have my pet Short family copy cat if not outright same perp theory

Why? Because given what we know I cannot come up with anything else that makes sense

LE says, well this & that: whatever they say may or may not be the truth: what they say is said to maximize capturing the perp - fine by me.....but, I cannot take what they share as 'fact' frankly

Now: I do know the bare bones: and both cases are remarkably similar.....

So: for me: this is the least frustrating theory!

Just wondering: speculation is rampant: but where are the comprehensive theories??

JMO
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The timeline at the start of each thread by whiskers really helps. The crime itself went down very fast. The 911 call interfered, and was an interruption. Jayme was gone, but her dog was found (dog not a target, or judged not a threat, or even seen). The sheriff believes Jayme was in the home at the time of the crime, and sees no reason she is a suspect. The family denies she had a boyfriend, steadfastly. There are no reports that anyone had a grievance against any of the family members. James and Denise were longtime workers at the same job, so probably reliable. Jayme attended extracurricular activities. The family stayed to themselves, according to neighbors, but had an active family social life. Denise was involved with her church. The house is alongside a very busy road.

It truly is looking like a stranger abduction and a targeted hit to get Jayme. IMO, for the moment.

I go back to those who wonder about cars and trucks that go by there every day, and the bus stop. It has never been satisfactorily explained to me if she rode the bus at her new school, or did at her old one. Can anyone help?
 
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Jabarn said:
The timeline at the start of each thread by whiskers really helps. The crime itself went down very fast. The 911 call interfered, and was an interruption. Jayme was gone, but her dog was found (dog not a target, or judged not a threat, or even seen). The sheriff believes Jayme was in the home at the time of the crime, and sees no reason she is a suspect. The family denies she had a boyfriend, steadfastly. There are no reports that anyone had a grievance against any of the family members. James and Denise were longtime workers at the same job, so probably reliable. Jayme attended extracurricular activities. The family stayed to themselves, according to neighbors, but had an active family social life. Denise was involved with her church. The house is alongside a very busy road.

It truly is looking like a stranger abduction and a targeted hit to get Jayme. IMO, for the moment.

I go back to those who wonder about cars and trucks that go by there every day, and the bus stop. It has never been satisfactorily explained to me if she road the bus at her new school, or did at her old one. Can anyone help?
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It could have boiled down to someone being late to work because he had to stop when the bus stopped to pick up Jayme. He gets fired that day, blames her and decides to go back and get revenge.
But to kind of answer the question the Smrekars said they saw Jayme getting off the bus and it was stated that Jayme waited for the bus in the mornings after her parents went to work.
 
I’ve followed this case from the beginning. I think about it often, trying to come up with a valid reason it went down like it did. Growing up in the country, my Dad would have definitely went to the door that late at night. He’d have taken his shotgun and listened at the door first, as well as peeping out the window beside it. Perhaps that was what James did, minus the gun. My Mom would have been alert standing in the hallway to see if it was ok. I was hiding under the covers. (I know, very effective!) It makes sense that Denise would be up within the house, listening. I think Jayme would have been so stunned, she’d be very vulnerable. That doesn’t answer why she would be up front (the only 5 feet statement from LE). I’ve always leaned stranger, but I can’t settle on that. I pray that this case gets solved and Jayme is found, one way or another.
 
Jabarn said:
I go back to those who wonder about cars and trucks that go by there every day, and the bus stop. It has never been satisfactorily explained to me if she road the bus at her new school, or did at her old one. Can anyone help?
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She could not have ridden the bus from her home to the old school in Cameron as it wasn't in her district. WI allows open enrollment to other districts, but it does not provide transportation if you choose to do this.
 
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Nerissa said:
So.......

Where is everybody at with theories here, folks?

I have my pet Short family copy cat if not outright same perp theory

Why? Because given what we know I cannot come up with anything else that makes sense

LE says, well this & that: whatever they say may or may not be the truth: what they say is said to maximize capturing the perp - fine by me.....but, I cannot take what they share as 'fact' frankly

Now: I do know the bare bones: and both cases are remarkably similar.....

So: for me: this is the least frustrating theory!

Just wondering: speculation is rampant: but where are the comprehensive theories??

JMO
Click to expand...
Er... How can you have a comparative theory to something where nobody has any idea what happened?! And how would someone copycat that? o_O
 
jalbitz said:
Should could not have ridden the bus from her home to the old school in Cameron as it wasn't in her district. WI allows open enrollment to other districts, but it does not provide transportation if you choose to do this.
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Ok, get it, so she must have been a car rider to the school outside her home school district, and the aunt/care giver provided the transportation when needed. Am I missing anything?
 
TOS doesnt like talking @ other cases (re: Short cases similarities)....but everyone here can take both: copy cat, or same perp with regard Short case & follow it all to a logical end.....

I, too, can play the game @ what we think we 'know'....okie dokie

Denise is following James into the living room after hearing shouts, door being kicked in: she gives Jayme her phone (who has come out of her bedroom) either has already, or tells Jayme: dial 911, hide in the bathroom...

OK...

But, according to LE the perp(s) went, what? - 4-5 feet into the house (it IS a small house)

so....ok
...
the perp yells at Jayme to come out of the bathroom - and, as crazy as it sounds (not so crazy if she recognizes the voice) she does indeed come out: they shout out to her to drop the phone....

Point being: I cannot come up with anything that logically links LE statements & known bare facts to create a cohesive theory...

I can via the Short case

That's why I'd like to hear comprehensive theories that bring it all in...
 
The Dude said:
Er... How can you have a comparative theory to something where nobody has any idea what happened?! And how would someone copycat that? o_O
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I agree, a copy cat crime would be to have a solid one to base it on and some sort of mythos that appeals to the killer. There would be some element of understanding the motives of a previous killer a copycat would identify (thinking school shootings) and that doesn’t make sense here.
 
ilovechili said:
I meant if she was simply panicked and running for her life she may have exited the patio door and he caught her.

As for split level, I have a relative who has a home that would fit what this home looks like somewhat. When leaving the kitchen to the basement, one goes down just a few steps and there is a small landing/entry and an exterior door, or one can continue down a few more steps and one is in the garage. Just for part of the example of the interior. My relative's home is bigger and also has steps (not a full flight) up to the bedrooms. They have far more elevation than this house does so I am guessing the bedrooms probably are not that way and no steps up on the main level, but access to the basement probably is in the Closs home, something on that order.

imo.
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I agree with the basement. That is the way I have seen all houses. I used to go to a LOT of estate sales so I saw a lot of houses.

They have no second story so there are no steps leading up to a second story. Only the main floor and the basement
 
Does anyone have a link they could share to the family home photos please? I’m wondering if Molly was going potty when all this went down and whether they had a fenced back and/or side yard or maybe she alerted to the presence of someone outside. I’m not understanding the question regarding the leash being outside because I’ve never seen the photos. I have difficulty reconciling that James would go to, let alone open the door if he had firearms.

Call me reclusive too, but I will not go to the door if I’m not expecting someone even in broad daylight. My children were both taught never to go to the door or open it because the reality is that whether you live in a meth hell or not, it is no longer a safe world that we live in. After dark, even my husband would not go to the front door without firearm in hand. Although I am not a gun fan, I feel more secure knowing the husband and adult son would protect us if necessary. At 1am nothing good comes from someone knocking, ringing the bell or whatever! Scary times indeed!
 
Did the Closses in recent months have anyone living at their house - maybe not at time of murders but prior to that. If so their fingerprints, DNA etc would not be out of the ordinary? Just trying to make sense of this
 
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