AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #32

[daisy6441]

If they didn't know the Closs family at all then how did they know to go and tell the family member whos address is said to be in the log? The one who works for LE. Someone had to have known they were related to her. She is related on Denise's side so they don't have the same last name to give a hint.

 

[Ibiz]

Looks like were still at square one.

 

[Lillymac]

vi
My theory says it is possible that they ran to an ATV at the back edge of the property. They did not use the RR tracks. Google maps, satellite view, shows a wide mowed strip beside the RR tracks. It runs to the left all the way to a road then they could have turned north where some searches were conducted. The Google map page also shows vehicle tracks especially near the road end like it is used for off road vehicles. There appears to be enough room to leave a vehicle that a train would go by and never even know it was there.
Also we have no way of knowing if there was a path from the house to the back edge of their property, if so, they could have moved swiftly.

Rosie, several days back I Googled 'ATV' trails in Barron. There are quite a few and one is very accessible to the Closs property. This trail leads to an easy access road to exit roads out of the area. Holly Bobo, in Tennessee, wasn't she walked from her house to a four wheeler in the woods?
Another note ATV's can be really fancy. Enclosed with heaters, etc. And in rural areas nearly everyone has one. We have 3. Really a good thing to have if it's snowy or muddy after the snow melts.
And wasn't the area Behind the house where they had the 2000 person search?

 

[oceanblueeyes]

To put a bit of a different twist on this, they always do say they believe they are alive or have hope they do until they know otherwise, almost any LE in any case do this, as you say. Right?

It is the hope she is alive I believe that gives and maintains the most urgency with this for most people, she may still HAVE a chance. It is why we get frustrated as every day that passes matters, etc. While people would still care even if they knew she was not alive, and we know the parents were murdered, the same sense of urgency would possibly not exist. What I mean is one could still hope for justice and worry a murderer is on the loose, and would still keep it alive here on the internet and in the town, etc., but one would know there is no saving the victims except to find justice for them. It is the hope she can possibly still be saved that fuels much of it imo. And keeps it alive.

For that reason, I figure LE in most cases would never say otherwise and would not for many reasons unless they know otherwise. I had trouble wording it in the way I mean it, I hope that makes sense to all.

You stated it perfectly.

I agree totally. It all makes perfect sense. Thank you for replying.

Sadly I have watched many such cases on ID or on OWN and some of the missing victim cases the victims had been missing for years and some even for decades.

It was only when evidence finally came forth to LE proving they weren't just missing or endangered at all but had met with foul play shortly after they were presumed missing.

It was only then LE changed the status from a missing person or endangered etc. case for all of those years to finally a homicide investigation.

I have seen shows where family members speak out after it was ruled a homicide investigation. Most had long become very aggravated with LE and felt their loved one had met with foul play early on and couldn't understand why LE wouldn't change the status to a homicide investigation.

In fact many missing cases were finally solved because their families refused to give up all of those years and knew their love one wouldnt just willingly go missing and knew in their gut and hearts they had been murdered.

As you have said some of the good things about declaring Jayme is still alive is people will still call in tips and much needed attention will still continue.

Plus it does give the family members hope. Sadly that hope tends to diminish as more time passes.

But truthfully Fitzgerald has no evidence she is alive either. If that was truly the case they would have to know who abducted her and where she is. That would be the only way to have the necessary required proof of life and he knows that.

Imo its obvious Fitzgerald really has no idea who has taken Jayme.

He is just like we all are and he's hoping whoever it is he has not killed her too.

I am sure he wishes more than anything he did truly know she is still alive but to have the answer he first must know who took her in the first place after murdering both of her parents in cold blood.

Again thank for expressing your thoughts so well.

Jmo

 

[ilovechili]

Rosie, several days back I Googled 'ATV' trails in Barron. There are quite a few and one is very accessible to the Closs property. This trail leads to an easy access road to exit roads out of the area. Holly Bobo, in Tennessee, wasn't she walked from her house to a four wheeler in the woods?
Another note ATV's can be really fancy. Enclosed with heaters, etc. And in rural areas nearly everyone has one. We have 3. Really a good thing to have if it's snowy or muddy after the snow melts.
And wasn't the area Behind the house where they had the 2000 person search?

The 2000 person searched was actually staged miles away from the Closs house. It was staged on Highway 25 past (in the way opposite direction) both Jennie-O and the sheriff's department which are located on the very same road. It would also be going the wrong way and possibly be passing responding law enforcement. It is nowhere even close to the Closs residence.

Now that being said, maybe they sent people to different areas to search from this staging area and it was simply a place to park out of the way and out of town to coordinate a large effort, I have no idea because it has never been clarified but it would be worth clarifying it because a ton of people seem to feel that they were searching a road that the perps would have had to go right by LE to use and one that is in no way near the Closs home.

ETA: *search* not *searched* and adding imho

 

[mrstfs]

I haven’t read through all past threads so forgive me if someone already commented on this... I think it’s strange for a grown man to say “amazing pic of an amazing young lady” on a photo of a 13yo. Saw this on her FB from a year ago. I assume LE has covered everyone in contact with her in the past though. MOO

 

[ilovechili]

You stated it peefectly.

I agree totally. It all makes perfect sense. Thank you for replying.

Sadly I have watched many such cases on ID or on OWN and some of the missing victim cases the victims had been missing for years and some even for decades.

It was only when evidence finally came forth to LE proving they weren't just missing at all but had met with foul play shortly after they were presumed missing.

It was only then LE changed the status from a missing person case all of those years to finally a homicide investigation.

I have seen shows were family members speak out after it was ruled a homicide investigation. Most had long become very aggravated with LE and felt their loved one had met with foul play early on and couldn't understand why LE wouldn't change the status to a homicide investigation.

In fact many missing cases were finally solved because their families refused to give up all of those years and knew their love one wouldnt just willingly go missing and knew in their gut and hearts they had been murdered.

As you have said some of the good things about declaring Jayme is still alive is people will still call in tips and much needed attention will still continue.

Plus it does give the family members hope. Sadly that hope tends to diminish as more time passes.

But truthfully Fitzgerald has no evidence she is alive either. If that was truly the case they would have to know who abducted her and where she is. That would be the only way to have the necessary required proof of life and he knows that.

Imo its obvious Fitzgerald really has no idea who has taken Jayme.

He is just like we all are and he's hoping whoever it is he has not killed her too.

I am sure he wishes more than anything he did truly know she is still alive but to have the answer he first must know who took her in the first place after murdering both of her parents in cold blood.

Again thank for expressing your thoughts so well.

Jmo

I entirely agree and at a certain point it is certainly more likely someone is dead rather than alive and the families may reach that conclusion before, as you say, LE will ever say it. In this case there are already homicides whether they know whether Jayme is alive or not so we do have a homicide investigation as well as a missing persons investigation....

It is and should be a top priority case and hopefully all of the agencies have far more than the public does and know what likely happened but it certainly does not appear that way from the little to nothing the public is shown (understandably). No one has been arrested and no one has found her, that much is clear.

But one can hope.

 

[human]

I swear that I remember hearing something similar. That LE had to contact the school to determine if a child lived at the residence. I found this odd, since when the thief showed up at the house later, the arresting document states, "The defendant stated he walked in and immediately located a room off to the right that he believed belonged to Jayme Closs." Sounds like it was obvious that a child lived there.

So we have a thief in the night saying there were obvious signs of a room being a girl's room, but we have LE seemingly being unable to make that determination.

They would have no way of knowing if there was a divorce and Jayme only came on weekends.

 

[human]

In this article, it says they are putting up billboards on Highway 8 and others. I am so happy to hear this for the family's and Jayme's sake. I could not understand why they were not any. I don't know how it works and it is probably not LE's job nor should it be on the family, I just thought maybe some org or businesses could come together and help do this and I know people would donate as well. I love this news.

One would think Jennieo with its billions could afford a couple of billboards.

Two employees of 27 years. SMH.

When Jacob Wetterling was kidnapped so many businesses did what they could. A weekly shopper with a wide distribution in MN printed an entire page with information and a picture.

The billboard company put up free billboards.

The MN Vikings did things at their game. And on and on.

 

[human]

You stated it perfectly.

I agree totally. It all makes perfect sense. Thank you for replying.

Sadly I have watched many such cases on ID or on OWN and some of the missing victim cases the victims had been missing for years and some even for decades.

It was only when evidence finally came forth to LE proving they weren't just missing or endangered at all but had met with foul play shortly after they were presumed missing.

It was only then LE changed the status from a missing person or endangered etc. case for all of those years to finally a homicide investigation.

I have seen shows where family members speak out after it was ruled a homicide investigation. Most had long become very aggravated with LE and felt their loved one had met with foul play early on and couldn't understand why LE wouldn't change the status to a homicide investigation.

In fact many missing cases were finally solved because their families refused to give up all of those years and knew their love one wouldnt just willingly go missing and knew in their gut and hearts they had been murdered.

As you have said some of the good things about declaring Jayme is still alive is people will still call in tips and much needed attention will still continue.

Plus it does give the family members hope. Sadly that hope tends to diminish as more time passes.

But truthfully Fitzgerald has no evidence she is alive either. If that was truly the case they would have to know who abducted her and where she is. That would be the only way to have the necessary required proof of life and he knows that.

Imo its obvious Fitzgerald really has no idea who has taken Jayme.

He is just like we all are and he's hoping whoever it is he has not killed her too.

I am sure he wishes more than anything he did truly know she is still alive but to have the answer he first must know who took her in the first place after murdering both of her parents in cold blood.

Again thank for expressing your thoughts so well.

Jmo

LE says someone is alive to keep people engaged. If they say she is dead, interest is over.

 

[human]

I have said this from the beginning. Who really knows, but this scenario could answer a few questions. I still think this is a very good possibility!

Of what benefit is this when there are perfectly accessible roads that go everywhere and far away?

 

[ilovechili]

One would think Jennieo with its billions could afford a couple of billboards.

Two employees of 27 years. SMH.

When Jacob Wetterling was kidnapped so many businesses did what they could. A weekly shopper with a wide distribution in MN printed an entire page with information and a picture.

The billboard company put up free billboards.

The MN Vikings did things at their game. And on and on.

Agree. And I hope we keep seeing more of it, I found it hard to understand why such things had not happened--I have seen people offer to increase the reward, donate, etc. The semi truck was awesome to see and hopefully these billboards were businesses and people coming together to help Jayme and the family.

 

[human]

From what we know, or don’t know really, it appears there are few if any clues.

It bothers me each time the Sheriff speaks and is adamant that Jayme is still alive. After this length of time, the odds are against it unless he has inside knowledge. Which is doubtful. If he is so sure she is alive, he would have to have good leads on this case,, and I don’t think he does.

He is keeping the interest alive. People are not so interested in someone who is dead

 

[human]

To put a bit of a different twist on this, they always do say they believe they are alive or have hope they do until they know otherwise, almost any LE in any case do this, as you say. Right?

It is the hope she is alive I believe that gives and maintains the most urgency with this for most people, she may still HAVE a chance. It is why we get frustrated as every day that passes matters, etc. While people would still care even if they knew she was not alive, and we know the parents were murdered, the same sense of urgency would possibly not exist. What I mean is one could still hope for justice and worry a murderer is on the loose, and would still keep it alive here on the internet and in the town, etc., but one would know there is no saving the victims except to find justice for them. It is the hope she can possibly still be saved that fuels much of it imo. And keeps it alive.

For that reason, I figure LE in most cases would never say otherwise and would not for many reasons unless they know otherwise. I had trouble wording it in the way I mean it, I hope that makes sense to all.

Exactly!

 

[doublestop]

Yes, take any photo and run it through an EXIF app and it will show date and coordinates. Example, Mapillary crowdsourcing user base road travel pictures

Not necessarily. The camera has to have GPS capability for that to work. Additionally, it wouldn't work with photos found on Facebook, because Facebook strips that info. So it's not like someone could see a photo of Jayme on Facebook and find where it was taken from the EXIF data.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I live in a town where they do a lot of food manufacturing. The employees have to put in suggestions or let their supervisors know if someone is not being sanitary. Denise or Jim could have done this and got someone irate and fired or reprimanded. Do you think this plant does not want bad publicity so they are not letting investigators see this or keeping them from seeing this?? I could be totally wrong jennie o is a good product but stuff happens in work places! right?

I have no reason to believe anyone at their place of employment are being uncooperative to any of the investigators. I thought I read an article where JO stated they are fully cooperating with investigators about this case.

I believe management would care much more about the three victims receiving justice than protecting their own reputation. They would not want a murderer/kidnapper running around loose in their own community imo.

Imoo everyone knows there are bad apples found in every profession but also knows that doesnt reflect on everyone in the same company or profession.

It would do no good anyway. The police would have the power to get a judge to sign a subpoena for all employment personnel records and files including those who may have been fired and are no longer employed. I dont think that was even necessary though and the investigators were given everything LE deemed necessary to possibly rule someone in or out at JO.

I think the investigators have long interviewed everyone who work at the plant or had prior employment especially those who worked with either Jim or Denise.

Imo The 200 FBI agents are master seasoned interrogators/investigators and knows who needs to be interviewed. This is what they do and do well while doing it thoroughly. Imo

I think this was done very early in the investigation since its logical all employees both present and past at JO would need to be interviewed.

Imo they found no one who could possible be the suspect at their place of employment.

I think they have done exhaustive interviews and none of them have brought them any closer to knowing who the suspect could be.

Imo

 

[cluciano63]

The guy who broke in to steal underwear has been cleared. In fact, he is the only person LE has cleared publicly. Imo, he has an unbreakable alibi, which could include an overnight at a local jail or hospital, i.e considering his history. Jmo

 

[ilovechili]

I have no reason to believe anyone at their place of employment are being uncooperative to any of the investigators. I thought I read an article where JO stated they are fully cooperating with investigators about this case.

I believe management would care much more about the three victims receiving justice than protecting their own reputation.

Imoo everyone knows there are bad apples found in every profession but also knows that doesnt reflect on everyone in the same company or profession.

It would do no good anyway. The police would have the power to get a judge to sign a subpoena for all employment personnel records and files including those who may have been fired and are no longer employed. I dont think that was even necessary though and the investigators were given everything LE deemed necessary to possibly rule someone in or out at JO.

I think the investigators have long interviewed everyone who work at the plant or had prior employment especially those who worked with either Jim or Denise.

Imo The 200 FBI agents are master seasined interrogators/investigators and knows who needs to be interviewed. This is what they do and do well while doing it thoroughly. Imo

I think this was done very early in the investigation since its logical all employees both present and past at JO would need to be interviewed.

Imo they found no one who could possible be the suspect at their place of employment.

I think they have done exhaustive interviews and none of them have brought them any closer to knowing who the suspect could be.

Imo

No one has been excluded so it in no way means to me that there was no one found at the workplace who could be a suspect, any more than anywhere else, school, community, friends, etc. With the sheer number of employees and people in and out and trucks on a daily basis, I would not even doubt it is ongoing, the investigation of people at work. While Hormel may have agreed to cooperate, it is still a huge nationally known company and whether they would just hand private records over and let employees answer freely if it comes to anything to do with the company, without consulting with their corporate attorneys first, or having them present, that is difficult to say. In no way does that question their willingness to cooperate, just saying that is the world we live in nowadays, a very litigious society.

I also do not think they had 200 fed agents involved. I think total LE was 200 which included a lot of neighboring counties and agencies assisting in those first two weeks and DCI, etc.

Not saying that in any way to nitpick, just saying I do not think there were 200 agents at Jennie-O for the 2 weeks they were there and that per the sheriff, no one has been cleared, except the PT. And that is one huge employer with a large number of employees without even looking at those that have come and gone, may be contracted, may work in the outlying places like the turkey farms, independent trucks and vendors, etc.

To me, a connection to an employee at the plant or someone else that has occasion to intersect with the plant is as likely as anything from day one to what is now almost closing in on three months sadly.

just my opinion though.

 

[CarGoVroomVroom]

Not necessarily. The camera has to have GPS capability for that to work. Additionally, it wouldn't work with photos found on Facebook, because Facebook strips that info. So it's not like someone could see a photo of Jayme on Facebook and find where it was taken from the EXIF data.

Yes and No, if wifi is connected.. not limited to FB, see also text, snap chat, Flickr, tumblr, instagram, voxer, kik, and any other video pic app social lovers like using

 

[JRW]

I agree with you wholeheartedly. Here in Canada there is not so much of a gun presence in the home as in other countries, and frankly, I don't think anyone in my family or myself would be able to handle having one, let alone using one properly if required under stress lol. However, I do not answer the door after dark unless I know visitors are arriving and they confirm themselves through the door lol. Also, I do not like to answer the door during the day due to sales or political peddlars lol, and when I used to answer it on occasion, we would get a few oddballs too. There is really no reason to answer the door to unannounced people, and if they are in need of help, I would always be glad to call in help for them, without opening the door! Sounds a bit paranoid, but ...

I completely agree! I live near a substance abuse treatment facility, and there have been many instances where people have left in the middle of the night and the helicopter has been out searching for them, and also I have had several appear on my porch at my door. I no longer open my door in the middle of the night without checking, and now since this case has unfolded I have installed a RING doorbell so I can check without being close to the door. However before we moved to our present home, we lived in a town similar to Barron, and I would have to say that if someone knocked on my door in the middle of the night I may have answered it, I know for a fact I would have had to walk to the door to see who was there, so I'm curious if the Closs's would have had to walk up to the door to see who was outside. I still feel it was someone that they knew and thats what brought them to the door. IMO