AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #32

[ilovechili]

I completely agree! I live near a substance abuse treatment facility, and there have been many instances where people have left in the middle of the night and the helicopter has been out searching for them, and also I have had several appear on my porch at my door. I no longer open my door in the middle of the night without checking, and now since this case has unfolded I have installed a RING doorbell so I can check without being close to the door. However before we moved to our present home, we lived in a town similar to Barron, and I would have to say that if someone knocked on my door in the middle of the night I may have answered it, I know for a fact I would have had to walk to the door to see who was there, so I'm curious if the Closs's would have had to walk up to the door to see who was outside. I still feel it was someone that they knew and thats what brought them to the door. IMO

It truly depends I think on where you live and what you have encountered in life as to whether you would answer the door or not unarmed. Per LE they had never been called to the Closs residence before so at least at home, the guess is they had never had something that resulted in LE responding or to cause or instill a major fear. In that case, I do not find it that unusual to answer the door unarmed or at least to chance it. jmo. we have no idea though what occurred and whether he did. he may have responded to it being kicked in with no time to think twice...

 

[Ms Buffyton]

Just saw the video with the interview yesterday with Denise's sister Jennifer Smith. Very sad. The community is clearly keeping Jayme's name out there. Even though the family members say they have a "gut feeling", but they are still at a loss as to who is responsible for the cold blooded murder of Denise and James and the kidnapping of Jayme. I wish Jayme had more national coverage like Kyron Horman had. Again, my heart goes out for poor Kyron who is still missing. But that case had twists and turns everywhere and I made my mind up on who was behind his disappearance. The interview/article says that "Jayme is more of a daughter than a niece to Smith, who helped raise Jayme and take care of her during daycare." Jayme was clearly loved by everyone in the immediate and extended family. The sister also said "Somebody needs to come forward....they are either scared or keeping something inside." Today, Monday, the Barron County sheriff is expected to meet with the FBI to determine how the search should move forward. I sincerely hope they have looked into ALL the sex offender and meth heads. Maybe in interviewing them, they can find a parole violation and get them off the street. Hoping for some news.....anything.

 

[JRW]

Yes and No, if wifi is connected.. not limited to FB, see also text, snap chat, Flickr, tumblr, instagram, voxer, kik, and any other video pic app social lovers like using

I'm not very well educated on SnapChat but does anyone know if SnapChat messages are retrievable? I know my kids use SnapChat and after they send or receive a message it disapears in a short time and they can't retrieve it to review it. This concerns me if there is a way that the police could access old SnapChat messages or not? If Jayme was using SnapChat (many young girls do because of the cute photo filters) and she was messaging someone would the police even be able to find out?

 

[JRW]

It truly depends I think on where you live and what you have encountered in life as to whether you would answer the door or not unarmed. Per LE they had never been called to the Closs residence before so at least at home, the guess is they had never had something that resulted in LE responding or to cause or instill a major fear. In that case, I do not find it that unusual to answer the door unarmed or at least to chance it. jmo. we have no idea though what occurred and whether he did. he may have responded to it being kicked in with no time to think twice...

Another thought that crosses my mind is that there seems to be a good bit of car wrecks on the road they live on... If you search the news for the street there are quite a bit of wrecks reported. I'm thinking another option may have been someone stating they had car problems or were in a wreck and needed assistance to bring them to the door. IMO

 

[CarGoVroomVroom]

I'm not very well educated on SnapChat but does anyone know if SnapChat messages are retrievable? I know my kids use SnapChat and after they send or receive a message it disapears in a short time and they can't retrieve it to review it. This concerns me if there is a way that the police could access old SnapChat messages or not? If Jayme was using SnapChat (many young girls do because of the cute photo filters) and she was messaging someone would the police even be able to find out?

I believe the snap to a friend is fine, as long as snap map is not turned on for sharing your location. Same goes for story shares. However, if you #tag your location and subject, those may be retrievable by LE. There are three settings on the snap map when sending snaps. Share all, share friends, do not share.

 

[JRW]

Question --and this isn't off topic I swear--can you locate a person through a uploaded photo? Like on Facebook? I was reading about the correlation of voyeurism to serial killing and I uncovered the following. It stated that a perp could locate a victim through their pictures online. As in their GPS coordinates embedded in the photos. Is that true? How would that happen? TIA

Google has an image search.. You can take a photo and search for it and it will bring up any page that photo is posted on. Sometimes from that page you can acquire information about the person in the photo or the location of the photo.

 

[margarita25]

Google has an image search.. You can take a photo and search for it and it will bring up any page that photo is posted on. Sometimes from that page you can acquire information about the person in the photo or the location of the photo.

(The ole Nev and Max reverse image search trick from Catfish? I haven’t had much luck with that in cases unfortunately, moo.)

 

[oceanblueeyes]

The only reason the police publicly ruled him out was because he went into the home afterwards.

It is only logical behind the public's eye they have been able to rule many out.

Rarely if ever does LE come out and announce it when they have ruled others out even when they have..

This was an exception due to the circumstances. He didnt want the community to think they had evidence showing this pervert was the murderer and the one who had taken Jayme.

As far as who work or worked at JO in three months that is more than ample time to interview everyone the investigators felt should be interviewed.

If they had found any connection at JO... Fitzgerald certainly would have evidence of some kind even if it was strong CE which can be even more powerful than direct evidence. Imo the JO possible connection turned up nothing that would help them solve this case.

Yet at almost the three month mark according to him they have found no evidence showing them who the suspect happens to be.

I believe him when he says he has no evidence to show him who did this and that would include JO workers both past and present. Imo

He is still wanting tips and needing them in order for him to solve this case.

He wants this monster off of the street as much as the family members do.

Imo

 

[ilovechili]

Just saw the video with the interview yesterday with Denise's sister Jennifer Smith. Very sad. The community is clearly keeping Jayme's name out there. Even though the family members say they have a "gut feeling", but they are still at a loss as to who is responsible for the cold blooded murder of Denise and James and the kidnapping of Jayme. I wish Jayme had more national coverage like Kyron Horman had. Again, my heart goes out for poor Kyron who is still missing. But that case had twists and turns everywhere and I made my mind up on who was behind his disappearance. The interview/article says that "Jayme is more of a daughter than a niece to Smith, who helped raise Jayme and take care of her during daycare." Jayme was clearly loved by everyone in the immediate and extended family. The sister also said "Somebody needs to come forward....they are either scared or keeping something inside." Today, Monday, the Barron County sheriff is expected to meet with the FBI to determine how the search should move forward. I sincerely hope they have looked into ALL the sex offender and meth heads. Maybe in interviewing them, they can find a parole violation and get them off the street. Hoping for some news.....anything.

Wow, I knew nothing about this Kyron Horman case and just read it. It breaks my heart as they all do. It also sounds as if there is enough info in that case to have an opinion of who was responsible, an opinion, not a conviction. To relate it to my response here, I do not know how much coverage he had but you say hers is less. Jayme's went to the top of the missing list in the nation, billboards were out in many other states, etc. but it goes to show you that you think you have it all over but there are still people that do not know. I for instance, as I said, knew nothing about Kyron but I was also an anti TV news person but I can say I never saw it on the internet either so it did not reach all people, I am unfamiliar with it.

 

[JRW]

I believe Jayme may have been able to run through the woods in the dark. She lived here her whole life, she knew the paths. But a stranger, in the dark, nope. How does your theory have them going down the RR tracks? It's not as easy walking/running them as one would think. Cars can't drive on RR tracks. 4 wheeler maybe but isn't this a working track? Just staying parked there while you go off through the woods and do your dastardly deed, then coming back, and trusting a train didn't come in the meanwhile, wouldn't be so good. And I know one of the reasons LE ruled out the panty thief was his lack of a car. They know a car was involved, or they wouldn't have said that.

I'm curious how they know a car was involved vs a four wheeler or side by side etc. They dont have any photos or video of a car that they are releasing, so I'm curious if they found tire tracks in the driveway that don't match Denise or James car? You can eliminate several types of vehicles by the size and distance apart of tire tracks etc.

 

[JRW]

(The ole Nev and Max reverse image search trick from Catfish? I haven’t had much luck with that in cases unfortunately, moo.)

I honestly have only used it to show my aunt that the person messaging her on facebook wasn't the person that they were sending her photos of, however when i took the photos and image searched them it brought me to several pages the real person had posted the photos on that gave me a general idea of where the person worked and what town they were from. It also led me to links to their family via their facebook page

 

[margarita25]

I honestly have only used it to show my aunt that the person messaging her on facebook wasn't the person that they were sending her photos of, however when i took the photos and image searched them it brought me to several pages the real person had posted the photos on that gave me a general idea of where the person worked and what town they were from. It also led me to links to their family via their facebook page

(That’s cool

Maybe it only works on catfishes? Jk heehee)

 

[ilovechili]

Another thought that crosses my mind is that there seems to be a good bit of car wrecks on the road they live on... If you search the news for the street there are quite a bit of wrecks reported. I'm thinking another option may have been someone stating they had car problems or were in a wreck and needed assistance to bring them to the door. IMO

This road is notorious for car wrecks and it used to be even worse. The NW part of Wisconsin is not the populated part and the state money (truth) often goes to the city areas of the south, Madison, Milwaukee, etc. where there is more population and more voters. Even Eau Claire an hour to the north has Interstate coming from MN. It is a main route as has been often noted from the Mpls/St. Paul area to this part of Wisconsin and yet it is no four lane. It used to be one lane each way all of the way. Even without drunken driving and inattentive driving and other reasons, people get frustrated they cannot pass and some do so quite dangerously.

Now to give some credit it is better than it used to be years ago, there are now passing lanes/two lanes for some stretches yet no concrete median and sometimes the extra lane is for one direction and a few miles down the road it may be for the other direction so one has to pay attention. I think there was a study and effort made to make it all four-lane which would involve bypassing etc. and some small towns argued it although there really is not much on it for towns of any size but Barron (I am talking 8 going west, not the stretch going towards Rusk County). Or maybe property owners argued it, not sure, but it did not come about but in some areas extra lanes were added, turn lanes, and so forth.

It is also not unknown for deer hits, it is Wisconsin and you have seen the rural terrain around the road. Quite common.

Just trying to give an overview with nothing else really to talk about.

It would in no way surprise me if the Closses or anyone on 8 through the years had someone at their door in an accident, etc., out of gas, and so forth.

Imagine when it was just two lane (one each way) with semis, etc. Now there are some passing lanes, etc. but frac industries have been added and dump trucks are on a mission all day long too.

I know I got a bit sideways from your question but I guess my point is to point out where people have questioned traffic on this road, etc., it is quite heavy at certain points of the day and year for sure. Even though their house is not outright obvious, the Closses lived there many years and it is not unlikely they had someone at some point that stopped for help, more likely even at night because during the day, there is enough traffic someone would see a motorist broke down and they would not have to walk to get help. Also likely they were drinking, etc. is possible, they do not want to call LE for obvious reasons.

There was a case several threads back someone referenced that was interesting. It was some young kid who I think got stuck, entered a farmhouse to get something to pull himself out, found guns, etc. Then got the family's ATV stuck, etc. Found pretty quickly he was but he murdered and had probably no intent to do so when circumstances put him in his situation.

Apologize for the rambling but I will finish by saying it is very likely the same person could see Jayme every day waiting for the bus, or getting off of it. Again it is a major route. Hardly a big town on it to speak of or almost any town for stretches, but a very major route.

ETA: Eau Claire, an hour to the south, NOT north. don't trust my memory lol

 

[JRW]

I agree with all of this. It may be because she was a teenager and because such things do not happen there, abductions, double murders, etc. but it was not exactly immediate that they put out an alert and made contact with those who may know. I look at it in reverse, if there was no former contact with this family then I would likely think she was missing because there is no reason to think she is a runaway, involved, etc. as LE had no former contact (or actually I think the words were they had never been called to the home) to think there were any problems. But who knows. Not knocking LE, and not sure how quickly a missing child is generally determined in any state or circumstance and an alarm raised--to be fair, it is not like someone saw her pushed into a car at gunpoint and reported it and the car where that may raise an immediate alert in a case like that one would hope. It probably even was quicker than it sounds when one considers the need to first probably approach slowly, clear the house, secure the scene, while simultaneously trying to determine what happened and calling for all of the extra areas of assistance... In fact, when considering all of that, the time of night and the day of the week, this may be impressively quick if one has nothing to compare it to. I will correct the *time of night* to *time of morning* before I get corrected lol. jmo.

Personally I would think it would be quite obvious that a teen girl lived there. In clearing the house her room should have been obvious that a child lived there. Also photos around the house, smaller shoes, jackets etc I feel like there should have been plenty of signs that they should have had someone figuring out why someone else wasn't in the house pretty quick. IMO

 

[Rosiebones]

Local doesn't have to mean from Barron. I looked at many of the small towns around in Barron and adjacent counties and many, many are 150, or 200 people. Almost no way a person could or would step forward with an accusation or even a tip. LE needs facts if there is to be a conviction especially if families are close and alibi the perp or are afraid of them. It seems that the person who who reports the perp would have to be willing to cooperate if not actually testify and that might mean a complete break with family and friends they have known all their lives. Not gonna happen.

 

[ilovechili]

Local doesn't have to mean from Barron. I looked at many of the small towns around in Barron and adjacent counties and many, many are 150, or 200 people. Almost no way a person could or would step forward with an accusation or even a tip. LE needs facts if there is to be a conviction especially if families are close and alibi the perp or are afraid of them. It seems that the person who who reports the perp would have to be willing to cooperate if not actually testify and that might mean a complete break with family and friends they have known all their lives. Not gonna happen.

I have wondered this from the start. Is there an anonymous tip line? I agree with you that people may not come forward if in fact anyone even knows anything. No one assumes there is any privacy nowadays lol I mean look at the internet. If I called a tip in I would assume they know very well if they want to who it was that called it in and most are fine with that, they have nothing to hide. But if someone is truly scared and are connected in any way or know the perp would know only they knew that...? If they could tell something and say here is a great tip and I truly know but you have to find a way to independently find this information so I do not have to be involved, etc. or testify etc just to give a good lead? I also think let the public donate and businesses one would hope to continue to increase the reward. Who knows? Both things could make a difference. Thoughts?

 

[Fascinated1]

I'm curious how they know a car was involved vs a four wheeler or side by side etc. They dont have any photos or video of a car that they are releasing, so I'm curious if they found tire tracks in the driveway that don't match Denise or James car? You can eliminate several types of vehicles by the size and distance apart of tire tracks etc.

I have thought her running through the woods to escape was a very good possibility. But if that happened I don’t think she is alive. I think she either fell into a pond (a la Teleka) or maybe tried to hide someplace like a grain silo. I’ve been looking at maps trying to figure out where they may find her. Im sure she was scared out of her head and not thinking right. This is the only thing that makes sense to me now IF we believe the police timeline.

If we don’t believe she was there when her parents were killed and we add another 15-20 min to the available timeline based on neighbors reports of hearing gun shots, that opens up a lot of options. Including that maybe she was outside with the dog when this all went down and either was grabbed outside (which could have happened Under either scenario, I guess—except that it was a school night). I know of many 13 year olds up at 1230 on Sunday nights. Hard to sleep if they have been off school and slept late over the weekend.

 

[ilovechili]

I have thought her running through the woods to escape was a very good possibility. But if that happened I don’t think she is alive. I think she either fell into a pond (a la Teleka) or maybe tried to hide someplace like a grain silo. I’ve been looking at maps trying to figure out where they may find her. Im sure she was scared out of her head and not thinking right. This is the only thing that makes sense to me now IF we believe the police timeline.

If we don’t believe she was there when her parents were killed and we add another 15-20 min to the available timeline based on neighbors reports of hearing gun shots, that opens up a lot of options. Including that maybe she was outside with the dog when this all went down and either was grabbed outside (which could have happened Under either scenario, I guess—except that it was a school night). I know of many 13 year olds up at 1230 on Sunday nights. Hard to sleep if they have been off school and slept late over the weekend.

I think many people dismiss the running or 4 wheeler because they believe a dog search would find her. Yet there are cases where they have not. Elizabeth Smart remarked on hearing dogs barking but they never found her just for one example. I personally do not understand why there has not been more done that way but I feel like that is accusatory to say it and it is not how I man it and maybe they did far more of that than we know, how would we know?

There seems to be no proof of a vehicle nor anything else. That we are aware of. Could she not have ran? Could someone have not drug her hand over her mouth away from the house and hid? Until they had time to get away? Assuming dogs would not pick up on it later I mean. Or who knows, maybe they have a trail to a nearby road and then it disappears? Would we be told that? Not necessarily.

 

[DancingMuse]

Local doesn't have to mean from Barron. I looked at many of the small towns around in Barron and adjacent counties and many, many are 150, or 200 people. Almost no way a person could or would step forward with an accusation or even a tip. LE needs facts if there is to be a conviction especially if families are close and alibi the perp or are afraid of them. It seems that the person who who reports the perp would have to be willing to cooperate if not actually testify and that might mean a complete break with family and friends they have known all their lives. Not gonna happen.

You have had great ideas all along, Rosiebones. You add yet another good insight, after many positive contributions along with other sleuthers, who have hung in there thread-after-thread, post after post.

And it makes one think, more and more, as time goes by and by (excruciatingly for all of us):
........ that "The tip" will not only be from "left field", .....but it will be from far-left-of-left-field. (IMHO)

Sigh.

I sure hope LE has checked in with the Pharmacy at the local hospital. And the nearby drug stores in town. I'm not impugning any of the good citizens of Barron. Not at all. But several very violent crimes in my area ( a small city NOT AT ALL like Barron) had their planning stages originate from a hospital pharmacy/street-level clinic/drug store/Doctor's Office.

Here's a Horrific Example (scaled back for a small community like Barron, with components that might fit this double homicide and kidnapping) which happened right near me:

"Bob" works at pharmacy inside University-Hospital. He has a lot of friends in the criminal class. Over time, Bob supplies them with the occasional opiates. He uses them himself. Unfortunately, over time, his problem gets worse AND his friends want additional meds, which Bob cannot supply without getting discovered, as "too much would be going missing and I'll get fired, so then, our gravy train will stop." Eventually, Bob falls back onto not only stealing, selling and supplying meds to his friends, he ends up giving out INFORMATION, for a fee. Something like this might leave Bob's lips:

"There's a family out on Highway 8. Their child needs WXYZ medications for ABCD illness, she's in pain a lot. And the father ends up here getting surgery once a year, because he keeps throwing his back out at the Turkey Store. They have over $500 of painkillers at their house all the time. It is an easy strike. Their home is in the woods. All you guys need to do........is......Drive up, storm the place, ...Just.......Get in, and get out......And you'll have everything you want."
​

This isn't my favorite theory. It has a lot of holes, ..... so poke away at it.

It makes one wonder, if, ... during the commission of the crime:

a) a family member was ordered to go further into the house to retrieve the meds (bathroom, bedroom, etc.)
b) that family member was able to grab a cell-phone, and dial, surrepticiously, putting the mobile in their waist-band.
c) at some point, the cell phone FALLS OUT, alerting perps.
d) crime goes into warp-speed; remaining parent shot, (or both), and Jayme removed because she is a witness.
​

{eta: Amateur Conjecture from Life-experience only}

​

 

[JRW]

I have thought her running through the woods to escape was a very good possibility. But if that happened I don’t think she is alive. I think she either fell into a pond (a la Teleka) or maybe tried to hide someplace like a grain silo. I’ve been looking at maps trying to figure out where they may find her. Im sure she was scared out of her head and not thinking right. This is the only thing that makes sense to me now IF we believe the police timeline.

If we don’t believe she was there when her parents were killed and we add another 15-20 min to the available timeline based on neighbors reports of hearing gun shots, that opens up a lot of options. Including that maybe she was outside with the dog when this all went down and either was grabbed outside (which could have happened Under either scenario, I guess—except that it was a school night). I know of many 13 year olds up at 1230 on Sunday nights. Hard to sleep if they have been off school and slept late over the weekend.

I don't think she ran from the property, in previous threads its been mentioned that dogs lost her scent at the driveway. I'd have to look back to find the post but I can try if you want me to.