AMBER ALERT WI - Jayme Closs, 13, Barron, missing after parents found shot to death, 15 Oct 2018 *endangered* #8

[SecretGarden]

Why did the 9-11 call end— I don’t think anyone but the perp would’ve hung up the phone. I would hope.

I’m assuming D’s phone went missing with the perps, or otherwise has fingerprints on it. That would be incredible. And incredibly lucky...

 

[DexterMorgan]

If the suitcase was evidence it would be in a plastic bag to protect fibers and transfer dna. So we now agree that the suitcase probably belongs to The M.E.

It was a simple mixup that grew wings and we can now move on to something else.

 

[DexterMorgan]

Change it to a cold glass of water if that works better.

Or a warm cup of tea maybe?

 

[LucyOso]

I would agree but why Jayme. If they killed two why not one more? Escape with whatever they could find to sell or spend. A 13 year old girl. I donno. Of course after writing that Holly Bobo does come to mind. Sad.

Because, for most criminals, killing a child is a boundary. No one wants to be a child killer in prison. She also looks younger than her stated age. It sounds like she had very docile, amicable personality. Shasta Groene comes to mind.

It sounds like they were specifically looking for something, maybe cased the house. Burglary in mind. Panicked when people were home. Maybe someone knew the work schedules.

 

[ZsaZsa]

Suitcase theory busted. I agree it is the medical examiners personal equipment.
Moo

I agree. If it was potential evidence it would be inside a plastic or paper bag of some kind and not just set down on the street while she crossed the barrier tape.

 

[kspoon45]

They took the chair out of the house without a bag of any kind. The door, too.

 

[Gardener1850]

I’ve been trying to read through the threads but so many to go through. These are questions I have so please enlighten me if I’ve missed the answers:

Was the house ransacked in any way?
We don't known.

Neighbor hearing shots at 12:30 am but then 911 isn’t called for more than 20 minutes later. It’s odd that the perps would hang around after firing a loud gun - for 20 minutes - unless they were looking for something. That’s awfully risky. And it wouldn’t take them 20 minutes to break a bathroom door down.
I'm somewhat taking the neighbor's time with a grain of salt because she has contradicted herself on many other things and said LE told her that her clock was off by 8 minutes. However, if it took 20 minutes, my thought is that the perp was trying to get Jayme. She could have hidden or could have been clinging to her mom's body and needed to be cleaned up or needed warmer clothes. Ordering a hysterical child at gun point after killing her parents may get the desired response but she may have been moving slowly due to shock. We don't know what was said or how the 911 call was made-- perhaps Jayme found a way to stall so she could get her mom's phone and call 911. Or perhaps the perp took time to tie her up and blindfold her before carrying her out. Too much we don't know. JMO.

Has medical examiner determined time of each death?
Probably. Autopsies are complete. But LE has not told us that info.

I keep thinking they found out there was money or some other valuables stashed and these perps are aquaintances of the family- whether from that party or coworker of parents or just someone that overheard something.

I sadly, fwiw think Jayme was taken from house because once they realized the police were called then they to get out. If they were looking to kidnap her, I just think there would be sightings or leads - more than what we’ve seen. Unless the fbi has some contact with kidnappers that they don’t want to talk about, also bringing rest of family on danger.

There’s too little info being made public. I think they have ‘an idea’ and there’s a reason why the family and employer is so quiet. I don’t think any of it’s going to end well.

My answers in pink

Too many unknowns

JMO

 

[Andreee]

I have missed so much of this thread. Is there confirmation that Jayme's dad frequented the casino or that he gambled at all? I have seen a lot of posts indicating a connection to the casino. He just didn't seem like the type. Jmo

 

[SJ16321]

It's not difficult to see that a door has been kicked in forcefully. Police can tell pretty quickly just by looking at it.
I think this house was chosen because it is somewhat isolated from view, and it appeared well cared for by the occupants. That means that there were valuable items that could be taken and later sold, but this was most likely not a home with an extensive security system.
I also have a working theory that Jayme was not the intended reason for the home invasion, but she was the victim of a crime of opportunity. The perp/perps planned a home invasion and decided they wanted Jayme as well after they were inside, so she was taken as they fled the home. Sort of a twist on a scenario similar to what happened to the Clutter family from In Cold Blood. One of those 2 men wanted to rape Nancy Clutter but his partner stopped him. It also reminds me of the home invasion suffered by the Petit family. I think the reason Jayme was taken away was due to the 911 call....there was no time to continue the crime at the home.
This is just another THEORY that I have, as I stated earlier.

I'm starting to believe the running out of time theory as a possibility myself the more I think about it. It's more than plausible that they crapped it when they discovered the 911 call and thought officers could arrive at any second bearing in mind it's a main road outside and the police department is located just 3 miles away. I can certainly see why they might have just grabbed her and got out of there.

I was fairly confident before they purposely went for Jayme but why spend so long in the property? Surely if they just wanted Jayme they could have quickly killed the parents, put her in the car and be gone inside 2-3 minutes.

 

[Stragnet]

It's not difficult to see that a door has been kicked in forcefully. Police can tell pretty quickly just by looking at it.
I think this house was chosen because it is somewhat isolated from view, and it appeared well cared for by the occupants. That means that there were valuable items that could be taken and later sold, but this was most likely not a home with an extensive security system.
I also have a working theory that Jayme was not the intended reason for the home invasion, but she was the victim of a crime of opportunity. The perp/perps planned a home invasion and decided they wanted Jayme as well after they were inside, so she was taken as they fled the home. Sort of a twist on a scenario similar to what happened to the Clutter family from In Cold Blood. One of those 2 men wanted to rape Nancy Clutter but his partner stopped him. It also reminds me of the home invasion suffered by the Petit family. I think the reason Jayme was taken away was due to the 911 call....there was no time to continue the crime at the home.
This is just another THEORY that I have, as I stated earlier.

Strongly agree, especially after details of the 911 call were released.

 

[Stragnet]

Haven't seen that video before. Now I've even more convinced that the case belongs to the ME. In addition to setting the suitcase on the ground, neither of the women are wearing gloves.

Yes- ME wouldn’t be carrying evidence.

 

[Stragnet]

I would agree but why Jayme. If they killed two why not one more? Escape with whatever they could find to sell or spend. A 13 year old girl. I donno. Of course after writing that Holly Bobo does come to mind. Sad.

Unfortunately, they would have taken Jayme for the wrong reasons.

 

[Stragnet]

They took the chair out of the house without a bag of any kind. The door, too.

ME wasn’t carrying those items, though .....

 

[nwmouse]

I have missed so much of this thread. Is there confirmation that Jayme's dad frequented the casino or that he gambled at all? I have seen a lot of posts indicating a connection to the casino. He just didn't seem like the type. Jmo

I thought the only significance of the casino is the security footage LE could access from their outdoor cameras?
MOO.

 

[MesquiteO21]

Here is where I'm at right now, this could change of course, but just kicking around thoughts:

I'm not discounting the possibility that this was random/home invasion gone wrong OR wrong house/mistaken identity, and the only reason Jayme wasn't killed in the house is because perp(s) panicked with the 911 call so they took her and fled. If this is the case, that would mean they were not prepared to hide/dispose of a body and they probably made a lot of mistakes and were disorganized. In this scenario, Jayme will most likely be found sooner rather than later.

However...the longer we go with no direction and no evidence, I'm inclined to believe that this was premeditated to take Jayme. Sadly this means the person knew where they wanted to take her so the chances of finding her become infinitely harder.

 

[Gardener1850]

They took the chair out of the house without a bag of any kind. The door, too.

While wearing gloves and being careful not to touch the items or set them in the dirt. And the items went in the evidence truck parked inside the crime scene tape. The ME took her suitcase out of the driveway and set it down to pass under the tape. And it did not appear she had on gloves.

 

[LucyOso]

I agree, they might have run out of time. I just hope LE calling the number back did not alert them to a location if someone was hiding. If the perps saw the phone with calls/outgoing they knew their time was closing in. Just curious, when police responded did they have dash cam video? Could they have passed the perps car?

 

[Stragnet]

So was James Closs still alive (but wounded) when police showed up (see below in bold type)? And why did the officers initially believe he had shot himself/suicide attempt.

911 logs tell grim tale of Wisconsin teen Jayme Closs' disappearance and parents' murder

“1:03 a.m.

From the Closs home, officers first advised dispatch of a possible suicide attempt. The call was entered into the logs as such, and officers requested EMTs.

At 1:05 a.m., officers on scene relayed the first details from the scene within five minutes of arrival. They did not yet appear to know that Denise Closs had been fatally shot.

“325 ADVISED ONE MALE DOWN, MULTIPLE ROUNDS SPENT. REQUESTED THAT ADMIN BE NOTIFIED.”

1:06 a.m.

“...ADVISED THE DOOR HAS BEEN KICKED IN. ADVISED THAT THE MALE WHO IS DOWN HAD ANSWERED THE DOOR. UNKNOWN IF ANYONE IS MISSING.”

 

[MsBetsy]

I thought the only significance of the casino is the security footage LE could access from their outdoor cameras?
MOO.

That's what I thought too...