WI WI - Kelly Nolan, 22, Madison, 23 Jun 2007 #2

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You know, there is a Fire Department on West Doty approximately 3 minutes from Zimmermann's apartment.

Also, it is only 1 minute (approx. 4 blocks) away from Kelly's apartment building. (Which is only .2 mi. from the Fire Department at 325 W. Johnson.)

Also posted on Zimmerman's thread
 
I guess my words turned out to be very prophetic. I'm so sad about all of this. MPD had better hope that Kelly's killer and Brittany's killer are not the same person. They didn't allow the public to help, they released almost NO information.

Greta is on the story, and hopefully she won't let up.

Hello Ang, SS and everyone!!! So nice to be back online. Glad to see you all again.
 
((((Mssheila)))) So glad to see you!

I think about Kelly Nolan alot myself and wonder what is going on there. I guess this case will never go away for me knowing other female students are as much of a target now as she was then. LE doesn't seem concerned about that factor and the college, of course, doesn't want it to be upfront in the minds of the parents who are paying those high tuitions for their daughters to go to school there!

Can you help me track down some information on a man I think they should take a closer look at? I would have asked sooner, but you were gone. I want to know more about the fireman who had a breakdown and took off with his children at the time Kelly was missing. They had an Amber Alert out for him and found them safe, but this really stood out in my mind.


Here is what I found SS:

His name is Craig Underkofler. Here is what I found about him.

http://www.channel3000.com/news/13614618/detail.html

Websleuths page:
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=50974

http://www.channel3000.com/news/13625606/detail.html

http://www.channel3000.com/news/13630414/detail.html

http://www.wisn.com/news/13619639/detail.html
 
Thanks, MsSheila! We have pulled a lot of info out about him in the past 24 hours. He got off the felony charges for kidnapping his children due to "Mental Disease". I believe he was released 2-28-08. I guess it makes him legally certifiable at the time Kelly went missing tho, doesn't it?
 
Hi SS. I guess it does make him legally certifiable, but I didn't link the two. What makes you think of him in relation to the Nolan murder? He kidnapped his own children.... I didnt hear he had done anything against the general public, has he?
 
A man who committed a crime like the one against Kelly might show definite signs of instability in the following days. He was on vacation at the time and did not have his children until right after she went missing. The two plus two I am putting together is there. This man went from being fairly normal into a raging loon in those few days. He took a gun with him and kidnapped his four children due to paranoid delusions of people coming after them. If he had brutally killed a young girl then maybe they weren't just paranoid delusions...see what I mean?!
 
Do they ever solve cases in this college town? I wonder if there is any evidence in Kelly's case. Now there is a second female dead. I hope all students are being really careful. It's a scary situation.
 
One of our posters, Patience, pointed out a very interesting suspect. Check this out- here's her post.

Patience
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Fitchburg man sentenced in attack on Madison woman
Hope it's ok that I post this news here due to the recent unsolved homicides. Does anyone know how close Fitchburg is to Madison?

http://www.madison.com/wsj/home/local/283238

A Fitchburg man who attacked a stranger in the stairwell of her apartment building in 2006 was sentenced Friday to seven years and six months in prison.
Dane County Circuit Judge John Markson also placed Paul C. Aud, 34, on nine years and six months of extended supervision after prison. Markson found Aud guilty of second degree attempted sexual assault and substantial battery in November.
The parallels with recent unsolved homicides in Madison, apparently committed by strangers in the victims' homes, made Aud's sentencing that much more emotional.
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This guy was out on bond after sexually assaulting this young lady from September 2006 to November 2007.

Kelly went missing in June of 07.

Paul Aud sexually assaulted this 20 year old on August 23rd 2007.

GEORGE L. THOMAS was killed the very next day after the sexual assault. This was two months after Kelly Nolan went missing and was later found dead.

Paul Aud could EASILY be the suspect in Kelly's murder. The police have his DNA from the sexual assault, but we have never heard whether there was DNA at Kelly's crime scene, or any of the other murders. The only problem is that this would mean we have two or more murderers on our hands, as he was in custody when Brittany Zimmerman and Joel Marino was killed. Joel Marino was murdered on January 28th of 2008. Aud was in custody from November 15th 2007 to present.

I'd say that Patience might be onto something here.... Aud could be a suspect for both Kelly Nolan and George Thomas' murders.

What do you think?
 
A man who committed a crime like the one against Kelly might show definite signs of instability in the following days. He was on vacation at the time and did not have his children until right after she went missing. The two plus two I am putting together is there. This man went from being fairly normal into a raging loon in those few days. He took a gun with him and kidnapped his four children due to paranoid delusions of people coming after them. If he had brutally killed a young girl then maybe they weren't just paranoid delusions...see what I mean?!

SS- I DO see what you mean! What do you think about Paul Aud as a suspect?
 
I think they have DNA from Kelly's murder or at least some evidence. They spent 3 days with several agencies on the scene!! They had to come up with at least something tangible.

They should certainly look at Aud for those.

I wish that Kelly Nolan's family would speak up!! They need to forget what LE said about talking to the media and wage a flipping war on the Chief of Police, imo. It is time for them to start shouting for people to listen to the case of their daughter. LE is not doing ANYTHING to find Kelly Nolan's killer.
 
This was being discussed on the Possible Serial Killer thread and I am moving the posts over here to keep Kelly's case together.

What I was implying was this:

In 1972, while a juvenile, my now-wife, (who I'm still married to), was incarcerated at Oregon School for Girls in Oregon, Wisconsin (this was 36 years ago). OSfG's shut down in 1976 I believe, or rather became an adult correctional facility.

While there, she observed numerous instances of male guards fraternizing (aka sexual favors for facility privileges) with juvenile female inmates, which included guards taking certain juvenile female inmates off grounds (using their private vehicles) for the weekend for sexual favors and returning them when the weekend was over. Other sexual encounters occurred on grounds also.

My wife also told me that there were numerous suicides at this facility by female inmates. (Gee, I wonder why?) One of those suicides was a friend of my wife's, Joann Williams, a female juvenile inmate whose twin's were taken away from her when she gave birth while at the facility.

Because Kelly Nolan's body was found near Oregon, Wisconsin I thought this might be a lead since these certain guards are still out there living in the community and it appears that the Madison area has had a high incident rate of unsolved rapes, murders, etc. over the years. Correct me if I'm wrong. You don't see LE websites posting their crime statistics very much anymore, do you? (But they sure don't mind posting your criminal record on the internet, no matter how minor, for the rest of eternity, so I don't mind criticizing them eternally in return).

However, off that subject, while I was further checking out a news article posted here (I scoured your site for info) and comparing it with another person, I was able to make what I felt was a strong connection between these two people and Kelly Nolan. I felt that since this connection did not come out in the investigation, it was overlooked. That connection/information I did turn in to Crimestoppers and is totally unrelated to the OSfG's scenario. If they eventually don't develop any leads from it, I still plan on posting that connection/information here eventually in the hopes that someone closer to the events than I am will make a further connection.

[I know how these cases end up forgotten. I remember a case from Milwaukee back in the late 60's, early 70's, (I think?) where a Milwaukee Riverside High School student was abducted and ended up in pieces down just off 7 Mile Rd. in the Racine County area (another area with a high rate of unsolved murders). I can't even think of her name anymore and she sure isn't even mentioned on the Racine LE sites. Her case isn't even mentioned on the internet, in fact. So, that's how cases like these end up (buried and forgotten) unless they are pursued outside LE circles].

I feel that the evidence I found makes a strong connection to why the body was found at this particular location and these two people. I am not implying that these two people had anything to do with the murder (though they could have), but may have been the reason Kelly Nolan ended up where she did. Their connection is way more than just coincidental and I believe you'll agree too once you see it.

I am in no way connected to this case other than having come across Websleuth's site and finding what I feel are strong clues in all the data links posted here, I know no one who lives in this area and I don't live in the Madison area either.

I did notice an incorrect statement at: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1863556/posts where it states: "Wray would not say exactly where the body was discovered, but Patricia Wardell, who lives at 4724 Schneider Road, said it was on the property of her neighbor..."

Using the Dane county property/address locator (I forget what it's called), 4724 Schneider Road was actually the property of the neighbor (location of the body), and the Wardell address was incorrect. Did anyone catch that reporting error?

Thanks for letting me speak my piece...
 
Another post:
Thanks for clearing that up, TangledWeb. I had a feeling that there might have been an Oregon, WI. I apologize for not checking. Your information is quite compelling. I'm not sure what was posted specifically about Kelly because I hadn't followed that thread, but what was brought to my attention (my daughter went to school out in WI) was that Kelly was found in "pieces" (sorry for being graphic). Could that be the reason for the discrepency in the address? I just don't know enough to say. I'll need to go research it more. Unfortunately, you are right about the fact that LE hasn't given very much information. I was also led to believe that Kelly may have known the person she walked away with...or that's what the person who was last with her outside the bar had said.
 
It has never been publically stated the COD for Kelly Nolan nor have "pieces" been mentioned.

It is my theory, however, that she was stabbed because intitially LE said without any doubt that she was dead by viewing her from a distance. To me, it means it had to be overtly obvious and not caused by a single gunshot wound or strangulation. IIRC, her body laid there for 3 days as "several" agencies scoured the property surrounding the crime scene for forensic evidence.

I don't think it was confirmed that Kelly actually knew the person she was supposedly handed off to. The bar guy said that the man claimed to know her. Kelly was inhebriated and it is possible she only knew him in passing.
 
Continued:
SS- I'll have to ask my daughter to clarify that...she was in Madison at the time and that info was known by many of the students. How they came by it, I'll have to verify. And you're right...there was no confirmation that Kelly did in fact "know" the man she walked away with.
 
Cont.:
Now that would be a good reason to bring in over 100 LE's from numerous agencies to scour a large crime scene area and at the same time not disclosing the COD in order to not panic the student community. Also, not to tangle the web, there's nothing more overt than being in pieces.

One thing I also noticed while researching was only one neighbor (out of quite a few) noticed a strong odor in the 17 days since the disappearance. On top of that, he didn't notice any odor until at least a week before the body was discovered. Considering a decomposing body starts smelling within 24 hours after death, one would think that the smell would have been noticed sooner than a week before the victim was found.

Two reasons why the odor wasn't noticed earlier than a week before it was found: The body (or even the pieces, if applicable) were wrapped in plastic or other material (delaying/containing the process of decomposition) and/or the time of death wasn't actually until sometime in the week before the discovery. This would lead one to believe the deceased was possibly still alive until about a week before the body was found.

You'll note from news reports that LE had been out a week earlier than the date the body was found searching this area but could not find anything. Possibly because there was no body and possibly because the "ping" location had changed in the interim? This would lead one to conclude that either the body and cellphone's location had changed in that week or else the victim was still alive until the time of the first search and had been alive in the area but then was killed and her location changed.

One would then wonder where the victim had been the first week and why LE "was confident she was still alive" at that time. (I think I read the above quote somewhere on line)

I don't believe that this was a "stranger killing" but a killing by someone who knew the victim. LE has alluded to this in their comments since the death which can be found in WS links in this thread and on the internet.

One other note: If you "Googlemap" the address from where the victim was last seen and the address of her apartment you'll notice the distance is longer in the direction she was being taken by the bouncer (or she directed the bouncer to take her) than if she had gone the other way? Why? Was she actually being taken to a vehicle (or another location other than her apartment) rather than being walked home?

I didn't read as to how drunk (or drugged) the victim appeared to be at bar time but she must have been coherent enough to tell her first escort where she lived in order for him to start taking her home. Why take the long way home?
 
I don't know what map you are using because Kelly's place was pretty much a straight shot from the bar area where she was last seen. I will have to go back to look, but I think it was 2.5 blocks away. I have no doubt she was led directly to a vehicle tho.

We scoured every detail of Kelly's case from Day One. We worked on different scenarios and POIs. I came up with one viable POI, imo. (He went publically bonkers in a few short days following her disappearance.)

The other possible reason no odor was detected could be due to the direction of the wind. However, I believe she was taken there and killed immediately after her abduction. I have found no reason to suspect otherwise.
 
Cont.:
Thanks for clearing that up, TangledWeb. I had a feeling that there might have been an Oregon, WI. I apologize for not checking. Your information is quite compelling. I'm not sure what was posted specifically about Kelly because I hadn't followed that thread, but what was brought to my attention (my daughter went to school out in WI) was that Kelly was found in "pieces" (sorry for being graphic). Could that be the reason for the discrepency in the address? I just don't know enough to say. I'll need to go research it more. Unfortunately, you are right about the fact that LE hasn't given very much information. I was also led to believe that Kelly may have known the person she walked away with...or that's what the person who was last with her outside the bar had said.
 
Cont.:
You're correct. When I re-Googled Lava Lounge, 461 Gilman St. to Amy's Cafe, 414 Gilman St. to Ambassador Apts, 434 W. Mifflin St., it showed the shorter route is going northeast on Gilman. But, going southwest on Gilman to University Ave just from Lava Lounge (with Amy's Cafe out of the picture) is actually a shorter distance to the apartment on Mifflin.
 
Cont.:
Some quotes/links that allude to the above statement:

http://www.620wtmj.com/news/local/8440012.html

A forensics team was taking one last look at "soil beneath the area to see if there's any other evidence that can be gleaned," he said.

(How large of an area? Evidence like as in other homicides?)

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288727,00.html

Wray said cell-phone technology led police to mount a massive search Monday morning in the area where the body was found. The search focused on a 3-square-mile area around Fitchburg that included part of the neighboring village of Oregon, just off U.S. Highway 14.
Investigators were taking their time with the search for evidence because the area was so large and the death scene was described as complex. Stanley said investigators haven't even touched the body yet.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,288652,00.html

The Nolan family has not seen the body, said DeSpain, adding that the discovery of a body has uncovered an unsolved homicide case that is not necessarily linked to Kelly Nolan.

The FBI was assisting the Madison Police Department investigation and the search, Special Agent Doug Porrini of the FBI Milwaukee office told FOXNews.com.

The underlined statement in red is very interesting. (taking into consideration the FBI gets involved in all serial killings)

What "unsolved homicide case" was uncovered during the investigation? Anyone know?
 
Cont.:
Goosebump time, TW. The FBI also gets involved in crimes that occur when someone has been transported over state lines (or any crime that occurs across state line, if I'm not mistaken)...so it could mean that this involves someone missing from another state, perhaps? Could this also have led to the "talk" that there were "body parts" found? I have never seen that info...thanks for uncovering it. I want to now go back and read about the nature of the cell phone activity.
 

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