Found Deceased WI - Kodie Dutcher, 10, may be suicidal, Baraboo, 6 July 2020

[shinimeggie]

I may be confused (which happens a lot!), but why would we assume that just because her mum is a nurse, her daughter would have access to all these different types of pills that people are speculating?

Nurses don't normally bring medications home with them, and getting strong painkillers from a hospital setting would be hard for a full grown adult, let alone a kid! Again, maybe I'm overlooking something like her mum was a nurse who went to clients' homes and brought her daughter with her, but I don't see just from 'mum being a nurse' meaning she had these types of meds people are speculating.

Paracetamol can kill you. Ibuprofen can kill you. Over-the-counter sleep meds can kill you. Hell, anti-histamines can kill you! All especially a young girl who would need less pills to kill her, very very sadly.

 

[Seattle1]

@Seattle1 unfortunately a lot of kids have unrestricted internet access. just part of the world we live in these days

From the presser by LE just before KD was found, they said the mom kept tight controls on her SM, and mom would receive alerts when KD posted and that mom controlled the contacts. I hope it's true.

 

[kay74]

<modsnip: Removed snarky comment>Who told the mother she ingested medications? Who was with this little girl? I hope someone didn't force her to take meds and then did something to her.

 

[Detectivediva]

<modsnip: Removed snarky comment> Who told the mother she ingested medications? Who was with this little girl? I hope someone didn't force her to take meds and then did something to her.

From the article it sounded like when they looked around they discovered missing medication (and based on the reported note...assumed she took them). I too have a bit of doubt and I hope the ME really considers all factors before agreeing on self harm.

 

[PhoebeTries]

RSBM

if it is eventually determined to be a suicide, I think it’s a possibility that it was a cry for help and she didn’t fully grasp the finality of her actions. Maybe on some level she thought she’d be found before it was too late and would get the help she deserved.

This is a big problem for children at risk of suicide, their brains are not developed enough to understand the finality and they are more likely to act on impulse.
For everyone doubting this scenario: I pray you only say this online and take the warning signs from kids around you seriously. There is so much valuable information about child suicide online and I implore you to acknowledge this risk factor. In the US, in 2016 more kids died from suicide than homicide.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsr1804754

 

[Reluctant1]

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=656275071629380

Many details by LE about the 911 call and description and demeanor of KD when she disappeared.

thanks for this link. The question and answer around 10 minutes in was especially interesting

 

[SuziQ]

Poor little angel. If she truly walked through a cornfield, her feet should be dirty and have scrapes and cuts.

 

[Tippy Lynn]

So sad

 

[Seattle1]

RSBM

This is a big problem for children at risk of suicide, their brains are not developed enough to understand the finality and they are more likely to act on impulse.
For everyone doubting this scenario: I pray you only say this online and take the warning signs from kids around you seriously. There is so much valuable information about child suicide online and I implore you to acknowledge this risk factor. In the US, in 2016 more kids died from suicide than homicide.
https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMsr1804754

I agree about child/juvenile suicide and the subjects not having developmental maturity and are more impulsive. I also think they have an incomplete concept of death. Just the same, regardless of whether they understand the consequences of their actions, I do think children may consider death as an option to end their emotional pain without fully understanding the finality of their actions. bbm

I looked up some methods of suicide typical at development age 10 and they followed along the lines I expected (i.e.,risk-taking) such as running into the street, climbing buildings or tall trees, and ingesting inedible material including poison.

I wasn't surprised OD on prescription meds not on the list -- probably because they're not usually available to them.

I learned during the first presser that KD (and her mom?) only recently moved to WI from another state. I wonder who KD left behind?

Appears her mom was totally unaware. Missed the signs. So heartbreaking or all who loved this child.

MOO

 

[Rosegold68]

I believe she did this herself

it feels real ... rest in peace poor little girl

 

[LucyRocket]

There are a couple of questions I'd like them to have asked. Mainly who else was in the home at the time she left? In my community, I don't know anyone who would leave a 10 year old child home alone while they go to work, so was anyone else there?

Secondly, what directed them towards her ingesting pills so quickly? If my child went missing I wouldn't think to look in the medication cabinet. If I did look in the medication cabinet I wouldn't have a clue what was there yesterday and what is missing today. The only scenario I can think of that brought them to this quickly is that the packets/ jars that the pills were in, were evident in the home. However, in the press conference the Lieutenant says they don't know what medication she took, which means the containers can't have been left behind

MOO

Edit to add some after thoughts

Could be 1. The cabinet door was open or 2. That we haven't seen the complete contents of the note she left

MOO

 

[Rose in SC]

shinimeggie - Thank you so much for your touching, insightful post upthread. As someone whose childhood was marred by emotional neglect, insecurities, and suicidal ideation at an early age, THANK YOU. Whatever brought this young girl to her death, it is a tragedy.

 

[Seattle1]

There are a couple of questions I'd like them to have asked. Mainly who else was in the home at the time she left? In my community, I don't know anyone who would leave a 10 year old child home alone while they go to work, so was anyone else there?

Secondly, what directed them towards her ingesting pills so quickly? If my child went missing I wouldn't think to look in the medication cabinet. If I did look in the medication cabinet I wouldn't have a clue what was there yesterday and what is missing today. The only scenario I can think of that brought them to this quickly is that the packets/ jars that the pills were in, were evident in the home. However, in the press conference the Lieutenant says they don't know what medication she took, which means the containers can't have been left behind

MOO

Edit to add some after thoughts

Could be 1. The cabinet door was open or 2. That we haven't seen the complete contents of the note she left

MOO

I share your concerns about the child care here when mom was at work.

We know that they were new to the state and living in an apartment. We also know that her mom reportedly face-timed with KD around 4 pm, and was home from work within 30-45 minutes later.

Perhaps KD was looked after by a neighbor that excused herself at 4 pm when KD was on the video call with her mom and she took advantage of that opportunity to slip outside undetected.

It's painful to think of her mom describing those last moments talking with her daughter on the video call as KD being happy and excited because they were going camping together the very next day.

So KD said goodbye to her mom and walked out to her grave? There's no way to make sense of this tragedy. MOO

 

[AC's Grandma]

@Vail

Her mom is very young, a nurse, and in a new relationship (the guy seems great by all accounts, don't think there is a problem with that- hopefully) so it is possible Kodie feels alone and without a lot of support but her mom clearly loves her a lot.

BBM

Vail, where did you get this information from? I haven't seen it in MSM. My hinky meter goes up when a new interest of the parent comes into the picture.
MOO JMO IMO

 

[Toodles5000]

I completely understand having suspicions that this was not a suicide. Unfortunately we've all been around long enough to know that things aren't always as they first seem.

That being said, it's a little upsetting to me to hear that some don't think it's even within the realm of possibility that a 10 year old could take their own life. IMO, it's part of a larger problem - if we don't accept that not everyone's brains work the same as ours, that there's NO WAY a child could have suicidal ideation and follow through, then we are doing a disservice to those around us that may be suffering. Being in denial that depression exists and can be extremely serious doesn't help us recognize the signs that may be there when someone we love is in pain. Mental illness isn't something we would wish on anyone, especially those we love. But understanding and accepting that it does exist, and that it can be managed, might just make for more open dialogues and could lead to someone recognizing someone's struggles and supporting them as they seek help. We've been burying our heads in the sand because it's hard to talk about and accept. That's just human nature, but isn't productive.

Just my two cents.

 

[akazia1978]

Children are different nowadays. I have a 13 year old that is kind of down from social isolation...they are spending a lot of time on the internet and phones now. I remember finding out that she was watching some show "Adult/Older Dora". Check it out for an idea of what tweens watch nowadays. I was shocked, but this show is a fad in her k-8 school. I believe this was suicide, people have generally been more depressed and stressed lately.

 

[akazia1978]

That show is on YouTube if anyone decides to check it out...and then you will see why I don't think this is a far stretch when 8-13 year olds are watching things like that. They know more than people may think

 

[momsof3]

@Toodles5000 - I could not agree more. I almost didn't post - there are so many thoughtful posts here. But I feel compelled by my recent experience with children and mental health crises. Last year a boy in my middle daughter's school committed suicide. 12 years old. Now my youngest, one year older than Kodie, has completely come unraveled during COVID. She is in an intact, two parent family with two close-in-age siblings, in the house/community she was born in.

I share this only because I feel that Kodie's situation is a literal recipe for a mental health crisis. Move to a new place. Plus the isolation of COVID and online school. Plus alone in an apartment (at least some of the time). Plus parent required to work away from home during the COVID crisis. No other person in the home - that I can tell. Plus new parental relationship. Plus access to social media, specifically snap chat - which has absolutely no positive and unlimited negative. She seems so incredibly isolated it makes my heart ache.

I still have questions - so well articulated below. It does seem that the circumstances will allow LE to pretty quickly determine - was there a video chat at 4? Was there a 911 call at 4:30. Was there evidence on the soles of her feet of walking.

No way around that this is an enormous sorrow. It has stuck with me since the thread title changed.

I'm not saying its beyond the realm of possibility. I worked in mental health for a long time, so the young age isn't uncommon for thoughts, necessarily, but it is unusual for this type of extreme action.

I think because we all are used to looking at these cases, we see puzzle pieces and how they fit. This puzzle has some pieces that don't seem typical for the puzzle we have in front of us. Thats it. It doesn't make it impossible, just gives many of us pause.

Here are the few pieces that mean nothing, honestly, but are the ones that immediately in my mind gave questions. Again, not specific to this sweet girl, just any similar situation.
1. My son is over 10 and has never swallowed a pill. He only takes liquid medicine, still. It seems unusual that a young, small stature child would choose many pills. Did she bring water to take the pills, but no shoes to the cornfield? I wpuld think you have to take a whole lot in a short time to actually die instead of just pass out.
2. Was anyone home with her and didn't realize she left? Or was she home alone at 10?
3. Was this known memtal health issues that she was currently struggling with? And if so, was anyone with her?
4. Was she caught on any video surveillance on front doors or anything? When did someone last actually see her.
5. It was reported it was unusual for her to leave on her own. She would have to know well enoigh how to walk a mile away to her prechosen? Spot in a corn field where no one stopped to ask her if she needed help along the way.

I really hated even writing these things because its not questions I actually need answers to. I will trust the police, when they release the manner and cause of death. But, I just wanted to kind of clarify that people aren't necessarily questioning the depth of real thoughts and emotions of a 10 year old. Its other supporting facts that combined with it just dont allow us to not leave other options open. Until there is official word. I think many of us feel it would not be doing her and her memory justice to make sure that we look at all the possibilities. Once the facts are clear, we will be better able to help.people with similar problems, in the future.

I share your concerns about the child care here when mom was at work.

We know that they were new to the state and living in an apartment. We also know that her mom reportedly face-timed with KD around 4 pm, and was home from work within 30-45 minutes later.

Perhaps KD was looked after by a neighbor that excused herself at 4 pm when KD was on the video call with her mom and she took advantage of that opportunity to slip outside undetected.

It's painful to think of her mom describing those last moments talking with her daughter on the video call as KD being happy and excited because they were going camping together the very next day.

So KD said goodbye to her mom and walked out to her grave? There's no way to make sense of this tragedy. MOO

 

[Chichi baby]

The passing of this little 10 year old girl by suicide, just breaks my heart. She had so much living left. This is so very sad. RIP sweetheart!! God bless and comfort her family.

 

[GoneGoldfishin']

Oh no! Signed on tonight to check on this thread specifically and am very sad to see the found deceased title.

My hinky meter wasnt going off at all earlier but after reading other posts, her not leaving with shoes does seem a bit odd. Does it mean anything? I have no idea. But it IS odd for any person to leave their home without shoes. Was she in an extreme hurry when she left? Just didnt care about comfort at that point considering what her plan was?

This was out of the ordinary for her? Never attempted anything like this before?

What percentage of very young kids (say 8-12?) who commit suicide are successful on the very first attempt? Anyone know the stats on this?

Regarding the bolded:
When in the grips of a depressive episode, I can assure you it is certainly within the realm of possibility to leaves ones house with no shoes, one shoe, inappropriate shoes for the terrain. You are just in a stupor; a hopeless, catatonic, one foot in front of the other stupor. Walking, barely dragging on for no reason, no purpose, just going. Away from the pain. Away. Maybe you will collapse. It doesn't matter.
I have seen so many people on this thread question the footwear aspect of this sad situation, that even it it turns out to be something other than suicide for this poor child, people should realize that depression does things to you that most people will never understand. IME.