WI - Teresa Marie Halbach, 25, Manitowoc, 31 Oct 2005

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That is a blow for Teresa's family. I'm sure that the judge wanted Avery to pay for his attornies instead of the state paying for them. So, no matter how you look at it Steven Avery didn't get to spend a dime of that money he won except to hire attornies! Isn't that just so stupid. The big pervert could have had $400,000 to spend any way that he wanted. Instead he chose to rape and murder and destroy the life of a young lady who had her whole life ahead of her. Now he gets to sit in prison the rest of his life and hope that mom and dad send him a few bucks now and then for commissary. Pitiful.
 
It could be a long two days while about 20 motions are being heard in the first days of Steven Avery's trial. Among the motions: The defense wants the charges thrown out or a delay because of pre-trial publicity while the prosecution not only wants the jury to visit the Avery property but view every building on that site.

http://wfrv.com/local/local_story_186155244.html

Sherlockmom
 
Are they just getting all of these hearings out of the way before they actually start the trial? Are they going to have the trial now or did I read something about October? Sounds like Steve Avery is trying to come up with all kinds of stuff like how LE were out to get him....please!!
 
>Are they just getting all of these hearings out of the way before they actually start the trial? Are they going to have the trial now or did I read something about October? Sounds like Steve Avery is trying to come up with all kinds of stuff like how LE were out to get him....please!!<

Ack!!! These are a series of hearings. The trial is scheduled to start Oct 16th I believe. Avery's attorneys filed a motion to delay but I think that was denied. More hearings are scheduled during July. I think there were quite a few motions to get out of the way before they can start the trial, choosing a jury etc.

It does seem that Avery's attorneys are going to try to pull every rabbit out of the hat to put roadblocks in the way. I think in one of the articles it even mentions the defense having a motion to include Halbach's personal history during the trial. I took it to mean they will try to dig up some dirt on her or make it sound like she had it coming.

Sherlockmom
 
Oh how I detest defense attorneys. It doesn't matter what kind of past Teresa had. She went to his junk yard in good faith to take pictures of some old heap that he wanted to sell. That is what she was told on the phone anyway. That is all that matters. Even if she had been loose as a goose she sure wouldn't have had anything to do with a fat ugly slob like Steve Avery or his pukey nephew. I don't think any jury could be convinced of that. They both make me want to puke just looking at them.

Avery's attorney has to know that he is fried. There is nothing that is going to get him out of this. Anyone that could do all of the horrible things that were done to poor Teresa is an evil monster. Avery can cry conspirancy all he wants. It isn't even the same LE office that has handled this crime. I think it is rather funny that the money he won from the state is all going into his big wig attorney's pockets and not in his. I just hope and pray that he gets the death penalty if that state has it.
 
I probably do not hold a popular opinion on this one, but I am not sold on Avery's guilt. I know it is bad that he pointed a gun at the sheriff's wife but he was punished for that. 6 of the 18 years he spent in prison were for that crime. He spent 12 years in prison for a rape he did not commit. It just seems to me that the sheriff's dept in the area were out to get him for pointing that gun. I am not saying pointing the gun was right. It wasn't. And I am not saying that him breaking into the bar/restaurant was OK. It also wasn't. But stealing $14, 2 six packs and some sandwiches does not a killer make. It just seems awfully convenient to me. He gets out of prison after spending 12 years for a crime he did not commit (6 were for a crime he DID commit). Suddenly, he murders a woman on the 3rd time she visits his property? Why not on the 1st or 2nd time she visited? He knows all about the inside of the prison system and how much it sucks. Why would he risk a rape and murder, never mind supposedly drawing his teenage nephew into the mix=a witness, after all that? And then, after seeing how the inside justice system works, he is dumb enough to leave her car hidden on his property, the license plates crumpled and discarded in another vehicle on his property, blood all over the place and evidence burned and left in fire pits and bins on his property? All this when he knows people knew he had an appt with the photographer and his place would be one of the first places they would look? If I didn't take into account how the sheriff's dept has been out to get him all these years, the evidence would look pretty damning to Avery. But it just seems so very convenient to me that all this "evidence" was found on the property. I am not saying that I believe her to be alive, because I don't. But I wouldn't put it past authorities to have found her body elsewhere and planted the other evidence. Avery had a (to me) believable explanation for where he got the cut on his hand and why there would be his blood in front of his washer and dryer. It isn't like they found HER blood by his washer/dryer. And as for the handcuffs and leg irons, I do think the leg irons are strange but there are many non-murderers who are into S&M. I know plenty of people who like to experiment with handcuffs and blindfolds. And the teenage nephew? I don't buy that either. My theories on him are 1) Perhaps he was the person who actually raped and murdered her or 2) the dept. found a kid who was easy to break to finally get their man. Kids are notoriously easy to break down. Coming to mind immediately are the sexual molestation charges from that daycare all those years ago (Rhode Island or Connecticut??) when the whole family ended up imprisoned on what turns out to be charges invented and impressed upon children's minds by cops.
 
I know plenty of people considered by others to be fat and ugly and slobbish who are nice people with good hearts, nevertheless. I know women who are considered attractive by mainstream standards who are in relationships with men who are not as physically up to par as they may be. Still, the insults are uncalled for.


Even if she had been loose as a goose she sure wouldn't have had anything to do with a fat ugly slob like Steve Avery or his pukey nephew. I don't think any jury could be convinced of that. They both make me want to puke just looking at them.
 
Tereasa was a classy lady......(PERIOD)

The reason he did this was because he thought he could get away with it. The man is an imbicile...stupid, as is the nephew. Mean and unfeeling, etc.

The whole family is a mess..

You think that many LE set him up and the killer is still on the loose?
 
Not saying Teresa was anything but classy. I am sure she showed up at the car lot to take pictures and tried to be on her way. I am just not sure that she was murdered on the property. Avery would have to be *extremely* dense to have left that much evidence lying about the property and I just find it hard to believe that he would be that dumb after knowing how the system works and knowing that the dept. "had it out for him", *even* if that was only true in his own mind. I feel that Teresa was possibly killed off the property by another person. I think that the dept got all the info about where she was supposed to be that day and went looking for her. Avery's lot was supposed to be her last stop that day. I think it is possible, though not likely, that someone else killed her and the police found her body (along the road perhaps) and actually planted evidence all around the Avery property. My other theory is that the nephew actually killed her and either disposed of the body himself or freaked out and told his uncle who has helped him cover it up. If the latter is true, it is absolutely horrendous but it isn't the same as Avery having raped, killed, burned Teresa. I think either Avery got sucked into his nephew's predicament or the nephew got drug into the dept and beaten down via threats and sleep deprivation by the police. Many adults have been broken in such a way and a kid is even more prone to fall under threat. As far as Avery's family goes, they may all be an unsavory lot. But then, if you were to judge me based on the actions of my 2 youngest siblings, you would think me a loser too.



1000Sparks said:
Tereasa was a classy lady......(PERIOD)

The reason he did this was because he thought he could get away with it. The man is an imbicile...stupid, as is the nephew. Mean and unfeeling, etc.

The whole family is a mess..

You think that many LE set him up and the killer is still on the loose?
 
Forgot to add that I do not think that the entire LE dept set him up. I think there are 1 or 2 holdovers from the old days who planted evidence or forced the kid to make stories up. I think the other LE actually believe the evidence they found and have no part in anything dishonest.
1000Sparks said:
Tereasa was a classy lady......(PERIOD)

The reason he did this was because he thought he could get away with it. The man is an imbicile...stupid, as is the nephew. Mean and unfeeling, etc.

The whole family is a mess..

You think that many LE set him up and the killer is still on the loose?
 
Your theories are completely based on your feelings and emotions and not upon any facts in this case. Your comments and theories on this case are so flawed, unsupported and "out there" that I hardly know where to begin. I could "feel" that aliens actually abducted her and murdered her or maybe George Bush too but it would not make it true. Why would you want to leave reality so far behind and go so far out on a limb for a person like Steven Avery but yet so quick to believe something so rotten about LE who put their lives on the line every day to protect and serve?


Unless LE had a vial of Avery's sweat on hand and planted it on Halbach's car Avery did it. His DNA was found on Halbach's car. Halbach's blood was found in an outbuilding on the property I believe. Do you believe that LE left that there too? The perponderance of evidence that points to Avery is pretty overwhelming. Usually when someone commits a crime like this it is not their first rape or murder. And don't forget the cute little incident with torturing the cat. This is a sick person. He probably got away with alot more. The reason these types kill is exactly because they do not want to go back to prison. This shuts the victim up real good.

I find it interesting that you so minimized his past criminal record. Pointing a gun at someone and threatening them is no small matter. The facts of this case suggest that Avery backed off when he saw a small child in the car with the deputy's wife. What was Avery planning? Oftentimes when one gets away with a multitude of smaller crimes it emboldens them to go on to bigger things.

Did LE also burn Teresa's body on the property in Avery's burn barrels? Without anyone noticing? More than one family lives on that propery and a business is run there but yet cops ran around dumping her body and possessions in a couple of burn barrels and started a big ol stinky bonfire? And then they got a big ol tow truck and towed her car onto the Avery property and put her car into a compacting machine and no one noticed that either? In the meantime they planted blood evidence and a key in Avery's trailer and left bullets and blood evidence in one of the outbuildings too.

And after finding her body all tortured and raped like that they just said "Hey, let's frame that Avery guy. I don't like him and he is fat and smelly." So they framed Avery (and believe me, to pull off something this big more than one cop at the top had to be involved) and they left the real perpetrator, a sick twisted rapist, sadist and murderer to wander the streets free just so that they could stick it to poor Steven? Leaving their own family's vunerable to this sicko? Does that make sense to you?

If you go back and read this forum from the beginning you will find that there is a history of sexual abuse in this family and Steven is not the only Avery with a sexual assault record.

You have to really want to believe Avery innocent for some reason to reach that far. Some people really ARE that stupid. Some people really ARE that evil. And for some the compulsion to do something like this is so great that any thought of getting caught is overshadowed by the thrill of the crime. If you think about it, every person that is caught committing a crime more than once is stupid. And there must be alot of stupid people out there as our prison system is overwhelmed with them all. Either that or there are alot of them being "set-up" by evil LE. Why do you think that child molestors offend again and again and again?

You can present any theory that you want to pull out of thin air but there is NO evidence that this was the case. And why on God's green earth would the nephew confess to this? And don't tell me they pulled his fingernails out. The confession was videotaped. So I guess that blows your theory out of the window that he was beaten until he confessed in vivid detail. They not only beat him until he said "UNCLE!" but they beat him till he embellished the story so much that he included all the little details of the rape and torture and disposal. "Many adults are broken down this way"? Are you watching too much TV? Do you actually believe that there is a vast number of cops out there beating confessions out of people? Really?

You are entitled to your opinion but they don't sell enough tin foil to cover this theory :)

Sherlockmom

>Not saying Teresa was anything but classy. I am sure she showed up at the car lot to take pictures and tried to be on her way. I am just not sure that she was murdered on the property. Avery would have to be *extremely* dense to have left that much evidence lying about the property and I just find it hard to believe that he would be that dumb after knowing how the system works and knowing that the dept. "had it out for him", *even* if that was only true in his own mind. I feel that Teresa was possibly killed off the property by another person. I think that the dept got all the info about where she was supposed to be that day and went looking for her. Avery's lot was supposed to be her last stop that day. I think it is possible, though not likely, that someone else killed her and the police found her body (along the road perhaps) and actually planted evidence all around the Avery property. My other theory is that the nephew actually killed her and either disposed of the body himself or freaked out and told his uncle who has helped him cover it up. If the latter is true, it is absolutely horrendous but it isn't the same as Avery having raped, killed, burned Teresa. I think either Avery got sucked into his nephew's predicament or the nephew got drug into the dept and beaten down via threats and sleep deprivation by the police. Many adults have been broken in such a way and a kid is even more prone to fall under threat. As far as Avery's family goes, they may all be an unsavory lot. But then, if you were to judge me based on the actions of my 2 youngest siblings, you would think me a loser too.
 
OK I think we have established that you have your opinion and I have mine. You are not going to sway me to your beliefs by YELLING at me and I really don't have any desire to try to convince you of how I believe either. You greatly crossed the line of respect by telling me how ridiculous you "feel" my opinion to be. I believe the rules in this forum forbid bashing the poster. You must assume me to be a moron if you think I have not read this forum on this subject. Not only have I read this forum but I have done extensive research on Steven Avery's background and history on my own. Furthermore, this is a forum for discussing the title of the thread. It is not a place where everyone is pre-screened to agree with everyone else. Having an educated opinion that happens to differ with yours does not make me the enemy. So please, rethink the tone of your posts......and try to find some more tinfoil.






Sherlockmom said:
Your theories are completely based on your feelings and emotions and not upon any facts in this case. Your comments and theories on this case are so flawed, unsupported and "out there" that I hardly know where to begin. I could "feel" that aliens actually abducted her and murdered her or maybe George Bush too but it would not make it true. Why would you want to leave reality so far behind and go so far out on a limb for a person like Steven Avery but yet so quick to believe something so rotten about LE who put their lives on the line every day to protect and serve?


Unless LE had a vial of Avery's sweat on hand and planted it on Halbach's car Avery did it. His DNA was found on Halbach's car. Halbach's blood was found in an outbuilding on the property I believe. Do you believe that LE left that there too? The perponderance of evidence that points to Avery is pretty overwhelming. Usually when someone commits a crime like this it is not their first rape or murder. And don't forget the cute little incident with torturing the cat. This is a sick person. He probably got away with alot more. The reason these types kill is exactly because they do not want to go back to prison. This shuts the victim up real good.

I find it interesting that you so minimized his past criminal record. Pointing a gun at someone and threatening them is no small matter. The facts of this case suggest that Avery backed off when he saw a small child in the car with the deputy's wife. What was Avery planning? Oftentimes when one gets away with a multitude of smaller crimes it emboldens them to go on to bigger things.

Did LE also burn Teresa's body on the property in Avery's burn barrels? Without anyone noticing? More than one family lives on that propery and a business is run there but yet cops ran around dumping her body and possessions in a couple of burn barrels and started a big ol stinky bonfire? And then they got a big ol tow truck and towed her car onto the Avery property and put her car into a compacting machine and no one noticed that either? In the meantime they planted blood evidence and a key in Avery's trailer and left bullets and blood evidence in one of the outbuildings too.

And after finding her body all tortured and raped like that they just said "Hey, let's frame that Avery guy. I don't like him and he is fat and smelly." So they framed Avery (and believe me, to pull off something this big more than one cop at the top had to be involved) and they left the real perpetrator, a sick twisted rapist, sadist and murderer to wander the streets free just so that they could stick it to poor Steven? Leaving their own family's vunerable to this sicko? Does that make sense to you?

If you go back and read this forum from the beginning you will find that there is a history of sexual abuse in this family and Steven is not the only Avery with a sexual assault record.

You have to really want to believe Avery innocent for some reason to reach that far. Some people really ARE that stupid. Some people really ARE that evil. And for some the compulsion to do something like this is so great that any thought of getting caught is overshadowed by the thrill of the crime. If you think about it, every person that is caught committing a crime more than once is stupid. And there must be alot of stupid people out there as our prison system is overwhelmed with them all. Either that or there are alot of them being "set-up" by evil LE. Why do you think that child molestors offend again and again and again?

You can present any theory that you want to pull out of thin air but there is NO evidence that this was the case. And why on God's green earth would the nephew confess to this? And don't tell me they pulled his fingernails out. The confession was videotaped. So I guess that blows your theory out of the window that he was beaten until he confessed in vivid detail. They not only beat him until he said "UNCLE!" but they beat him till he embellished the story so much that he included all the little details of the rape and torture and disposal. "Many adults are broken down this way"? Are you watching too much TV? Do you actually believe that there is a vast number of cops out there beating confessions out of people? Really?

You are entitled to your opinion but they don't sell enough tin foil to cover this theory :)

Sherlockmom

>Not saying Teresa was anything but classy. I am sure she showed up at the car lot to take pictures and tried to be on her way. I am just not sure that she was murdered on the property. Avery would have to be *extremely* dense to have left that much evidence lying about the property and I just find it hard to believe that he would be that dumb after knowing how the system works and knowing that the dept. "had it out for him", *even* if that was only true in his own mind. I feel that Teresa was possibly killed off the property by another person. I think that the dept got all the info about where she was supposed to be that day and went looking for her. Avery's lot was supposed to be her last stop that day. I think it is possible, though not likely, that someone else killed her and the police found her body (along the road perhaps) and actually planted evidence all around the Avery property. My other theory is that the nephew actually killed her and either disposed of the body himself or freaked out and told his uncle who has helped him cover it up. If the latter is true, it is absolutely horrendous but it isn't the same as Avery having raped, killed, burned Teresa. I think either Avery got sucked into his nephew's predicament or the nephew got drug into the dept and beaten down via threats and sleep deprivation by the police. Many adults have been broken in such a way and a kid is even more prone to fall under threat. As far as Avery's family goes, they may all be an unsavory lot. But then, if you were to judge me based on the actions of my 2 youngest siblings, you would think me a loser too.
 
Nobody yelled at you. Whatever gave you that impression? I disagreed with you and pointed out the flawed parts of your reasoning. No one bashed you either. I bashed your theory. While you may object to someone pointing out the flaws in your theory this is what this forum is all about. It is Websleuths not Webfantasy. While throwing around theories is entertaining and we all do it usually we have some kind of logic or facts that help us to push our theories forward. You had none of those.

While you complain that you have been offended and "bashed" you had no problem making some pretty wild and defamatory accusations about the behavior of LE in this case. I think a police officer who worked on this case may be very offended to hear that people were accusing them of planting evidence, beating a confession out of a young man and letting a real murderer go free in order to get even with Steven Avery. I think that's a heck of alot worse than me telling you that your theories are "tin foilesque" or someone criticizing Avery's appearance. Don't you? Or aren't cops quite on the same human level as Avery?

Some people cannot tolerate any criticism of their ideas and immediately think they are being flamed or bashed the moment someone disagrees. This is not bashing this is disagreeing with you and picking apart your theory. On the other hand, I think you did a swell job of bashing LE that handled this case.

Having an educated opinion means exactly that. You presented not one fact that pointed to a LE framing or to Avery's innocence. If that is how we are going to present our arguments we may as well start sharing our dreams. That is not an educated opinion.

I am always eager to hear other people's points of view but it is a big waste of my time when someone throws some kind of fantasy out there that has no basis in fact. Or when someone jumps into a thread that has been ongoing for months without doing the research and reading previous information. It's frustrating for the rest of us. If you had done the research on this case that you claim you have you would have been aware that Dassey's confession was videotaped, viewed by a judge and it was deemed that there was no improprieties there. You also would have been aware of the DNA evidence in this case.

I too have done alot of research into this case and the background of Avery including looking up past cases on the Wisconsin Court System. It is not a big surprise to me that Avery progressed to the point that he did. Were you aware of the cat torture incident? I guess maybe we didn't read the same stuff.

While people on this forum are not required to agree with one another when you hold an opinion that is so far against the norm of the rest and throw out theories from left field with no supporting evidence you should be ready to take some criticism. It's insulting to assume that we should all nod our heads and agree with you or put as much seriousness into your theories as those who have used logic and facts to form theirs.

Sherlockmom

>OK I think we have established that you have your opinion and I have mine. You are not going to sway me to your beliefs by YELLING at me and I really don't have any desire to try to convince you of how I believe either. You greatly crossed the line of respect by telling me how ridiculous you "feel" my opinion to be. I believe the rules in this forum forbid bashing the poster. You must assume me to be a moron if you think I have not read this forum on this subject. Not only have I read this forum but I have done extensive research on Steven Avery's background and history on my own. Furthermore, this is a forum for discussing the title of the thread. It is not a place where everyone is pre-screened to agree with everyone else. Having an educated opinion that happens to differ with yours does not make me the enemy. So please, rethink the tone of your posts......and try to find some more tinfoil.
 
I am done discussing this with you. You have made a lot of unbased assumptions on what I have or have not researched. I don't have time to debate with rude people but that does not change the beliefs I have come to hold in this case. That is all I will be saying to you.


Sherlockmom said:
Nobody yelled at you. Whatever gave you that impression? I disagreed with you and pointed out the flawed parts of your reasoning. No one bashed you either. I bashed your theory. While you may object to someone pointing out the flaws in your theory this is what this forum is all about. It is Websleuths not Webfantasy. While throwing around theories is entertaining and we all do it usually we have some kind of logic or facts that help us to push our theories forward. You had none of those.

While you complain that you have been offended and "bashed" you had no problem making some pretty wild and defamatory accusations about the behavior of LE in this case. I think a police officer who worked on this case may be very offended to hear that people were accusing them of planting evidence, beating a confession out of a young man and letting a real murderer go free in order to get even with Steven Avery. I think that's a heck of alot worse than me telling you that your theories are "tin foilesque" or someone criticizing Avery's appearance. Don't you? Or aren't cops quite on the same human level as Avery?

Some people cannot tolerate any criticism of their ideas and immediately think they are being flamed or bashed the moment someone disagrees. This is not bashing this is disagreeing with you and picking apart your theory. On the other hand, I think you did a swell job of bashing LE that handled this case.

Having an educated opinion means exactly that. You presented not one fact that pointed to a LE framing or to Avery's innocence. If that is how we are going to present our arguments we may as well start sharing our dreams. That is not an educated opinion.

I am always eager to hear other people's points of view but it is a big waste of my time when someone throws some kind of fantasy out there that has no basis in fact. Or when someone jumps into a thread that has been ongoing for months without doing the research and reading previous information. It's frustrating for the rest of us. If you had done the research on this case that you claim you have you would have been aware that Dassey's confession was videotaped, viewed by a judge and it was deemed that there was no improprieties there. You also would have been aware of the DNA evidence in this case.

I too have done alot of research into this case and the background of Avery including looking up past cases on the Wisconsin Court System. It is not a big surprise to me that Avery progressed to the point that he did. Were you aware of the cat torture incident? I guess maybe we didn't read the same stuff.

While people on this forum are not required to agree with one another when you hold an opinion that is so far against the norm of the rest and throw out theories from left field with no supporting evidence you should be ready to take some criticism. It's insulting to assume that we should all nod our heads and agree with you or put as much seriousness into your theories as those who have used logic and facts to form theirs.

Sherlockmom

>OK I think we have established that you have your opinion and I have mine. You are not going to sway me to your beliefs by YELLING at me and I really don't have any desire to try to convince you of how I believe either. You greatly crossed the line of respect by telling me how ridiculous you "feel" my opinion to be. I believe the rules in this forum forbid bashing the poster. You must assume me to be a moron if you think I have not read this forum on this subject. Not only have I read this forum but I have done extensive research on Steven Avery's background and history on my own. Furthermore, this is a forum for discussing the title of the thread. It is not a place where everyone is pre-screened to agree with everyone else. Having an educated opinion that happens to differ with yours does not make me the enemy. So please, rethink the tone of your posts......and try to find some more tinfoil.
 
Sherlockmom said:
...It is Websleuths not Webfantasy. While throwing around theories is entertaining and we all do it usually we have some kind of logic or facts that help us to push our theories forward...
Good post, SM. I am in total agreement with your stance. I think that Steve Avery is where he belongs. This family is very scary. It's sad that this young photographer had to be tortured, raped and murdered, though. Avery really thought that he was home scott-free. He figured that because he was wrongly convicted of one crime that he would never be arrested for another. I feel certain that he thinks that he will beat this rap because of it. All he need is one juror like kidz.
 
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