Woman Dies After Nurse Refuses to do CPR

[georgiagirl]

I can't get over how the dispatcher was begging the caller to help the woman and the caller is like "no, I'm good." Wtf

 

[Ausgirl]

As my own grandmother was recently killed by nursing home neglect, this sort of story hits me hard.

What the hell kind of facility has a policy that requires a 911 call, during which the nurse openly refuses to do nothing to help the patient?

Too angry to comment further. I hope the family has this investigated fully.

 

[Vabrownid1]

I doubt they will be in business much longer!

 

[mysteriew]

Well a hospice wouldn't provide CPR either. I assume the patients signed a waiver or a DNR when they entered that facility.

If the family had been TOLD about this policy or received a written material stating as much they shouldn't have a leg to stand on.

I thought of that. But if there was a DNR they wouldn't have called 911. In that case I believe they call the Doctor then the family. Then in time they call the morgue on record.

 

[mysteriew]

The person wasn't a nurse. I am not sure they have medical training at all. It's hard to do a CPR on the elderly considering their ribs easily brake.
They don't advertise that they have medical staff. In fact it seems the opposite is true.

Yeah they do do CPR on the elderly. As it was explained to me, better a broken rib. If they feel it they are alive, if they aren't alive they won't feel it.

And yeah they do advertise they have medical staff. If you check where I posted above they not only advertise the medical care they give, they advertise their staffing levels and the average amount of time the RN's, LPN's and aides give to the residents. And it says they give excellent medical care along with emotional support.

 

[mysteriew]

I doubt they will be in business much longer!

Yeah I look for it to reopen "under a new name" and with new management.

 

[jjenny]

Yeah they do do CPR on the elderly. As it was explained to me, better a broken rib. If they feel it they are alive, if they aren't alive they won't feel it.
...

Better than what? CPR only works in a small percentage of people. And this was an 87 year old woman.

 

[jjenny]

And by the way, her own family says she wanted to die without intervention.

"SACRAMENTO, Calif. (AP) — An elderly woman who died after a nurse at her elder home refused to provide CPR had chosen to live in a facility without medical staff and wanted to pass away without life-prolonging intervention, her family said Tuesday."
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/calif-woman-dies-after-nurse-refuses-do-cpr

 

[Beyond Belief]

When my 91 year old mom's time comes nobody better be doing cpr on her.

 

[jjenny]

...I hope the family gets down to the bottom of it.

Her family says that's what she wanted. She didn't want intervention. They don't plan to sue either. Which I am sure comes as a shock to many.

 

[SwampMama]

This strike me in many ways, as a first responder and because I am a primary (and sole) caretaker for my 93 year old gram for 2 weeks of each month. She has a DNR order, My Gram is still living at home, getting around, albeit slower and with more aches and pains each day. Her mind is as sharp as ever and she is always cutting up and laughing.

There may come a day when I have to decide to do CPR, call 911 or to allow her to go in peace at home as she wished and not in a hospital with tubes stuck in her. It is her specific wish NOT to be brought back if she has ceased breathing or her heart has stopped.

Back on topic though, I seem to remember that in this story that the patient in question had a DNR paper signed and her family was ok with the decision or refusal to do CPR. Bottom line, it is what the family feels that is important so I hope to find a link about it.

There are many different situations that healthcare workers (nurses, emt, etc) work with in dealing with the elderly, the rapidly declining and the terminally ill. I need to know more of the details before I really form an opinion on it.

One of the most recent medical calls with the fire department that I responded to was an very elderly man with multiple health problems who was dead when we got there and there was really no chance that we would be able to bring him back. Yet we did CPR for 30 minutes and administered drugs and shocks because his wife was there and we felt we had to do everything possible so that she would never worry that we hadn't done enough or just gave up. We followed protocol right down to the last detail. It was really done more for the wife than the patient.

I would never want that for my gram. I do not want her to come back to a life of pain (bruised/cracked ribs) and machine dependency. I would like her to go peacefully at home and not be brought back thru drastic measures to a diminished and painful life.

So I guess my viewpoint on this is greatly colored by my situation with my gram but I completely respect everyone else's viewpoints as well.

 

[LinasK]

When my 91 year old mom's time comes nobody better be doing cpr on her.

And when my 91 year old father passes, they better do CPR on him!!!
And he has told me he wants to be a full code.

 

[LinasK]

This strike me in many ways, as a first responder and because I am a primary (and sole) caretaker for my 93 year old gram for 2 weeks of each month. She has a DNR order, My Gram is still living at home, getting around, albeit slower and with more aches and pains each day. Her mind is as sharp as ever and she is always cutting up and laughing.

There may come a day when I have to decide to do CPR, call 911 or to allow her to go in peace at home as she wished and not in a hospital with tubes stuck in her. It is her specific wish NOT to be brought back if she has ceased breathing or her heart has stopped.

Back on topic though, I seem to remember that in this story that the patient in question had a DNR paper signed and her family was ok with the decision or refusal to do CPR. Bottom line, it is what the family feels that is important so I hope to find a link about it.

There are many different situations that healthcare workers (nurses, emt, etc) work with in dealing with the elderly, the rapidly declining and the terminally ill. I need to know more of the details before I really form an opinion on it.

One of the most recent medical calls with the fire department that I responded to was an very elderly man with multiple health problems who was dead when we got there and there was really no chance that we would be able to bring him back. Yet we did CPR for 30 minutes and administered drugs and shocks because his wife was there and we felt we had to do everything possible so that she would never worry that we hadn't done enough or just gave up. We followed protocol right down to the last detail. It was really done more for the wife than the patient.

I would never want that for my gram. I do not want her to come back to a life of pain (bruised/cracked ribs) and machine dependency. I would like her to go peacefully at home and not be brought back thru drastic measures to a diminished and painful life.

So I guess my viewpoint on this is greatly colored by my situation with my gram but I completely respect everyone else's viewpoints as well.

A DNR is one thing, but the "nurse" stated that it was facility policy. I find that incredulous that a whole facility policy is DNR. And as was previously asked, then why bother calling 911???

 

[jjenny]

And when my 91 year old father passes, they better do CPR on him!!!
And he has told me he wants to be a full code.

And this woman's wishes, according to her family, was to not have intervention.
So her wishes were followed. The facility she was in presumably knew her wishes more than a 911 dispatcher-who obviously had no clue what this woman wanted.

 

[jjenny]

A DNR is one thing, but the "nurse" stated that it was facility policy. I find that incredulous that a whole facility policy is DNR. And as was previously asked, then why bother calling 911???

I don't find it incredulous at all. Many elderly want do die without some medical procedures performed on them until the bitter end. As long as residents know the policy, I don't have a problem with it whatsoever.

 

[LinasK]

I don't find it incredulous at all. Many elderly want do die without some medical procedures performed on them until the bitter end. As long as residents know the policy, I don't have a problem with it whatsoever.

In 13 years working in SNF's, assisted living, hospitals, and home health, I have yet to come across a facility whose whole policy is DNR. Usually it is a case-by-case basis.

 

[LinasK]

And this woman's wishes, according to her family, was to not have intervention.
So her wishes were followed. The facility she was in presumably knew her wishes more than a 911 dispatcher-who obviously had no clue what this woman wanted.

I don't fault the 911 dispatcher, she was doing her job. If this woman truly had a DNR, why was 911 called to begin with? It was useless and stressful for the dispatcher. What was the point???

 

[STEADFAST]

The family's statement to the Associated Press absolving an elder care home of blame came less than 1 ½ hours before the company issued a statement saying the employee's failure to heed a 911 dispatcher's was the result of a misunderstanding of the company's emergency medical practices.

Read more: http://www.sfgate.com/news/medical/...ted-no-intervention-4326960.php#ixzz2MjL0AWC7
​

According to this article, the woman did not have a DNR but, per her family, she did not want to be resuscitated in this kind of instance. So, I guess we'll never know for sure what her wishes truly were. Personally, I don't expect to want to be pounded on and brought back to an unhealthy life at 87, but we'll have to wait and see!

There also seems to be some question about whether the lady on the phone was really a nurse or not.

 

[LinasK]

According to this article, the woman did not have a DNR but, per her family, she did not want to be resuscitated in this kind of instance. So, I guess we'll never know for sure what her wishes truly were. Personally, I don't expect to want to be pounded on and brought back to an unhealthy life at 87, but we'll have to wait and see!

There also seems to be some question about whether the lady on the phone was really a nurse or not.

If she did not have a DNR/No Code in writing, I would fully expect the facility to perform CPR. This is a written legal document.

 

[LinasK]

87 does NOT equal unhealthy age in general. My father is 91, has survived 3 heart attacks, pneumonia, and diabetes. He's outlived my mother- at 83, still travels frequently, works by choice, lives in his own house, is mentally lucid, and is going strong. Age is no indicator of longevity!!!