Would the Ramseys have left the house if JonBenet was never found?

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Haven't been on this thread for a while. A great thread, and good way to look at the situation from a different perspective. What it made me think of, is that if they had NOT written the ridiculous ransom note, and taken the body outside of the home and dumped it somewhere . . . ( which I understand they could just not do), they might actually have gotten away with it. Well they got away with it anyway, but it then would have appeared like an actual kidnapping. No kidnapper threatens to take a child, then kills the child and leaves it in the home. Makes no sense.

celticthyme,
You hit the nail on the head, this is what IDI's always fail to explain. If its a kidnapping why leave the body in the wine-cellar, when the intruder must leave the house, why not take the body with him, its what he came for?

John's readyness to fly interstate asap tells you everything you need to know. Burke was at Fleet White's, JonBenet was in the wine-cellar, and John and Patsy had important business to conduct elsewhere. Bye Bye Burke, Bye Bye JonBenet. What kind of people behave like that?

Plan A was to hide the body fake an abduction, if that worked then the next part was to flee interstate by plane e.g. get out of the house and the state!

The clever part was whoever redressed JonBenet IMO that allowed the Ramsey's to distance themselves from the crime-scene. Patently JonBenet's naked body, visibly sexually assaulted, left anywhere in the house would leave them as prime suspects.



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Had they hidden the body outside somewhere, they'd still have the rest of the faux kidnapping to explain- the note in Patsy's handwriting, the lack of evidence of an intruder anywhere in the crime scene (or house for that matter). Their fibers would still be on the body, and they'd have a body likely eaten by animals, insects, and decomposing by the time she was found. NO WAY would they have done this, NO WAY. I don't care how they distanced themselves. I don't care that they were able to carry out the staging. They wouldn't have done this to their daughter.
 
It's interesting that this thread is about something that might have happened in the Lisa Irwin case. Her parents never spent another night in their house, just like the Ramseys. Cadaver dogs got a hit in the house so it's possible that Lisa's body could be on the property somewhere. If Lisa's body is found there, I bet the parent(s) will be arrested within 24 hours.
 
Hello everyone, I used to be an IDI.
After reading all the articles archived, interviews, transcripts, depositions and documents related to this murder, I cannot fathom how people can still believe in the IDI theory.
 
Hello everyone, I used to be an IDI.
After reading all the articles archived, interviews, transcripts, depositions and documents related to this murder, I cannot fathom how people can still believe in the IDI theory.

eve314,
Thats the power of the media and uncritical thinking. The IDI theory is flawed from the start with JonBenet being left in the wine-cellar, and her sexual assault being hidden beneath her clothing.

Once you see through the IDI spin all sorts of interesting things start to appear e.g. barbie doll. It was always there, even referenced in the interviews, but many missed it.

Just what was a pink barbie nightgown and barbie doll doing discarded in a suburban wine-cellar, answers on a postcard?

P.S. a clue: Barbie.





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Hello everyone, I used to be an IDI.
After reading all the articles archived, interviews, transcripts, depositions and documents related to this murder, I cannot fathom how people can still believe in the IDI theory.

That's all it takes- some thorough research and common sense. And I also cannot fathom how people do not see through the Rs and their spin.
 
I've always wondered if John never found JonBenet's body, would they have just up and left the house leaving JonBenet in the basement? The kidnappers said they'd call between 8 and 10 am, John found JonBenet at 1pm. This is what makes me think the Ramseys had something to do with it, John couldnt take the agony and waiting around anymore because he knew JonBenet was in the basement, thats why he headed straight down there. He wanted to "find" JonBenet and get it over with. After JonBenet was found & after the Ramseys morned over her they just up and left, Patsy vowed never to come back to that house. They didnt even make sure their daughter got to the morgue. If Patsy was so worried about her baby, she would have stayed right in that house until they took her baby to the morgue. They left her behind like she was an old couch. If Linda never told John to search the house, would the Ramsey have just left JonBenet for someone else to find?

I'm not sure what they were going to do with regards to JBR's body. I can't image John and Patsy would actually believe that going to another state would protect them if the Boulder authorities decided to charge them. Just moving to another state will not protect you if you have committed a crime. That state would just extradite you; no sweat.

So, I am not sure what their Great Game Plan was. At this point, I am thinking that they intended for the body to be found, and that they would squeeze out the appropriate number of tears and then be allowed to leave the state to privately mourn. I think it's possible that John and Pat really thought that they were this important. Like they thought that they had the status of a Kennedy. They assumed that everyone would feel sorry for them, and leave them alone.

I don't think their ransom set-up and the staging was terribly clever or showed intelligence. I think they lucked out with a remarkably dumb group of police and a very cowardly DA.
 
Hello everyone, I used to be an IDI.
After reading all the articles archived, interviews, transcripts, depositions and documents related to this murder, I cannot fathom how people can still believe in the IDI theory.

Hi, eve. Boy, does THAT sound familiar!
 
I don't think their ransom set-up and the staging was terribly clever or showed intelligence. I think they lucked out with a remarkably dumb group of police and a very cowardly DA.

There's a whole thread devoted to that very issue, Alix. I'll see if I can find it for you.
 
I'm not sure what they were going to do with regards to JBR's body. I can't image John and Patsy would actually believe that going to another state would protect them if the Boulder authorities decided to charge them. Just moving to another state will not protect you if you have committed a crime. That state would just extradite you; no sweat.

So, I am not sure what their Great Game Plan was. At this point, I am thinking that they intended for the body to be found, and that they would squeeze out the appropriate number of tears and then be allowed to leave the state to privately mourn. I think it's possible that John and Pat really thought that they were this important. Like they thought that they had the status of a Kennedy. They assumed that everyone would feel sorry for them, and leave them alone.

I don't think their ransom set-up and the staging was terribly clever or showed intelligence. I think they lucked out with a remarkably dumb group of police and a very cowardly DA.

Alix,
Just moving to another state will not protect you if you have committed a crime. That state would just extradite you; no sweat.
Sure, but fleeing to Atlanta was only a detour enroute to some country with no extradition policy or even doing a Lord Lucan and simply vanishing off the face of the earth.

So, I am not sure what their Great Game Plan was. At this point, I am thinking that they intended for the body to be found, and that they would squeeze out the appropriate number of tears and then be allowed to leave the state to privately mourn.
Personally I reckon their Plan A rested on JonBenet not being discovered. Things turned out differently than they expected and John found JonBenet.

Here is my rationale. If the R's had wanted JonBenet to be discovered they would not have wrapped her in a blanket and hidden her away in the wine-cellar.

What might they have done: well they might have dressed her in a pink barbie nightgown and left her, having been visibly sexually assaulted, in her bed with her barbie doll lying close by. Then phoned 911 to report a homicide.

Someone realized the latter strategy would immediately invoke the standard homicide procedures and lead directly to their arrest. So they amended the prior staging or actual primary crime-scene, removed JonBenet to the wine-cellar and settled upon an abduction strategy, what I refer to as Plan A.

Now Plan A mostly worked, crucial crime-scene evidence was contaminated or removed, the R's gained time to phone friends. Now John finds JonBenet at approximately 1 PM, then shortly later at 1:40 PM he is overheard instructing his pilot to prepare for a flight to Atlanta. Any connection?

John probably took the decision to find JonBenet during his missing period. Its even possible that he moved JonBenet from another location to the wine-cellar so to find her, explaining why Fleet White never noticed JonBenet earlier that morning.

John realized the police were not going to go away, the Ransom Note time of 10 AM had come and gone , and it was possible the abduction ruse might be seen through. So he thought I'll find JonBenet then work out some way to flee Colorado.


I don't think their ransom set-up and the staging was terribly clever or showed intelligence. I think they lucked out with a remarkably dumb group of police and a very cowardly DA.
I reckon it was, patently it was not rocket science, but it worked, they gained time to rally and plan forward. John Ramsey then formulated Plan B employing Lou Smit to promote the predatory pedophile intruder theory, and the rest is history.

So under a lot of stress John Ramsey pragmatically executed Plan A, then when that failed, he invented Plan B, a lot of what we think of as Patsy's histrionics and Kennedyesque behaviour is her playing her part in Plan B. This will be her idea of how a victim's mother should behave.


Since Patsy played her part in all of this. I reckon she would have left with John for Atlanta. Common sense should suggest that this was their Great Game Plan. Evade arrest and leave Colorado ASAP.

Would they have picked Burke up from Fleet White's house, maybe, my money would be on them going straight to the airport to fly to Atlanta. As far as they knew they had only one opportunity to flee Coloroda, and stopping to pick Burke up might compromise that, since Fleet White with his suspicions might pick up the phone and notify the authorities?

So back to Plan A. If the police had left the R's house, lets say some time after 10 AM, to search locally. Then John and Patsy would have instructed their pilot to get ready to fly to Atlanta. Leaving JonBenet and Burke behind. John and Patsy's rationale was simple if we dont get arrested we'll flee Colorada ASAP.


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I can understand the JR and PR wanting Burke out of the house. It was a crazy chaotic scene and not at all healthy for him to be home.

If my daughter was found dead, I'd move too-into the police station. There's no way that I would leave the area. The police would think that I was the biggest PITA ever because I would hound them night and day until they found the person who hurt my baby.

BTW, I still and will always think that Burke is somehow involved. It is the only thing that makes sense for his parents coming together for a cover up. JMHO
 
I've done the research , I've read the books I've listened to both sides. I believe the Ramseys ,they did not kill JonBenet , imo.
If JPR's body had not been found , I don't believe they would have left the house, we will never know of course.
In times of great trauma such as a child's murder or chilld missing you don't know how you will react until it happens to you, for that reason I will not judge their actions.
 
I've done the research , I've read the books I've listened to both sides. I believe the Ramseys ,they did not kill JonBenet , imo.
If JPR's body had not been found , I don't believe they would have left the house, we will never know of course.
In times of great trauma such as a child's murder or chilld missing you don't know how you will react until it happens to you, for that reason I will not judge their actions.

FairM,

This is not a theology debate. John Ramsey did make a phone call eliciting a flight to Atlanta, so it is fact not a matter of belief.



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FairM,

This is not a theology debate. John Ramsey did make a phone call eliciting a flight to Atlanta, so it is fact not a matter of belief.



.

So? that was after the body was found - the question asked in this thread was "would the Ramseys have left the house if the body had not been found"

theology? what are you talking about? I was giving my opinion on the question asked.
 
So? that was after the body was found - the question asked in this thread was "would the Ramseys have left the house if the body had not been found"

theology? what are you talking about? I was giving my opinion on the question asked.

FairM,
You should just ignore me, I'm having a bad hair day. Its also Sunday, so when I see the word belief I become irrational.

And of course my opinion is that the R's intended to leave JonBenet lying in the wine-cellar and fly away to Atlanta.

Otherwise why bother hiding her in the wine-cellar in the first place?
 
I guess in such such a situation I'd leave town only for two strong reasons,
huge fear for my life and family or guilt.

now they didn't fear those kidnappers so much otherwise they wouldn't have called LE and their friends over right away(the note said clearly JB would be beheaded if they do so) and wouldn't have sent Burke unprotected to the Whites or?
 
I guess in such such a situation I'd leave town only for two strong reasons,
huge fear for my life and family or guilt.

now they didn't fear those kidnappers so much otherwise they wouldn't have called LE and their friends over right away(the note said clearly JB would be beheaded if they do so) and wouldn't have sent Burke unprotected to the Whites or?

There was no fear because there was no kidnapper. No parent of a kidnapped child lets their remaining children out of their right for a moment.
I think any parent finding a legitimate RN would still call police. But call in all their friends as well as victim's advocates, clergy, etc.? Within MINUTES of finding an RN that says your kid will be killed if you call anyone? NO WAY.
Police can put a trace on your phone line without coming to your house anyway. But the note said the house was being watched. How many cars, including police cars, came to the house that morning?
Let's face it, they were not worried about anyone watching the house or monitoring them in any way.
 
But call in all their friends as well as victim's advocates, clergy, etc.?

this always was a huge red flag for me and it bothers me more and more each time I think of it.I am kinda okay with them calling police,maybe not something I would have done BEFORE sitting down for 5 min and THINKING about it (he was a CEO,he could have called over other people as well/private investigators,etc without any kidnappers noticing it) but let's say calling the cops even if the note was telling not to is not something that screams guilt.okay.

but calling over the friends,the priest.....never got it.never.not only was it stupid for so many different reasons mentioned here over and over again BUT the more I think about it the more I come to the conclusion it wasn't done for moral/spiritual support BUT it starts to sound to me like pure attention seeking.

it wasn't about JB being gone or kidnapped or whatever,it was about "I am the victim,MY kid is gone,I am suffering,I need to be the center of attention now,I am the one needing attention and support...." ,etc....

first I thought this idea was maybe JR's ,using the friends as a tampon between them and the cops......now I am starting to consider other possibilities like the one above as well......

this murder and its elements(staging,note,every strange detail about it),JB's pageants,JB's funeral,all the TV appearances,the LE interviews........all have drama and attention seeking written all over it......maybe not a man's signature after all?:waitasec:
 
eve314 said:
Hello everyone, I used to be an IDI.
After reading all the articles archived, interviews, transcripts, depositions and documents related to this murder, I cannot fathom how people can still believe in the IDI theory.

I can, eve314. But there's really no tactful way for me to say it!
 

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