Wrongful Death Suit filed Nov. 13, 2013 in California, #2

[K_Z]

MNT, I have never cared about how Dina can afford her defense. To be clear, the insurance discussion is not about how Dina can afford her defense. The discussion is about how much control the insurance company may have in the suit.

Respectfully snipped.

Well stated, Lash, thank you. DS, IMO, is the most likely of the 3 defendants to be able to afford her own defense-- and I don't think anyone here has ever questioned that. AS and NR appear to have more modest means (of their own), and we will have to wait and see if they file case management statements and list an insurance company.

The interest in the issue of the liability policies that do, or don't, exist, have to do with how the case may proceed and conclude. Especially with the disparate level of resources between the 3. IMO.

 

[AZlawyer]

Just assuming here for a minute Dina is covered by such an insurance policy. Assume she has a $50 million policy. How much of a difference do you think this would make in her defense strategy and/or representation? I'm unsure how the policy would read. The insurance company may require their policyholder to use a particular firm. I personally believe this would make a huge difference in the money being spent if it is not coming directly out of Dina's pocket. As well, I think it would play a large role in any settlement discussions.

Dina is considered wealthy. I would not be surprised if she had this coverage. Any good insurance agent would recommend it to their wealthy clients. However, I do not think Nina or Adam are as wealthy as Dina. Sure Adam probably has Jonah's support, but I think it is likely these two did not take out an excess policy. Maybe this is the reason the defense strategies appear to be so different between the 3 defendants? Possibly a reason the 3 seem to not be coordinating their defense. Nina and Adam, more Nina are using their pocket money. Just thinking out loud.

AZlawyer, if you're reading this thread, does this logic sound feasible? Am I interpreting the insurance question from the case management statement correctly? TIA

I seriously doubt her insurance policy covers damages for intentional killing, although it might cover legal costs to defend a claim of intentional killing that she denied--or a claim of intentional killing that she said was accidental, but that doesn't apply here. I also doubt she has a $50 million policy. $1 million or so is all most people need if they are fairly wealthy but not super-rich.

An insurance company that is covering fees but not any settlement payment would not have much control over settlement discussions. The insurance company might have picked the law firm, though. Also, there may be a cap on fees that is different from the cap on damages (e.g., she might have a $1 million policy that only covers $200,000 in fees and costs).

Just thinking why in hell would someone think/want they would need/take this additional policy out???

It is a really good idea to have an umbrella policy if you have assets that might encourage people to think you would be a good target for a lawsuit.

 

[*Lash*]

Thank you, AZlawyer

I agree, Dina most likely does not have a 50mil policy. If a policy exists it is probably 10mil or under.

The suit is alleging Dina intentionally killed Rebecca. I understand now the policy would only cover negligent bodily injury. Therefore the insurance company would not be responsible for any settlement payment unless for some remarkable reason the suit changes to negligence instead of intentional.

It all depends on what type of policy Dina purchased regarding whether or not her legal costs are being paid by the insurance company. If she has coverage for legal costs, there is almost certainly a coverage limit to those costs. As well, the ins co most likely would choose the defense counsel. Although I believe Dina would still have the right to add to her defense and include her own personal attorneys.

 

[*Lash*]

Just thinking why in hell would someone think/want they would need/take this additional policy out???

You don't have to be wealthy to purchase or need an extra liability policy. The liability coverage in your basic auto or homeowners policy can easily be exhausted by just one claim. Bodily injury claims can add up quickly and one claim could continue for years. Easily exceeding your policy limits. Even property damage claims can be costly. Especially if you're at fault in an auto accident wherein you hit and total a brand new limited edition $75,000 Mercedes or you're at fault and 4 vehicles are totaled. Umbrella policies can be very helpful. Increasing your property damage coverage is a good idea too.

 

[bourne]

I seriously doubt her insurance policy covers damages for intentional killing, although it might cover legal costs to defend a claim of intentional killing that she denied--or a claim of intentional killing that she said was accidental, but that doesn't apply here. I also doubt she has a $50 million policy. $1 million or so is all most people need if they are fairly wealthy but not super-rich.

An insurance company that is covering fees but not any settlement payment would not have much control over settlement discussions. The insurance company might have picked the law firm, though. Also, there may be a cap on fees that is different from the cap on damages (e.g., she might have a $1 million policy that only covers $200,000 in fees and costs).



It is a really good idea to have an umbrella policy if you have assets that might encourage people to think you would be a good target for a lawsuit.

I agree. I cannot imagine Dina or anyone for that matter (perhaps a nitwit) would ever dole out money for an insurance policy which dictates how she defends herself in a lawsuit, especially one pertaining to wrongful death.

Screecher, an umbrella policy is definitely helpful as it covers more liability than a generic policy. However, why someone would feel they need one, I think, depends on three factors: a) their belief that they have more than 50% chance of causing an event to happen that will cost them an arm & a leg in liabilities; b) their belief that someone will sue them for an arm & a leg because they have some money; and c) they have the money to pay for such a policy.

I don't think it's unlikely Dina has a $50M policy. Why not? If she/Jonah has money to pay for it, why not? Like someone said, it's well worth it.

 

[*Lash*]

A personal umbrella policy is not as costly as some might think. The premium for a 1 million policy could cost $200. a year. The premium depends on an applicants past claims, where you live, number of properties owned, number of assets, your profession, etc...The higher the risk for liability, the more the policy will cost.

The cost of umbrella insurance can range from $200 per year on the low end to over $1,000 for a high limit, such as $10 million worth of umbrella liability coverage. How can you determine your costs?

The first step is to assess your net worth. Determine the value of your assets, including liquid assets, investments, retirement funds, properties and annual income. You may need to consult an investment advisor or attorney.

Next, review both your risks and whether you may be a “target” for liability lawsuits. If you are a high profile person or have considerable assets that an attorney will find inviting when defending a client, you want to factor this into your costs.

Finally, choose an amount of coverage that can protect you from potential lawsuits that could threaten your savings and standard of living. By many recommendations, the coverage amount should be at least equal to your net worth, but that may just be a starting point for you. A report by ACE Private Risk Services, for example, pointed out that judgments in severe cases have run $14 million to $49 million.

https://www.trustedchoice.com/umbrella-insurance/coverage-rate-cost/

SCENARIOS WHERE AN UMBRELLA POLICY MAKES SENSE

http://www.financialsamurai.com/how-does-an-umbrella-policy-work-and-how-much-does-it-cost/

 

[*Lash*]

:newyear:Merry Christmas and happy holidays to each of you! :christmastree:

 

[bourne]

A personal umbrella policy is not as costly as some might think. The premium for a 1 million policy could cost $200. a year. The premium depends on an applicants past claims, where you live, number of properties owned, number of assets, your profession, etc...The higher the risk for liability, the more the policy will cost.

If it's so inexpensive, then why did you doubt Dina would have a $50M policy?

 

[LuckyLucy2]

^ And why wouldn't you think she had a $100M or $500M policy? Or heck, even a Billion $ policy, since we are just speculating?

 

[Betty P]

:newyear:merry christmas and happy holidays to each of you! :christmastree:

MERRY CHRISTMAS TO YOU AND EVERYONE! :christmastree:

 

[K_Z]

Case management statement from Adam Shacknai, filed 12-24-14. Item #73 on San Diego Register of Actions for the State case. Bare bones language, as per usual with AS and his counsel. No inflammatory language, and vague summary of complaint.

Plaintiffs allege various torts against defendants and seek various categories of damages, including
compensatory, pecuniary and punitive damages.

Highlights:

Item 7:

7. Estimated length of trial
The party or parties estimate that the trial will take (check one):
a. [ ] days (specify number): 7-10

Item 10c: Defendant AS is willing to participate in Alternative Dispute Resolution: Mediation

Item 11: Insurance company listed as:

11. Insurance
a. [ZJ Insurance carrier, if any, for party filing this statement (name): Travelers Commercial Insurance Company
b. Reservation of rights: Yes

https://roa.sdcourt.ca.gov/roa/face...4_Case_Management_Statement_1419914985878.pdf

 

[screecher]

^hmmm...very interesting. Thanks.

 

[*Lash*]

If it's so inexpensive, then why did you doubt Dina would have a $50M policy?

Dina may have a $50M. It is just not as common.

From the link above and several sources, the coverage amount should be at least equal to your net worth as a starting point. In my opinion, Dina does not have a net worth of $50M. Too much liability coverage can make you a target for lawsuits.

As well, the more coverage you choose the higher the premium will cost. The author in the article states their personal net worth is $500,000 and he falls in the low/average risk pool. Several sources show premiums increased at least $50-100. per million. These are OOP costs. Dina would fall in the high risk pool. Her premium would be much higher than the author. Dina at one time had multiple properties in affluent locations and different states. Her net worth, assets, profession(?) and even charities would be used in calculating her risk. From what little we know, Dina is not working. Her source of income comes from her divorce settlement and likely investments. I don't believe anyone helping manage her money would recommend a $50M policy.

Links-

You’ve got to check the latest insurance rates and make an informed decision. According to the Insurance Information Institute, a $1 million umbrella policy typically costs between $150 to $300 a year. Each incremental $1 million dollars of personal liability insurance costs on less and les. Here is what it will cost me for various levels of umbrella policy with my insurance company. Here is what an umbrella policy will cost me after checking with AllState, a trusted insurance provider.

* $182.77 a year for a $1 million umbrella policy.
* $304.62 a year for a $2 million umbrella policy.
* $414.28 a year for a $3 million umbrella policy.
* $577.56 a year for a $5 million umbrella policy.

- See more at: http://www.financialsamurai.com/how...rk-and-how-much-does-it-cost/#sthash.qmZvFtWo.

It doesn’t have to sap your budget, she says. An umbrella policy — which adds protection beyond the limits of home and auto policies — with $1 million in personal liability coverage can run $150 to $300 per year. The next million dollars would cost an additional $75, and $50 for each million dollars worth of coverage after that, according to the Insurance Information Institute.

http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/perfi/insurance/2011-03-24-umbrella-liability-insurance.htm

 

[*Lash*]

Interesting. Again the defendants are showing differences in how they may proceed.

10. (C) Indicate the ADR process or processes that the party or parties are willing to participate in, have agreed to participate in, or have already participated in (check all that apply and provide the specified information):

*Adam's counsel - mediation
*Dina's counsel - left blank

--------

It appears Adam has received an ROR letter for his claim with Traveler's.

11. (B) Insurance (Reservation of rights)

*Adam - yes
*Dina - no

Reservations of Rights
An insurer's notification to an insured that coverage for a claim may not apply. Such notification allows an insurer to investigate (or even defend) a claim to determine whether coverage applies (in whole or in part) without waiving its right to later deny coverage based on information revealed by the investigation.

Insurers use a reservation of rights letter because in many claim situations, all the insurer has at the inception of the claim are various unsubstantiated allegations and, at best, a few confirmed facts. In reserving its rights to later deny coverage, the insurer is merely telling the insured of its concerns that the claim, in whole or in part, may not be covered under the policy, pending further investigation.

Although a reservation of rights protects an insurer's interests, it also alerts an insured to the fact that some elements of a claim may not be covered, thereby allowing the insured to take necessary steps to protect its potentially uninsured interests.

http://www.irmi.com/online/insurance-glossary/terms/r/reservation-of-rights.aspx

 

[screecher]

^and nothing from Nina?

 

[K_Z]

^and nothing from Nina?

Not yet. But I expect hers will be filed and posted shortly. I'm not expecting much new info in Nina's filing, but it will be interesting to see if she is willing to continue with alternative dispute resolution methods, and whether she lists an insurance company, as well as how her attorneys phrase the allegations by the plaintiffs-- angry/ defiant (like DS's) vs vague, like AS's. I'm guessing these case management statements probably have to be filed by the Jan 9 telephonic conference.

https://roa.sdcourt.ca.gov/roa/faces/CaseSearch.xhtml (Free to search- you have to pay a small fee for documents but the docket search is free to anyone. Case 13-75418)

Nothing new posted on PACER on the Federal case, either. (You need to set up an account to access PACER. Case # 13-01624)

 

[*Lash*]

The ROA is still not showing a case management statement filed by Nina.

This Friday, 9th, Civil Case Management Conference.

https://roa.sdcourt.ca.gov/roa/

Case# 37-2013-00075418-CU-PO-CTL

 

[LoveAlways7]

always knew insurance was going to come up. "Accident" plus "home owner's insurance" equals "insurance pay out"

You may notice a pretty lucrative insurance case joined by Rebecca's boyfriend's best friend.

 

[LoveAlways7]

subject matter: investment

 

[LoveAlways7]

CV2008-001108
Maricopa County