Wrongful Death Suit filed Nov. 13, 2013 in California, #2

[screecher]

It seems every time the talk here turns to Max and Rebecca's responsibility in his death, there is a new claim to derail the conversation.

Bourne, please give us a link that proves the case is going to trial, and not up for dismissal, as I have proved.

BBM

This thread is about Rebecca and the wrongful death suit, occasionally, Maxie's name and accident comes in, as it pertains to MOTIVE regarding Rebecca's most horrific murder.

 

[Frigga]

OMG, this is finally going to happen!

Will we have any insiders in the courtroom?

Justice for Rebecca!!!

I am so grateful to hear this, it is incredibly good news.

Let a jury decide, after hearing all of the evidence.

I am praying for justice to be served- whatever that may look like. I will definitely make an effort to be in court, on occasion.

 

[Frigga]

It seems every time the talk here turns to Max and Rebecca's responsibility in his death, there is a new claim to derail the conversation.

Bourne, please give us a link that proves the case is going to trial, and not up for dismissal, as I have proved.

What exactly have you proved?

 

[Frigga]

For the case to go to trial, MURDER charges have to be brought first. Has anyone been charged with murder and arrested yet?

Katy, this is about the wrongful death suit- filed by Rebecca's family- going to trial.

It is, or could be, a step towards that- eventually. I believe it will be.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

BBM

This thread is about Rebecca and the wrongful death suit, occasionally, Maxie's name and accident comes in, as it pertains to MOTIVE regarding Rebecca's most horrific murder.

We all have opinion, some are even based on fact. I have the right to be on the side of the innocent Romanos and Shacknais, and to voice my opinions. You cannot discuss Rebecca Zahau without discussing Max, since that was her MOTIVE for hanging herself from Jonah's balcony.

What is FACT is that Rebecca Zahau took her own life. PROVEN by the SDSO, FBi, and DOJ.

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Don't know who you "heard" this from but it is incorrect. The next event is:

02/03/2015 Summary Judgment / Summary Adjudication (Civil) scheduled for 10/09/2015 at 01:30:00 PM at Central in C-69 Katherine Bacal.

This is when the case will be thrown out of court. There will be no jury trial.

https://roa.sdcourt.ca.gov/roa/faces/CaseSearch.xhtml

Please supply a link for your information.

The link for the Civil Case is above. All you have to do is look at the docket to see that there is no trial set or jury selection set.

The summary judgement on 10/09/15 is the next event.

That is when the Judge will look at what has been discovered to date, and IMO, will throw the case out for lack of evidence and the Zahau<mod snip> will have to pay for the Romanos and Shacknais court cost AND pay them damages.

But don't trust me, look it up yourself, and you'll see that Bourne is wrong in what he "heard".

 

[K_Z]

Dina Shacknai has added 2 attorneys, pro hoc vice, to her State case, items #97 and #98 on the San Diego ROA. (Dated 1-30-15). The 2 attorneys are Daniel Benchoff (added to the Federal case a while back), and the lead attorney in his firm, M.E. "Buddy" Rake. Both of the Rake Law Group in Maricopa County, AZ.

Dina continues to have very good representation in California, and appears to be willing to add several out of state attorneys to her team.

https://roa.sdcourt.ca.gov/roa/faces/CaseSearch.xhtml (case 13-75418)

http://aztriallaw.com/buddy-rake/

http://aztriallaw.com/daniel-t-benchoff/

The next hearing on the schedule is item #92:

Discovery Hearing scheduled for 05/01/2015 at 01:30:00 PM at Central in C-69 Katherine Bacal

And items 85-88, case conference, demurrers/ motions to strike, and motions to dismiss, are scheduled for same day and time, 05/01/2015. (Routine actions.)

 

[LuckyLucy2]

Katy, this is about the wrongful death suit- filed by Rebecca's family- going to trial.

It is, or could be, a step towards that- eventually. I believe it will be.

Katie, Rebecca's death was ruled a suicide - that hasn't changed. This is a wrongful death suit, filed by the <mod snip>, that seeks 10 million dollars as compensation for Rebecca's "murder". The accusations are just that - accusations, and the <mod snip> have no evidence to back up their tawdry charges. Personally, I find it very sad that people file these types of cases for $$$$$$$$$$. But I beleive it will backfire on them, and they will end up paying the court costs for the Romanos and Shacknais, as well as damages. Its just sad that the <mod snip> can't put their grief into something positive.

 

[fran]

Just heard the case is going to trial and jury selection set for next month!

arty: WOOHOO! Sayonara <mod snip> Dina and Nina. :jail:

Do you have a link for this information?

tia
fran

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I doubt Dina will make such accusations anywhere but in court in response to their lawsuit. But I do get the distinct impression from Dina's public comments so far that she sincerely believes her son was murdered.

JMO

I totally believe that is what she truly believes. Doesn't she have her own experts that agree with her? If so, that would only convince her even more. Will this subject come up in the Zs civil lawsuit? As the motive for allegedly murdering Rebecca?

This will be a new twist in a civil case and I don't think I have ever seen or read about one quite like it (where someone thinks a person has murdered their little child and then murders the 'killer' yet they have never even been charged with the murder nor even listed as a POI or suspect(s).

In one way it could hurt Dina if the jury believes Maxie was murdered by Rebecca because it gives great weight to a motive by Dina but at the same time she may be given sympathy by some of the jurors. You would think though if Dina had murdered RZ she wouldn't have been so vocal right away about RZ being the murderer of Maxie.

You can never determine how a jury is going to process evidence. On one hand they may also think Maxie was indeed murdered by Rebecca and that would be ample reason/motive for RZ to commit suicide and of course they could also think Rebecca's death was also a homicide by a distraught mother, sister and brother-in-law. They may have doubts on both deaths and how they were both ruled to have happened. So it could get very interesting.

I think if the jury believes Rebecca killed Maxie in a fit of temper they are more apt to think D, N, and A murdered Rebecca in retaliation. Unless the evidence presented shows otherwise.

So they could wind up believing both deaths were homicides.

As far as Dina finally speaking out I don't have any problems with that. I am not sure she lied either. She is not a stupid woman, imo. I think she simply meant at the time Rebecca died she nor Nina were there. I don't think the plaintiff's attorney will make much headway using the statement she made.

While there will always be those who are convinced beyond all doubt that RZs death was a homicide, I truly don't think this civil lawsuit will be easily won. It is one thing to file a civil lawsuit against someone who has already been in the court system like in OJs case where the trial witnesses also testified in the civil trial. But accusing someone of murder is going to be extremely hard to prove. The jury will feel overburden from typical civil cases since this is not a typical case. They are going to have to decide that the evidence proves that not only one person is guilty of murder but three people who has never been charged for any crime connected to the case. Even in lawsuits concerning accidents of some kind there is always a recorded record of it in the criminal justice system.

Will Dina's attorneys call the same ME and police officers that conducted the investigation?

I just feel this will be a very hard case to win but I may be wrong.

 

[screecher]

Dina Shacknai has added 2 attorneys, pro hoc vice, to her State case, items #97 and #98 on the San Diego ROA. (Dated 1-30-15). The 2 attorneys are Daniel Benchoff (added to the Federal case a while back), and the lead attorney in his firm, M.E. "Buddy" Rake. Both of the Rake Law Group in Maricopa County, AZ.

Dina continues to have very good representation in California, and appears to be willing to add several out of state attorneys to her team.

https://roa.sdcourt.ca.gov/roa/faces/CaseSearch.xhtml (case 13-75418)

http://aztriallaw.com/buddy-rake/

http://aztriallaw.com/daniel-t-benchoff/

The next hearing on the schedule is item #92:



And items 85-88, case conference, demurrers/ motions to strike, and motions to dismiss, are scheduled for same day and time, 05/01/2015. (Routine actions.)

BBM

Yea, and she's gonna need all the help she can afford, imo.

I do wonder if both Adam's and Nina's attorneys are suggesting, advising them to cut their losses and settle.

Any thoughts anyone?

Thanks K_Z.

 

[MyBelle]

BBM

Yea, and she's gonna need all the help she can afford, imo.

I do wonder if both Adam's and Nina's attorneys are suggesting, advising them to cut their losses and settle.

Any thoughts anyone?

Thanks K_Z.

I just don't see any defendant settling this case which is so incredibly weak because LE ruled it a suicide. I think medical records do spell out exactly where Dina was in those first few days after Max was injured. I also believe his medical records will spell out the medical uncertainty of his condition in those first few days. Dina nor anybody else had a motive at that point to harm RZ.

JMO

 

[*Lash*]

Thanks! I wish I could read the actual details. He was such an adorable little boy. What a horrible tragedy to go through.

You're welcome. Maxie was a cute little boy with an illuminating smile I would like to see the actual complaint. The county website doesn't give an option to purchase court documents. The courthouse may be the only way to obtain a copy of the complaint unless the media or Dina release the documents. The case was dismissed with prejudice on 1-22-2015. I think Dina's attorneys are going to try to use parts of Maxie's WDS in the Zahau WDS. Dina has recently added attorneys to the Zahau WDS. The same attorneys who represented her in Maxie's WDS. Time will tell.

 

[*Lash*]

There are two cases. The Federal suit and the State suit, both have separate websites. The Federal website is Pacer. The State website is called ROA (register of actions). FWIW, nothing showing on the Federal site either.

 

[Betty P]

I totally believe that is what she truly believes. Doesn't she have her own experts that agree with her? If so, that would only convince her even more. Will this subject come up in the Zs civil lawsuit? As the motive for allegedly murdering Rebecca?

This will be a new twist in a civil case and I don't think I have ever seen or read about one quite like it (where someone thinks a person has murdered their little child and then murders the 'killer' yet they have never even been charged with the murder nor even listed as a POI or suspect(s).

In one way it could hurt Dina if the jury believes Maxie was murdered by Rebecca because it gives great weight to a motive by Dina but at the same time she may be given sympathy by some of the jurors. You would think though if Dina had murdered RZ she wouldn't have been so vocal right away about RZ being the murderer of Maxie.

You can never determine how a jury is going to process evidence. On one hand they may also think Maxie was indeed murdered by Rebecca and that would be ample reason/motive for RZ to commit suicide and of course they could also think Rebecca's death was also a homicide by a distraught mother, sister and brother-in-law. They may have doubts on both deaths and how they were both ruled to have happened. So it could get very interesting.

I think if the jury believes Rebecca killed Maxie in a fit of temper they are more apt to think D, N, and A murdered Rebecca in retaliation. Unless the evidence presented shows otherwise.

So they could wind up believing both deaths were homicides.

As far as Dina finally speaking out I don't have any problems with that. I am not sure she lied either. She is not a stupid woman, imo. I think she simply meant at the time Rebecca died she nor Nina were there. I don't think the plaintiff's attorney will make much headway using the statement she made.

While there will always be those who are convinced beyond all doubt that RZs death was a homicide, I truly don't think this civil lawsuit will be easily won. It is one thing to file a civil lawsuit against someone who has already been in the court system like in OJs case where the trial witnesses also testified in the civil trial. But accusing someone of murder is going to be extremely hard to prove. The jury will feel overburden from typical civil cases since this is not a typical case. They are going to have to decide that the evidence proves that not only one person is guilty of murder but three people who has never been charged for any crime connected to the case. Even in lawsuits concerning accidents of some kind there is always a recorded record of it in the criminal justice system.

Will Dina's attorneys call the same ME and police officers that conducted the investigation?

I just feel this will be a very hard case to win but I may be wrong.

I agree, this is a difficult case for the Zahau family to win. Rebecca was likely murdered by family members at the home of a politically powerful billionaire. Her family, a group of hard working immigrants, are working class people without the financial means to fight the Shacknais. Within hours, the former county prosecutor was at the scene of the crime, having been retained by Jonah Shacknai to represent one of the suspects. IMO, former prosecutor Pfingst, a known expert at thwarting murder investigations, was on the case within minutes of RZ's murder.

SDSO did a commendable job of minimally investigating the case and using the suicide theory to close it as quickly as possible. Hundreds of questions weren't asked, suspect and witness interviews were not taken, evidence wasn't collected or properly analyzed. They even allowed Jonah to direct the investigation, telling them when to ignore evidence. Even today, personal property of the victim that could yield evidence, has not been returned to her family, though the case is officially closed. Evidence is scarce becsuse it wasn't collected.

But the timeline and circumstances leading up to RZ's murder are impossible to refute. The evidence of head trauma, multiple strangulation marks, numerous defensive wounds, etc are powerful evidence that she died a violent death at the hands of others.

IMO, the Shacknais will likely use their own expert witnesses at the trial. But hopefully the Zahau's attorneys will do the same.

Its a classic American murder case, IMO. Wealthy, powerful people getting away with killing someone by using their wealth to protect themselves. As much as we'd like to believe otherwise, justice in this country doesn't work the same for everyone.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I agree, this is a difficult case for the Zahau family to win. Rebecca was likely murdered by family members at the home of a politically powerful billionaire. Her family, a group of hard working immigrants, are working class people without the financial means to fight the Shacknais. Within hours, the former county prosecutor was at the scene of the crime, having been retained by Jonah Shacknai to represent one of the suspects. IMO, former prosecutor Pfingst, a known expert at thwarting murder investigations, was on the case within minutes of RZ's murder.

SDSO did a commendable job of minimally investigating the case and using the suicide theory to close it as quickly as possible. Hundreds of questions weren't asked, suspect and witness interviews were not taken, evidence wasn't collected or properly analyzed. They even allowed Jonah to direct the investigation, telling them when to ignore evidence. Even today, personal property of the victim that could yield evidence, has not been returned to her family, though the case is officially closed. Evidence is scarce becsuse it wasn't collected.

But the timeline and circumstances leading up to RZ's murder are impossible to refute. The evidence of head trauma, multiple strangulation marks, numerous defensive wounds, etc are powerful evidence that she died a violent death at the hands of others.

IMO, the Shacknais will likely use their own expert witnesses at the trial. But hopefully the Zahau's attorneys will do the same.

Its a classic American murder case, IMO. Wealthy, powerful people getting away with killing someone by using their wealth to protect themselves. As much as we'd like to believe otherwise, justice in this country doesn't work the same for everyone.

It certainly is a case with many twists and turns.

Even if the jury is convinced that Rebecca's death was a homicide they still have to be convinced that these three are the guilty parties. While civil trials are by the preponderance of the evidence I never felt that held true. I was on one civil trial and everyone of us was convinced beyond all doubt that the plaintiff had lied in order to seek money they weren't entitled to have. We didn't get in the deliberation room and come to the conclusion she had most likely lied. We knew she had lied about the fake non-existent 'accident' and her family members too.

It didn't involve murder but what I mean is.... no one is going to sign their name to a verdict, especially one as serious as this one, without being sure the people involved are guilty. So to win this they have to have concrete evidence placing all three of them in the bedroom with RZ at the time of her death.

Will they have the evidence to convince the jury? I am not sure they do have it but time will tell.

I do feel this time around an expert on suicides will testify for the defendants about strange methods of suicides and there has been some doozies over the years in the manner in which the suicides were carried out. Quite oddly many of them also had handcuffed/or bound their hands behind their backs and bound their feet also before they hung themselves.

And what if they do believe Rebecca killed Maxie? If it is entered that Dina thought Rebecca murdered her son (motive for RZs homicide), and I do think it will be, then will the jury be willing to award Rebecca's family money if they think Maxie was killed? Just some of things I think about sometimes about this upcoming case.

It is a very complex highly unusual case that could wind up in so many different ways based on what the jury believes about each set of facts presented. If they are told to discount Rebecca's death as a suicide then it opens up the door for them to believe Maxie's death was also homicide, and if they believe that then it is going to open up a whole lot of things to consider and make the case even more complicated.

Usually in cases like this the plaintiff doesn't put up any up front money and if the lawyers win the case........then they take a big cut from the award given. Is this not the case in this one? I haven't been able to read much to learn about the attorneys expertise for both sides.

I am very interested in how it all plays out though.

Thanks for you reply Betty.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

BBM

Yea, and she's gonna need all the help she can afford, imo.

I do wonder if both Adam's and Nina's attorneys are suggesting, advising them to cut their losses and settle.

Any thoughts anyone?

Thanks K_Z.

I don't think Dina will ever settle this case out of court.

JMO

 

[screecher]

I don't think Dina will ever settle this case out of court.

JMO

I agree. Dina will never settle. However, Adam and perhaps Nina are another story. It wouldn't surprise me at all if it is being discussed and considered seriously as an option.

 

[inthedark14]

I really hope none of the defendants settle. I hope that all of the available information comes out in court in front of a jury.

ALWAYS MOO

 

[Betty P]

I really hope none of the defendants settle. I hope that all of the available information comes out in court in front of a jury.

ALWAYS MOO

I agree, some significant information will be revealed during the discovery process since the SDSO investigation was so incomplete. Additional interviews of witnesses who were never fully questioned by SDSO will likely turn up new information. It's also possible more evidence is available in SDSO files that wasn't revealed publicly.

New information has already been revealed as a result of the WDS: Rebecca's missing clothes and the use of the unusual, complex tugboat hitch knot for RZs hanging noose.

As for settlements, Adam is most at risk. He was the last person to see RZ, was staying in the guest house, discovered RZ's body and made the strange call to 911. He failed to pass the polygraph and admitted to viewing *advertiser censored* just prior to finding RZ. He's also likely the only person with the skill to tie the elaborate nautical bindings and knots.

But if Adam goes down, SDSO goes down with him for their unusual mismanagement of the case. There's a lot at stake.