Wrongful Death Suit filed Nov. 13, 2013 in California, #3

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The most telling evidence, IMO, is the contusions on Rebecca's head. It's one of the signs law enforcement looks for when determining a death by hanging was suicide or murder. It's a sign that someone knocked the victim unconscious before hanging them.

Then there's the whole problem with Rebecca's missing clothing and the rare nautical knot used for the noose.

From the SDSO press conference Wednesday. November 16, 2011
Sheriff Bill Gore, Dr. Jonathan Lucas, (Medical Examiner) and Mike Grubb, Director, SDSO Crime Lab

Lucas: Evidence at the scene supports and the bindings support the notion that she leaned over the balcony shifted her body weight over and went over in that fashion and you can imagine that she would be going with her head down or at least sideways. It’s my thought that one of those impacts on the head was probably from the edge of the balcony as she went over. There were 4 impacts, one of them was two inches by one inch, that’s the one that I think was probably from going over the balcony, the three others were smaller than a nickel, not only did they not represent enough force to cause unconsciousness they may not have even given her a headache. I do not know exactly how they happened, but they were minor and inconsequential.


As for the "natical" knots? Knot true. That is another misinterpretation put out by the Zahau camp. They were very simple loop knots and the noose was a slip knot.

(Sgt. Roy) Frank said Adam had flown in from out of state on Monday and was “staying in the house to be there for his brother.” According to Frank, Adam cut Nalepa down from the “makeshift noose,” called police, and attempted to render medical care.[/B]

http://www.examiner.com/article/detailed-report-on-suicide-findings-death-of-Rebecca-zahau

The case for suicide was presented by Sergeant Dave Nemeth, of the San Diego County Sheriff's Department Homicide Detail, and is based on DNA trace evidence, forensic toxicology analysis, examination of the physical evidence, a video re-enactment by a woman of similar body structure to Ms. Zahau, 5 feet, 3-1/2 inches, weighing 100 pounds, placing a rope with a slip knot around her neck, binding her ankles, and tying one hand, with a similar slip knot, placing that behind her back, inserting her right wrist, and tightening the knot.

http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...thin-days.html


And here are some quotes from WebSleuth posters when the first photos of the knots came out

General Thread 1, Post1037

Thanks for quoting that. I saw it before - what the heck is a "makeshift noose"? I guess that means it wasn't very sophisticated

General Thread Two

Post 62 -The photo I posted upthread. You're right - they are tied, somewhat, but loosely and sloppy -- leaving wiggle room. That's what I meant in that I feel she could still kick around. I would think this would be a natural survival instinct.

Post 63. what photo are you looking at. Mine shows feet together! (albeit, loosely, like sloppy wrapped binding around them)

Post 64. You're right - they are tied, somewhat, but loosely and sloppy -- leaving wiggle room. That's what I meant in that I feel she could still kick around. I would think this would be a natural survival instinct.
 
this one doesn't hold true in my mind, as when a person hangs themselves, they are looking ugly in every other way imaginable, including defecating all over themselves.


AFAIK, Rebecca did not "defecated all over herself". Do you have a link for that, or is that insider information?

TIA
 
Gagging oneself while commiting suicide by hanging is not unusual at all. It is clear that Rebecca put the gag in her mouth herself. A murderer would have tied the gag. Someone committing suicide would just put it in their mouth, like Rebecca did.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7165029

http://www.academia.edu/903627/Prec...g_and_Reducing_Pain_in_Suicidal_Hanging_Cases

Well, that it explains it all!! Another one of those "gotta girl hung herself" moments (per AS's astute observation), 15 detectives working around the clock, assisted by the FBI (who forgot to show SDSO how to retrieve phone information, by the way) and a razor sharp, articulate, albeit-Johnny-Come-Lately-Medical-Examiner. All they had to do was look up this study done in the province of Konya, Turkey!!!
Are you serious??
First point: All the "hanging victims" WERE WEARING CLOTHES. None of them were naked.
Second: The shaving of pubic or armpit hair had nothing to do with suicide...It is a Muslim practice, and an indicator of adherence to a religious doctrine. "I heard the Prophet saying. "Five practices are characteristics of the Fitra: circumcision, shaving the pubic hair, cutting the moustaches short, clipping the nails, and depilating the hair of the armpits."
(Source : Sahih Bukhari : 7/72/779)
Third: None of the victims had been beat on the head....prior to being hung.
Fourth: All of the "suicides" put the scarf/fabric/collars etc. INSIDE the hanging knot. The shirt around Rebecca's neck was on the OUTSIDE the hanging knot.
Fifth: In 14 of the suicides, the KNOT was referred to as TYPICAL. Hmmmm...Konya is almost 100 miles from the ocean...I wonder what a TYPICAL KNOT is in Konya, Turkey? Because the Knots on Rebecca were NEVER described as TYPICAL. (Weren't they described as similar to sailing knots??)
Sixth: The suicides and items used were observed to be simple and straight forward, ie lamp cord, shirt, clothesline, cable and even a rope....but always using the minimum amount of material. No where has it ever been shown in Konya,Turkey (or anywhere else for that matter) the victims wrapped 200 feet of rope around their ankles 8 times or around their wrists 6 times....go figure
Seventh: Of all the reasons listed for the suicides, none of them were listed as "fear of boyfriend's ex-spouse" or "fear of going to jail" or "death of loved one".
However, I found the article interesting from the aspect of "cultural differences"... a study of suicides in the United States would be the only relevant source for comparisons....Konya, Turkey is 7,179 miles from Coronado.

(....shaking my head, Konya, Turkey...really?)
 
IQuestion, you may question my sources, but the fact remains that Rebecca Zahau's death is officailly a suicide, and that is what the evidence proves.

Rebecca was also not "beat on the head", as the Medical Examiner that autopsied her fresh dead body (not dug up months later for a Sweeps Week Television extravaganza) explained. Please see my post #1362 where the good Dr. Lucas states that the bumps were 'inconsequential", did not knock her out, and probably would not even have caused a headache.

A gag in one's mouth, put there by the suicidal individual, and a scream that was investigated and discounted by 15 detectives, will never be enough to prove that Rebecca Zahau was murdered by Adam Shacknai because she was not. She committed suicide.

That is what the physical evidence proves. The Zahaus will never make their big cash dreams off of the Innocent. Too much evidence proves they are wrong.

http://sdsheriff.net/coronado/
 
IQuestion, you may question my sources, but the fact remains that Rebecca Zahau's death is officailly a suicide, and that is what the evidence proves.

Rebecca was also not "beat on the head", as the Medical Examiner that autopsied her fresh dead body (not dug up months later for a Sweeps Week Television extravaganza) explained. Please see my post #1362 where the good Dr. Lucas states that the bumps were 'inconsequential", did not knock her out, and probably would not even have caused a headache.

A gag in one's mouth, put there by the suicidal individual, and a scream that was investigated and discounted by 15 detectives, will never be enough to prove that Rebecca Zahau was murdered by Adam Shacknai because she was not. She committed suicide.

That is what the physical evidence proves. The Zahaus will never make their big cash dreams off of the Innocent. Too much evidence proves they are wrong.

http://sdsheriff.net/coronado/

Excuse me LuLu2, but you are NOT a forensic expert. Just because the ME ruled it a suicide does not make it so. You in fact claim that they (SDSO, CPD and the ME) got Max's death wrong........yet you are so insistent that they were correct in ruling Rebecca's death as suicide........The Zahau family isn't interested in the money, they want to know what happened to Rebecca, as many of us do.
 
Pathologist: Zahau’s head injuries unexplained by hanging scenario

Posted: Sep 03, 2011 12:33 AM
CORONADO, Calif. (CBS 8) -- A renowned forensic pathologist said Sunday that injuries on the top of the head of Rebecca Zahau described in her autopsy are unexplained by the circumstances of her hanging death, which was officially ruled a suicide by the San Diego County Medical Examiner.

Pathologist Cyril Wecht reviewed Zahua's entire autopsy report, obtained Friday by News 8.

"She has subgaleal hemorrhages; those are hemorrhages on the undersurface of the scalp. I see no reason why she should have those." Dr. Wecht said. "You get those when your head strikes something or is struck by something."

Wecht said the scenario described by investigators where Zahau used a rope to tie her own hands, feet and neck before rolling off the balcony of her boyfriend's Coronado mansion leaves many unanswered questions.

"Even if (her) scalp hit bushes, that kind of impact would not produce subgaleal hemorrhage," Wecht said. "We're talking about contusions on the top of the head. So, even as the body is falling down – let's say there are branches – how do you get bruises on the top of the head as the body is falling vertically downward?"
Wecht said Zahau's head injuries – which caused bleeding underneath her scalp – would have occurred while she was still alive or in the minutes shortly after her death. He said it is impossible to determine whether Zahau's head traumas would have rendered her unconscious.

"A blow or blows sufficient to produce subgaleal, subscalpular hemorrhage could be sufficient for someone to be knocked out, just temporarily, not to produce any damage to the brain, not to cause any prolonged unconsciousness; but one cannot say," Dr. Wecht said. "They are clearly indicia of some kind of blunt force trauma. So, for someone to say there is no evidence whatsoever of any kind of a struggle is not correct."

http://www.cbs8.com/story/15388199/autopsy-rebecca-zahau-found-gagged-with-t-shirt-in-mouth
 
How did the ME know what the bindings looked like when Adam found Rebecca? Adam disturbed the crime scene. Imo, speculation...

(credit) Valhall-Hinky Meter:

Then the conclusions drawn in the autopsy are based on, well, complete speculation? When Adam Shacknai, Jonah’s brother, found Rebecca hanging from the balcony, he disturbed the crime scene in the following ways in order to attempt CPR:

•He cut her down and let her fall to the grassy area in the courtyard, he untied the rope that bound her wrists, and removed the gag from her mouth to perform CPR.

•The coroner has concluded that the T-shirt was loosely wrapped around Rebecca’s neck and that the rope around her wrists was loose allowing her to slip her hands into the bindings.

•The family contends there is no way for the coroner to know either of these things considering those two items had been disturbed and loosened by Adam prior to the autopsy being performed.






 
Excuse me LuLu2, but you are NOT a forensic expert. Just because the ME ruled it a suicide does not make it so. You in fact claim that they (SDSO, CPD and the ME) got Max's death wrong........yet you are so insistent that they were correct in ruling Rebecca's death as suicide........The Zahau family isn't interested in the money, they want to know what happened to Rebecca, as many of us do.

Respectfully, I have never claimed to be a forensic expert, but how do you know I am not a forensic expert? Just become someone is not verified does not automatically mean they do not know what they are talking about, and none of us know what others do professionaly, if anything, do we?

None the less, REAL forensic experts examined Rebecca's room, balcony, and Rebecca's body. THEY found the physical evidence that proved to them beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was suicide.

It is TRUE that Rebecca's death was a suicide. A FACT. This civil suit won't change that. That is why it is a civil trial - there is no evidence for a criminal trial, and the Zahaus are just after money. If they were not after $$$ and after "justice" as they claim, they would have not dug Rebecca up for a publicity stunt.

JMO

Even Dr. Wecht said he could not say it was a murder.
 
Wecht, a forensic pathologist who has worked on many high-profile death cases, said four subgaleal hemorrhages -- between the scalp and skull on top of the head -- listed in the autopsy report may be inconsistent with the suicide theory.

"You only get those from blunt force trauma," Wecht said. "That means your head struck something or was struck by something. I repeat for emphasis: four separate locations. The head is contoured; to have it bruised in different places, that means you have to strike different parts of the head."[\b]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/09/07/california.mansion.deaths/
 
No one, including the dubious Zahau lawyer Curtis Greer, has ANY evidence that links Adam, Dina or Nina to Rebecca's room or that balcony.

Everyone seems to get so upset when I bring up this MAJOR point, yet have no evidence to offer.

Many people on the internet have come up with wild speculation about what happened. I happen to think the four law enforcement agencies, and 15 detectives did their job well, and, after reviewing all of the evidence, correctly concluded that Rebecca's death was a suicide. And the California Attorney General found no reason to reopen the case.

Rebecca Zahau committed suicide. Hopefully, one day the Zahaus and their followers can come to terms with that.

JMO
 
Wecht, a forensic pathologist who has worked on many high-profile death cases, said four subgaleal hemorrhages -- between the scalp and skull on top of the head -- listed in the autopsy report may be inconsistent with the suicide theory.

"You only get those from blunt force trauma," Wecht said. "That means your head struck something or was struck by something. I repeat for emphasis: four separate locations. The head is contoured; to have it bruised in different places, that means you have to strike different parts of the head."[\b]

http://www.cnn.com/2011/CRIME/09/07/california.mansion.deaths/


The Medical Examiner that autopsied her body does not agree with Wecht. Wecht also said Whitney Hoston's death was a murder, when, in fact, it was a suicde.

IMO, Wecht says what he is paid to say.
 
No one, including the dubious Zahau lawyer Curtis Greer, has ANY evidence that links Adam, Dina or Nina to Rebecca's room or that balcony.

SBM: Just curious, but how do you know? Nothing from the discovery process has been divulged. In fact, three of the key poi have yet to be disposed. We also do not have the entire case file nor have we seen the surveillance tapes. IMO, there is plenty of circumstantial evidence to point to murder and put these three in that room and/or in the courtyard that night/morning. IMO, the momentum being gained is because more evidence is being uncovered as the process moves forward. The loose ends the SDSO ignored and neglected to investigate are tightening...
 
If Curtis Greer had any real, PHYSICAL evidence that Dina, Nina, or Adam were in that room he would have annouced THAT in the media, and saved his breath with this non-evidence scream and gag crap.

He is the Zahaus' FOURTH lawyer. The other three obviously couldn't find any physical evidence either.

There is also NO physical OR circumstantial evidence that puts any of the three in that bedroom or on that balcony. Or even in the main house. NONE.

There is no "momentum being gained" unless it is towards the dismissal that will be coming when the Judge rules on the Demurrers and has a Summary Judgement in February.

JMO
 
Respectfully, I have never claimed to be a forensic expert, but how do you know I am not a forensic expert? Just become someone is not verified does not automatically mean they do not know what they are talking about, and none of us know what others do professionaly, if anything, do we?

None the less, REAL forensic experts examined Rebecca's room, balcony, and Rebecca's body. THEY found the physical evidence that proved to them beyond a shadow of a doubt that it was suicide.

It is TRUE that Rebecca's death was a suicide. A FACT. This civil suit won't change that. That is why it is a civil trial - there is no evidence for a criminal trial, and the Zahaus are just after money. If they were not after $$$ and after "justice" as they claim, they would have not dug Rebecca up for a publicity stunt.

JMO

LuckyLucy2, There are many reasons for a body to be exhumed: Incorrect identification, trace evidence overlooked or missing, incomplete or improper wound analysis, DNA testing, procuring new evidence...and other forensic reasons. In every case, THE BODY CAN ONLY BE EXHUMED BY COURT ORDER. Obviously, a person would be devastated to go to a cemetery and find that your siblings moved your parent's body, huh? Or an ex-spouse decided to move a child's body to a family plot in Pennsylvania, without the other parent's permission. (some states actually refer to it as body stealing.)
http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/exhuming-a-corpse-for-forensic-analysis.html
NEVER, N.E.V.E.R, N-E-V-E-R....does a judge grant such an order for the "fulfillment, gratification, or completion of a publicity stunt."
(So, now it is me TALKING TURKEY USA, as in speaking frankly, discussing hard facts, or getting down to serious business)
 
I happen to know Dr. Wecht......my father worked with him for years and a family member was a former law student of his and is now a colleague........Dr. Wecht has high marks in my book........I respect his opinion much more than the local ME.



I'm sure Dr. Wecht is a nice person, but IMO, seems to come to the conclusion he is paid to come to.

We will just have to agree to disagree about Dr. Wecht.

JMO
 
I'm sure Dr. Wecht is a nice person, but IMO, seems to come to the conclusion he is paid to come to.

We will just have to agree to disagree about Dr. Wecht.

JMO

I was not stating that Dr. Wecht was a "nice person". I stated that he is very competent in his field, and I have the utmost respect for him. I have more faith in what he says that the SD ME.......for a number of reasons, one of them being that my late father worked with him on a number of cases.
 
LuckyLucy2, There are many reasons for a body to be exhumed: Incorrect identification, trace evidence overlooked or missing, incomplete or improper wound analysis, DNA testing, procuring new evidence...and other forensic reasons. In every case, THE BODY CAN ONLY BE EXHUMED BY COURT ORDER. Obviously, a person would be devastated to go to a cemetery and find that your siblings moved your parent's body, huh? Or an ex-spouse decided to move a child's body to a family plot in Pennsylvania, without the other parent's permission. (some states actually refer to it as body stealing.)
http://www.exploreforensics.co.uk/exhuming-a-corpse-for-forensic-analysis.html
NEVER, N.E.V.E.R, N-E-V-E-R....does a judge grant such an order for the "fulfillment, gratification, or completion of a publicity stunt."
(So, now it is me TALKING TURKEY USA, as in speaking frankly, discussing hard facts, or getting down to serious business)

The court considers (in order of importance) the wishes and religious beliefs of the deceased (if these can be determined), the wishes of the spouse of the deceased, the opinions of other close relatives, and the policies and regulations of the cemetery when determining if exhumation should be allowed.

Read more: http://www.deathreference.com/En-Gh/Exhumation.html#ixzz3g6IT3lK8


Sounds to me like if a family wishes to dig up their loved one for a publicity stunt, they can do so.

JMO
 
I was not stating that Dr. Wecht was a "nice person". I stated that he is very competent in his field, and I have the utmost respect for him. I have more faith in what he says that the SD ME.......for a number of reasons, one of them being that my late father worked with him on a number of cases.


I would think since he worked with your late father, you would, understandably so, have an automatic bias for his work. I'm sure he has been correct on many cases, but he has also been wrong.

Here is the opinion of another 'big name', from page 270, from Ann Rule's book, Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors,

"The other titan of forensic pathology in America, Dr. Michael Baden, had read the entire case file and leaned toward's the sheriff's interpretation of the manner of Becky's death, and thought it more likely she had taken her own life.


Dr. Michael M. Baden is a board certified forensic pathologist, former Chief Medical Examiner, New York City, lecturer and accomplished author. In addition to maintaining a private practice, Dr. Baden is the co-Director of the New York State Police Medico-Legal Investigation Unit.

After receiving his Medical Degree in 1959 from New York University School of Medicine, Dr. Baden interned in New York City hospitals. From 1961 to 1986, Dr. Baden worked in the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner in New York City and was the Chief Medical Examiner from 1978 to 1979. He was also the Deputy Chief Medical Examiner for Suffolk County from 1981 to 1983. Dr. Baden has held professorial appointments at Albert Einstein Medical School, Albany Medical College, New York Law School and John Jay College of Criminal Justice. Dr. Baden has lectured at numerous universities, has been affiliated with the New York State Police for twelve years and has worked closely with the New York State Police Child Abuse and Violent Crime Analysis Unit (VICAP). He has served as the President of the Society of Medical Jurisprudence and Vice President of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences. He was the Chairman of the Forensic Pathology Panel of the U.S. Congress Select Committee on assassinations that investigated the deaths of President John F. Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Dr. Baden has been involved as an expert in forensic pathology in many cases of international interest, including the examination of the remains of Tsar Nicholas of Russia and his family, the death of John Belushi, the re-autopsy of Medgar Evers, Civil Rights Leader, the death of Billy Martin, the deaths of Mary Beth Tinning's nine children, the exhumation and re-autopsy of the five Hoyt children who were murdered by their mother, the re-examination of the Lindbergh kidnapping and murder, and autopsies of the victims of TWA Flight 800.

Dr. Baden has also served as an expert witness for the defense in many criminal cases, including the Claus Von Bulow murder trial, Marlon Brando's son's murder trial, as well as the O.J. Simpson trial. Dr. Baden has also served as an expert witness for the prosecution in the case of State of Nevada v. Tabish and Murphy, the highly-publicized trial of the murder of casino mogul, Lonnie “Ted” Binion.

During his career, Dr. Baden has been published in numerous national and international medical journals. He has also published factual accounts of several of his cases in the books Unnatural Death, Confessions of a Medical Examiner and Dead Reckoning: The New Science of Catching Killers which was released in September 2001. He and his wife, Linda, are co-authors of Remains Silent (2005), a popular forensic novel. In addition, Dr. Baden has been the subject of ten HBO specials beginning in 1994 and continuing through the present, including a “Best of” which highlights several of his interesting cases to demonstrate the value of forensic sciences allied with solid police investigative techniques in homicide investigations.


http://www.educationforensic.com/adviso ... aden.html#
 
I would think since he worked with your late father, you would, understandably so, have an automatic bias for his work. I'm sure he has been correct on many cases, but he has also been wrong.

Here is the opinion of another 'big name', from page 270, from Ann Rule's book, Fatal Friends, Deadly Neighbors,

"The other titan of forensic pathology in America, Dr. Michael Baden, had read the entire case file and leaned toward's the sheriff's interpretation of the manner of Becky's death, and thought it more likely she had taken her own life.


Dr. Michael M. Baden is a board certified forensic pathologist, former Chief Medical Examiner, New York City, lecturer and accomplished author. In addition to maintaining a private practice, Dr. Baden is the co-Director of the New York State Police Medico-Legal Investigation Unit.

After receiving his Medical Degree in 1959 from New York University School of Medicine, Dr. Baden interned in New York City hospitals. From 1961 to 1986, Dr. Baden worked in the Office of the Chief Medical Examiner in New York City and was the Chief Medical Examiner from 1978 to 1979. He was also the Deputy Chief Medical Examiner for Suffolk County from 1981 to 1983. Dr. Baden has held professorial appointments at Albert Einstein Medical School, Albany Medical College, New York Law School and John Jay College of Criminal Justice. Dr. Baden has lectured at numerous universities, has been affiliated with the New York State Police for twelve years and has worked closely with the New York State Police Child Abuse and Violent Crime Analysis Unit (VICAP). He has served as the President of the Society of Medical Jurisprudence and Vice President of the American Academy of Forensic Sciences. He was the Chairman of the Forensic Pathology Panel of the U.S. Congress Select Committee on assassinations that investigated the deaths of President John F. Kennedy and Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. Dr. Baden has been involved as an expert in forensic pathology in many cases of international interest, including the examination of the remains of Tsar Nicholas of Russia and his family, the death of John Belushi, the re-autopsy of Medgar Evers, Civil Rights Leader, the death of Billy Martin, the deaths of Mary Beth Tinning's nine children, the exhumation and re-autopsy of the five Hoyt children who were murdered by their mother, the re-examination of the Lindbergh kidnapping and murder, and autopsies of the victims of TWA Flight 800.

Dr. Baden has also served as an expert witness for the defense in many criminal cases, including the Claus Von Bulow murder trial, Marlon Brando's son's murder trial, as well as the O.J. Simpson trial. Dr. Baden has also served as an expert witness for the prosecution in the case of State of Nevada v. Tabish and Murphy, the highly-publicized trial of the murder of casino mogul, Lonnie “Ted” Binion.

During his career, Dr. Baden has been published in numerous national and international medical journals. He has also published factual accounts of several of his cases in the books Unnatural Death, Confessions of a Medical Examiner and Dead Reckoning: The New Science of Catching Killers which was released in September 2001. He and his wife, Linda, are co-authors of Remains Silent (2005), a popular forensic novel. In addition, Dr. Baden has been the subject of ten HBO specials beginning in 1994 and continuing through the present, including a “Best of” which highlights several of his interesting cases to demonstrate the value of forensic sciences allied with solid police investigative techniques in homicide investigations.


http://www.educationforensic.com/adviso ... aden.html#
You are incorrect. Just because my late father worked on a few cases with Dr. Wecht does not mean that I am biased. Dr. Wecht is a well respecgted professional by many idividuals, which is more than I can say for Dr. Dina Shacknai (who claims to be a certified psychologist but isn't)........IMO, I would not allow my children to be anywhere near her.
 
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