Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #2

[Verboten]

Feeling deeply for Mary right now. She looks terribly tired and raw. They put her on the Crime & Jusice show & then bsically take the defenses side, making her answer questions that have bee answered thousands of times in the last six years. Why do that to somebody and ignore everything that mitigates on the other side?? Makes me ill. Sending love out to the family. <3

 

[cynic]

Good interview with Caitlin Rother…

Caitlin said the judge noted the following in her ruling on the motion for nonsuit.
Adam said, “Hung herself in the guest house.”
Adam was at the scene
Adam said he loosened the wrist bindings. This goes strongly against the SDSO view that Rebecca would have been able to slip in and out of the bindings

[video=youtube;QRF23ig_Eig]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&amp;v=QRF23ig_Eig[/video]

 

[Betty P]

Good interview with Caitlin Rother…

Caitlin said the judge noted the following in her ruling on the motion for nonsuit.
Adam said, “Hung herself in the guest house.”
Adam was at the scene
Adam said he loosened the wrist bindings. This goes strongly against the SDSO view that Rebecca would have been able to slip in and out of the bindings

[video=youtube;QRF23ig_Eig]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=QRF23ig_Eig[/video]

Great interview Caitlyn! Very interesting that the criminologists statements are conflicting with the reports of SDSO about the murder scene and evidence. Not surprising, really.

Also very good news that the judge decided to point out the discrepancy between Adam's testimony about the tightness of the bindings on Rebecca's wrists. That will stick in the minds of the jury.

 

[Imp]

Feeling deeply for Mary right now. She looks terribly tired and raw. They put her on the Crime & Jusice show & then bsically take the defenses side, making her answer questions that have bee answered thousands of times in the last six years. Why do that to somebody and ignore everything that mitigates on the other side?? Makes me ill. Sending love out to the family. <3

My heart aches for Mary, her mom, and the rest of those who loved Rebecca. Most families of murder victims don't have to fight the "good guys" right along with the bad guys. I can't even imagine what they've been through and continue to endure.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Good interview with Caitlin Rother&#8230;

Caitlin said the judge noted the following in her ruling on the motion for nonsuit.
Adam said, &#8220;Hung herself in the guest house.&#8221;
Adam was at the scene
Adam said he loosened the wrist bindings. This goes strongly against the SDSO view that Rebecca would have been able to slip in and out of the bindings

[video=youtube;QRF23ig_Eig]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=8&v=QRF23ig_Eig[/video]

A bit of an aside. I saw most of this on TV. I got really angry at the thing at the bottom saying "Rebecca Nahau Trial."

It wasn't the "Danielle van Dam Trial," it was the "David Westerfield Trial."
It wasn't the "Nicole Brown Simpson Trial," it was the "OJ Simpson Trial."

Rebecca is not on trial here. It should be "Adam Shacknai Trial."

 

[Imp]

From the Caitlin Rother interview/video above ~ she says the criminalist and the forensic tech on the stand today not only contradicted some of the testimony of the detectives, but also each other. Why am I not surprised?

 

[cynic]

Hi Cynic!

Yes, I thought it was rather an odd suggestion at the time too ( the defense attorney suggested this Mark was a ‘rope burn’ and Dr W said that it could possibly be a rope burn’. (He had put a photo on the screen and used the pointer to show it. The image shown was of RZ autopsy and the picture he used is actually in an exhibit in the filings (I beleive I had seen this photo he used previously - it is in the defenses motion to disallow the testimony of Dr W, if you have access to it - labeled EXHIBIT 22 - in ROA 886 ( face down hair lifted and the mark is visible on the left upper shoulder area - it was a zoomed in aspect of this exhibit photo I believe ))

Dr W was absolutely adamant that it could not have been caused during the actual ‘ hanging’ as the position of the mark was completely contradictory to the rope alignment on the throat - and it was ‘not possible’ to have been caused during the hanging in his opinion. The attorney attempted several times to make the same suggestion ( in different ways) and each time it was dismissed by Dr W.

Hope that helps? ( BIM I’m paraphrazing to the best of my recollection)
[snipped]

Hi Lezah,
This is even more desperate and preposterous than I thought.
How can the defense hope to convince any rational, clear-thinking person with this argument?
In order for there to be a rope burn, the noose would have needed to be tightened and started to travel upward from a position nearly resting on the shoulder. The angled surface of the trapezius would make that impossible. You don’t need to be a forensic pathologist to know that, you simply need to have common sense.
The illustration below highlights the injury depicted in the autopsy photo. Curiously, I cannot find anything noted in the autopsy report relating to whatever this is.

 

[OverthinksIt]

From today's San Diego Union Tribune:

"While Greer presented evidence that the only blood present was from Zahau’s menstrual flow, Williams noted that a small wound on one of Zahau’s middle fingers was oozing blood.

“I believe it would explain the blood on the handle, she said."

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-shacknai-ruling-20180320-story.html

Anybody have any thoughts or background on this? Anyone in the courtroom have an opinion about how this exchange played out? Was Greer able to counter it effectively?

Thank you!

 

[Truthy]

Interesting fact: Ted Bundy married his then girlfriend by turning to her in court and saying whatever was legally allowed for him to marry her right there on the spot. Looking forward to hearing more about Adam addressing HIS gf in court. Something’s up with that.

Lawyers know that juries are kinder to men in a stable relationship and make assumptions on those who are not. The serial drunk driver who ploughed down my two sisters delayed his case long enough to find a wife and get her pregnant so she’d be able to take it to trial- and milk it for all they were worth.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Imp]

Really hoping for the opposite of a Casey Anthony jury in this case.

 

[justice be served]

Lawyers know that juries are kinder to men in a stable relationship and make assumptions on those who are not. The serial drunk driver who ploughed down my two sisters delayed his case long enough to find a wife and get her pregnant so she’d be able to take it to trial- and milk it for all they were worth.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I am so sorry to hear your real life experience. Thank you for sharing it and I don’t doubt that you are right.

 

[cynic]

From today's San Diego Union Tribune:

"While Greer presented evidence that the only blood present was from Zahau’s menstrual flow, Williams noted that a small wound on one of Zahau’s middle fingers was oozing blood.

“I believe it would explain the blood on the handle, she said."

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/news/courts/sd-me-shacknai-ruling-20180320-story.html

Anybody have any thoughts or background on this? Anyone in the courtroom have an opinion about how this exchange played out? Was Greer able to counter it effectively?

Thank you!

Rebecca had no cuts on her hands. She did have some abrasions, and some dried blood on the right hand was noted in the autopsy report.
It’s very unlikely that the abrasions described would have deposited enough blood to account for what was found on the handle of the knife.
Also, it’s unknown when those abrasions occurred. They may have occurred post-mortem.

Details from the autopsy report below:
On the posterior aspect of the radial right hand, there are four red abrasions ranging from punctate to 1/16 inch in diameter. On the medial aspect of the right third &#64257;nger (the surface between the third and fourth &#64257;nger), over the distal portion of the middle phalanx, there is a 1/2 x 5/16 inch abrasion with skin tags on the palmar edge.
On the posterior aspect of the middle phalanx of the left 3rd &#64257;nger there is a horizontally oriented, 1/8 inch, linear abrasion.
There is a small amount of dried blood on the posterior right 3rd &#64257;nger and on the posterolateral aspect of the mid-right 4th &#64257;nger and distal right 4th &#64257;nger.

 

[Harmony 2]

The "victim friendly" rule extends to the family members of victims and suspects. Sleuthing family members, friends, and others who have not been designated as suspects is not allowed. Don't make random accusations, suggest their involvement, nor bash and attack them. Posting their personal information, including names, addresses, and background data -- even if it is public -- is not allowed.
https://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?65798-Etiquette-amp-Information

The only one on trial is Adam Shacknai. Tricia has posted, a couple of times, that we are not allowed to make random accusations against others yet I continue to see other's accused and random theories about family members. Continuing to post in this manner may result in the loss of posting privileges.

 

[Lezah]

Lezah: Thanks for your in-person coverage! I did hear testimony confirming Pfingst attempting contact with AS but not where JS assisting AS financially (along with insurance). Where and/or at what point was that confirmed?

I recall a suit previously filed in TN by AS vs Traverlers Ins.-- most likely for attorney fees, but there is no insurance coverage for murder.

Hello, I’m sorry I’ve not been very well today so I’ve not been online.

These matters ( in the quote) came out in Mr Greer’s examination of AS on the stand. Mr G directly asked AS if his brother was helping him with the case, and his answer was yes, “as he has always helped me in my life, along with an insurance policy” ( words to that effect). The aspect regarding the particular defense attorney came out in cross examination of AS by Mr Greer. The defense spent quite a lot of time on the fact AS voluntarily gave hair, DNA, fingerprints etc voluntarily and also did not request a lawyer when being questioned by police. Greer brought up the attorney I mentioned previously - and the fact he was in contact with AS. However AS told Mr G that he to,d the lawyer he ‘did not need an attorney’ and told Greer he did not know who had contacted the lawyer on his behalf.


Hope this is helpful&#128522;

 

[Seattle1]

Feeling deeply for Mary right now. She looks terribly tired and raw. They put her on the Crime & Jusice show & then bsically take the defenses side, making her answer questions that have bee answered thousands of times in the last six years. Why do that to somebody and ignore everything that mitigates on the other side?? Makes me ill. Sending love out to the family. <3

Which crime show was Mary on? Is it online and/or link available? TIA

 

[Seattle1]

Hello, I&#8217;m sorry I&#8217;ve not been very well today so I&#8217;ve not been online.

These facts ( in the quote) came out in Mr Greer&#8217;s examination of AS on the stand. Mr G directly asked AS if his brother was helping him with the case, and his answer was yes, &#8220;as he has always helped me in my life, along with an insurance policy&#8221; ( words to that effect). The aspect regarding the particular defense attorney came out in cross examination of AS by Mr Greer. The defense spent quite a lot of time on the fact AS voluntarily gave hair, DNA, fingerprints etc voluntarily and also did not request a lawyer when being questioned by police. Greer brought up the attorney I mentioned previously - and the fact he was in contact with AS. However AS told Mr G that he to,d the lawyer he &#8216;did not need an attorney&#8217; and told Greer he did not know who had contacted the lawyer on his behalf.

Hope that is helpful&#55357;&#56842;

Lezah - sorry you're unwell. Thanks for update, and another court viewer also helped clarify in your absence.

I am glad to know the jury heard that AS is receiving financial aid from JS. JS obviously is not on trial here but I wonder if any jurors are aware of AS brother's mega-wealth?

Get well soon!

 

[Lezah]

Which crime show was Mary on? Is it online and/or link available? TIA

Poor Mary. She looked exhausted in court yesterday. I felt so badly for her hearing that 911 over and over. Seeing those photos of her sisters body on the grass. Heartbreaking.

I have to say, the courtroom was very warm, stuffy, and was crowded. It’s an oppressive atmosphere and the tension in the room is tangible. I felt poorly yesterday when I got home and I’ve only done a few days of it. I can’t imagine how Mary is feeling. I’m keeping her in my prayers along with Rebecca and Max too.

Hope to feel better soon so I can get posting....&#128149;

 

[Lezah]

Lezah - sorry you're unwell. Thanks for update, and another court viewer also helped clarify in your absence.

I am glad to know the jury heard that AS is receiving financial aid from JS. JS obviously is not on trial here but I wonder if any jurors are aware of AS brother's mega-wealth?

Get well soon!

Thanks so much &#10084;&#65039;

 

[Lezah]

Rebecca had no cuts on her hands. She did have some abrasions, and some dried blood on the right hand was noted in the autopsy report.
It’s very unlikely that the abrasions described would have deposited enough blood to account for what was found on the handle of the knife.
Also, it’s unknown when those abrasions occurred. They may have occurred post-mortem.

Details from the autopsy report below:
On the posterior aspect of the radial right hand, there are four red abrasions ranging from punctate to 1/16 inch in diameter. On the medial aspect of the right third &#64257;nger (the surface between the third and fourth &#64257;nger), over the distal portion of the middle phalanx, there is a 1/2 x 5/16 inch abrasion with skin tags on the palmar edge.
On the posterior aspect of the middle phalanx of the left 3rd &#64257;nger there is a horizontally oriented, 1/8 inch, linear abrasion.
There is a small amount of dried blood on the posterior right 3rd &#64257;nger and on the posterolateral aspect of the mid-right 4th &#64257;nger and distal right 4th &#64257;nger.

Thanks cynic - after seeing the photos of the knife in the trial there is no way I could possibly believe that tiny finger cut could account for so much blood on the knife.( or even a large finger cut for that matter!) It actually sounds quite ridiculous for the witness to suggest it...

 

[Lezah]

Great interview Caitlyn! Very interesting that the criminologists statements are conflicting with the reports of SDSO about the murder scene and evidence. Not surprising, really.

Also very good news that the judge decided to point out the discrepancy between Adam's testimony about the tightness of the bindings on Rebecca's wrists. That will stick in the minds of the jury.

Hi Betty, my understanding is that the jury would not be present during the motion discussions....so they would not have heard the judges comments...