Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #2

DNA Solves
DNA Solves
DNA Solves
Status
Not open for further replies.
I think it's an excellent point & extremely important question for M.E.!!!! I'm so glad you emailed Keith Greer, because I do think it's important it be on his list, if it's not already. I've heard some mention of being able to "break" rigor in early stages, but it still makes no sense for her knees to be bent in that fashion. I don't think it's possible to break rigor to CAUSE her knees to bend when they were not already bent and see no reason that would be done. I agree, I think based on Adam's testimony, her legs should have been straight when she was laid out on the ground.
Hi Verboten,

Rigor can be broken. But it can't be what happened here because her feet were the same distance from her hands as the rope when the ends were put together, so if they were straight and then broken to a bend at the hips and knees, how did they end up at that matching distance?

Do you see what I mean?
 
Hi Verboten,

Rigor can be broken. But it can't be what happened here because her feet were the same distance from her hands as the rope when the ends were put together, so if they were straight and then broken to a bend at the hips and knees, how did they end up at that matching distance?

Do you see what I mean?

I do, indeed. Very important.
 
Tortoise, you make a very valid point, and I’m happy you emailed Mr. Greer about it. It’s a very important question, IMO.
 
As abhorrent and inexcusable as it was that Rebecca's body was not shielded from the elements and the watchers and helicopters, there may be one thing to be grateful for and that is those aerial photos taken long before the ME got there. No amount of money can make those disappear. There cannot be a cover up of this evidence. I hope the photos are in evidence in the civil trial.

When Wecht examined her body she would have been laid out straight. The ME would have oddly had to discount the photos of her position and the rope length to conclude it was suicide.

I hope Mr Greer can at least get him to say that hogtie cannot be ruled out at a minimum, and that it would explain her position.
 
And weren't the neighbor's kids climbing on their roofs :blushing:to take a look as well? I don't have a link but I seem to remember something like that.

It was beyond inexcusable.

BBM - Hey :wave: IzzyBlanche

Snip-

Prchal, 15, a Brophy College Preparatory sophomore from Scottsdale, is vacationing in Coronado at a house just three doors down from the Spreckels Mansion. On Wednesday, he and his friends stood on their roof and looked down into the mansion's courtyard at Zahau's nude body.

"We saw the body from the roof," Prchal said Friday, adding that the image was disturbing but hard to look away from. "Definitely."

http://archive.azcentral.com/arizon...ead-woman-coronado-mystery.html#ixzz5AlnD5Z7C

Snip-

News helicopters were soon flying over the scene. A neighbor two doors down with a taller house and a view of the courtyard from his roof deck was inviting neighbors up to look at and photograph Zahau’s body, lying uncovered on the grass. It wasn’t long before the grainy pictures of the scene surfaced on the Internet. Recreational criminologists analyzed every detail, from the position of her body to the color of the rope bindings. Was the bent leg significant? Perhaps she had thrown herself over the balcony and broken her hip in the fall. Sheriff Gore advised the media that due to “the bizarre circumstances of this incident,” time would be needed to determine whether Zahau’s demise was “a criminal matter or a death investigation.” Translation: was it homicide or suicide?

http://www.newsweek.com/what-really-happened-coronado-mansion-67411



 
This isn't an answer to your question, but just to say there's always been a degree of murkiness around who was at the hospital when, and where they were when they weren't at the hospital. Could be entirely innocent, but because the investigators were so protective and not forthcoming, it raised a lot of suspicions, imo.

I accept that Jonah spent the night at the RMcD House, and I'm not accusing Dina of anything as I do not think she had anything to do with Rebecca's murder, I'm just curious if she also stayed overnight at the RMcD House? I'm wondering if any locals know how long it would take in mins aprx to drive from the hospital to the mansion? Inparadise said it was about 11.5 miles, which isn't very far, but if the area is known for heavy traffic and such it could be 20 mins? Does anybody know?
 
I woke up that morning hearing helicopters, but didn’t think much about it. My husband and I frequently walk along the beach, as we did that day, and we saw many San Diego Sheriff vehicles, Coronado PD vehicles, all the local news media vehicles.........there was a group of young teenage boys on the rooftop deck a couple doors down from Spreckels. They seemed to be in very festive mood, and called to my husband and I to come up and join the party to look at the corpse. I knew that the house was owned by a family from Paradise Valley AZ as a vacation home. I know their name, but will not disclose it. The parents of these young men should be very ashamed of their children........but having lived in Paradise Valley, AZ, I doubt they are/were.

THIS ⬆️ :gaah:

Would not have happened if SDSO/ME would have covered Rebecca’s body with a tent and secured the scene instead of leaving her nude body exposed for 12 plus hours. Unacceptable!
 
THIS ⬆️ would not have happened if SDSO/ME would have covered Rebecca’s body with at tent and secured the scene instead of leaving her nude body exposed for 12 plus hours. Unacceptable!

The event was all over the news, so I guess nobody ever asked the untouchable Jonah why he didn't call Gore or SOMEONE and demand his live in girlfriend at least be covered? After all, there was evidently time to call a hot shot lawyer who visited the scene that day.
 
JS changed story about Rebecca tying knots. I also find it suspect that he would mention a knife at the hospital when explaining to DS about Rebecca’s “sucide” by Asian honor when in reality there were knives at the crime scene.
 
Thanks, Coastal, for the summary of the podcast. I can round out the list of what they stated regarding the judge's notes. The judge rejected nonsuit dismissal for wrongful death and battery, with the following notes:

—Front door & kitchen door unlocked
—Guesthouse not secured for 3 hours
—Search warrant not served until 6:30pm
—While the knots are simple, picking the right knot is important
—Women’s underwear found in guesthouse
—911: Adam says, "I got a girl hung herself in guesthouse”
—Eyewitnesses (emergency responders, etc) connect Adam to scene & he places himself there.
—AS acknowledged he loosened rope to take Rebecca's pulse, but his DNA not on rope

Also, Caitlin wonders aloud if plaintiff can call rebuttal witnesses in civil trial. Yes, they can:
http://www.lawfirms.com/resources/lawsuits-and-disputes/litigation/civil-trial-process.htm According to this, plaintiff also gets a rebuttal closing statement (ie: the last word!).

I was very surprised that in this almost 1 hour discussion, it is not mentioned that Greer did a wonderful job at impugning witness Jonah S. by showing that he both changed his story regarding Rebecca's association with knot tying from the time of his deposition and also made implications that didn't line up with the realities. Jonah said he'd never seen her tie anything but her shoelaces in his deposition, but now has added she ties up his boat. Not only is that a change in story, but it turns out there are ZERO knots involved in securing the boat, which Greer had shown by way of live demonstration from Jonah himself. Greer then went picture by picture with every knot binding Rebecca, asking if he'd ever seen her tie a knot like this one? No. Like this one? No. I felt this was hugely significant, but not mentioned in Caitlin's wrap up.

With regards to the outline of DNA witnesses this week, I have the following questions that I hope will be focused on by Greer with rebuttal witnesses, if they were not already handled in cross:
1. Witnesses are said to have testified that Adam's DNA is specifically EXCLUDED on all key items at the scene. For years, LE has stated there was NO other DNA at scene or DNA with samples too small. Those samples were soooo small that no DNA was collected from other POIs (Dina, Nina, Jonah) because it would be futile. How do you specifically EXCLUDE Adam on non existent or too small to be tested DNA...???
2. LE used lack of other DNA as a rationale for their suicide determination, but their own experts state over and over many reasons someone might not leave behind DNA--non-shedder, specific surfaces, just washed hands. This seems a contradiction to me, are they not right there making the strong case that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence? Thus, zero basis to conclude suicide due to DNA evidence...

Hope Greer has or will introduce the underwear in the guesthouse and point out the "in the guesthouse" 911 comment, per judge's interest in these items as bolstering plaintiff's case. I think he's gotten to all the other points she made, meaning he can bring them into his closing argument.

I agree with all these points and they are very important. I'm glad the judge is focusing on them.

As for Caitlin, she's doing a good job, but I was somewhat surprised that she didn't know about the process of using superglue to detect fingerprints on evidence. That's also why I dismiss her concerns about lack of enough epithelial DNA on the knife handle. It's obvious the superglue and fingerprint powder resulted in a flawed analysis from the sample.

Also important is the fact that exposure of RZ's body to sunlight for over 12 hrs degraded the DNA present on her body and other evidence (ropes, gag, etc.) Combined with Adam likely wearing gloves, this explains a lot, including the reason she was left exposed for so long.

Re Jonah speaking so softly during the trial and demeanor that doesn't match his personality: Prominent people take professional acting lessons these days, from politicians to business leaders. Jonah's had over 6 years to prepare for his testimony. He's an experienced actor. Given his past work and personal history (domestic abuse, serial cheating, etc), he shows signs of sociopathic behavior and sociopaths are very good actors. Many wealthy, successful business executives display these traits.

"Gaslighting" of Rebecca: It's surprising anyone thinks rehashing of her previous shoplifting charge is relevant to this trial. Ditto for the unsubstantiated remarks to make her seem emotionally unstable. Evidence has clearly shown she was murdered.

What is the point in trying to impugn her reputation? We've seen the character assassination attempts of RZ often over the years: She's unstable, she's from a foreign country, she was sexually abused, she was religious, she wasn't religious, etc. As many here determined years ago, the message sent by the S & R families is plain: "she deserved to die". They believe she deserved to die and they want the public to think that. Every time they send these messages they're revealing their motive for killing her: "she deserved it". They're wrong about that. Rebecca was an innocent person and didn't deserve to be murdered in such a brutal way.

Front door and kitchen door unlocked: RZ would not have left them unlocked, especially not both. Guest house unlocked for hours: Why? Gross incompetence by LE. Was Adam's luggage searched? Where was he and what was he doing in those hours after RZ's body was discovered? How much evidence was destroyed, hidden or tossed away?

There's more, but I think everyone else here is covering it.

ETA: Also surprised that Caitlin was critical of the Z family for exhuming her body for a second autopsy and interfering with the chain of custody. The Z family didn't have a choice. They appealed in numerous ways to have the case re-opened, but were refused at every turn. Had they not arranged for a private exhumation and second autopsy, this trial would not be taking place today. So, what's the motive behind criticizing them for doing what they had to do?
 
JS changed story about Rebecca tying knots. I also find it suspect that he would mention a knife at the hospital when explaining to DS about Rebecca’s “sucide” by Asian honor when in reality there were knives at the crime scene.

Good point about the knives at the crime scene! JS changed his story about tying the knots, why couldn’t he change the story about what DS said happened at the hospital? JS also tends to have a habit of using the word Asian, imo.

Snip-
When Jonah Shacknai told friends he was dating an Asian princess, they thought he was exaggerating. But apparently Zahau’s family had status. She told friends that her grandfather was chief of the Zahau tribe. Both her grandfather and her father, now known as Robert Zahau, were freedom fighters, opposed to the military regime’s systematic ethnic cleansing through forced labor, forced migration, rape, and religious persecution (especially of the many Chins, who were converted to Christianity by American missionaries in the 19th century). Her childhood seems to have been one of continual loss and displacement. In Rebecca’s rendition, at some point in her youth her father was a political prisoner and absent for six years.

http://www.newsweek.com/what-really-happened-coronado-mansion-67411

:daisy: Big hello arielilane!
 
This is me speculating but I don’t believe for one second that JS and AS were ever close. No closeness with his father either. Plain and simple the odd ball. My opinion is that he saw the opportunity for revenge. Very sad for Rebecca ‘s family to have to relive the horrible way she died. They have suffered far too much. Peace and love to the beautiful Zahau family. Justice for Recbeca!
 
I accept that Jonah spent the night at the RMcD House, and I'm not accusing Dina of anything as I do not think she had anything to do with Rebecca's murder, I'm just curious if she also stayed overnight at the RMcD House? I'm wondering if any locals know how long it would take in mins aprx to drive from the hospital to the mansion? Inparadise said it was about 11.5 miles, which isn't very far, but if the area is known for heavy traffic and such it could be 20 mins? Does anybody know?
At non rush hour times, it takes less than 15 minutes door to door. There are cameras at the old toll booth at the foot of the Coronado Bridge, capturing cars entering/departing the island. My guess is that was never looked at.
 
JS changed story about Rebecca tying knots. I also find it suspect that he would mention a knife at the hospital when explaining to DS about Rebecca’s “sucide” by Asian honor when in reality there were knives at the crime scene.

What's the tally now on defendents & defense witnesses changing their stories?

Jonah
Adam
Det. Tsuida

Can anyone add to this list?
 
Another important point for Caitlin and others to consider when mulling over this trial: Adam was only alleged to have taken Ambien the night of the murder. He was never given a blood or urine test to detect the presence of alcohol and drugs in his system. No witnesses ever reported him showing signs of having taken Ambien.

We shouldn't make assumptions about Adam's behavior or memory of that night based on him taking Ambien. JMO, he concocted that story to explain why he slept through the loud music in the house, screams for help and the sounds related to someone allegedly hanging themselves from a balcony just outside his bedroom door. The Ambien helps him establish a false alibi.
 
Going through old articles, does everyone emember the media blackout issued by SDSO investigators?

REBECCA NALEPA – HAS POLICE SECRECY HELPED THE INVESTIGATION?
Snip-
Here, there has been no clear rationale for police not to release, even the transcript, of the 911 call by Adam Shacknai on Wednesday, nor to release the 911 call possibly by Nalepa herself about Max Shacknai on Monday. With no timeline for the media blackout, there are clear questions as to what is prompting police to handle Nalepa’s death this way.
——————-
Snip-
How about Adam Shacknai’s 911 call reporting Rebecca’s death? And what about the female caller, believed to Rebecca herself, reporting the injury of Jonah Shacknai’s son on Monday? Neither 911 tape has been released to news. Nor have the transcripts been released.

San Diego County sheriff’s investigators last week told that the case will remain on media blackout for the short term. But how long? Investigators gave no reason why this case, in particular, warrants so much secrecy.

http://news.lalate.com/2011/07/20/rebecca-nalepa-has-police-secrecy-helped-the-investigation/

 
I accept that Jonah spent the night at the RMcD House, and I'm not accusing Dina of anything as I do not think she had anything to do with Rebecca's murder, I'm just curious if she also stayed overnight at the RMcD House? I'm wondering if any locals know how long it would take in mins aprx to drive from the hospital to the mansion? Inparadise said it was about 11.5 miles, which isn't very far, but if the area is known for heavy traffic and such it could be 20 mins? Does anybody know?

Another important point for Caitlin and others to consider when mulling over this trial: Adam was only alleged to have taken Ambien the night of the murder. He was never given a blood or urine test to detect the presence of alcohol and drugs in his system. No witnesses ever reported him showing signs of having taken Ambien.

We shouldn't make assumptions about Adam's behavior or memory of that night based on him taking Ambien. JMO, he concocted that story to explain why he slept through the loud music in the house, screams for help and the sounds related to someone allegedly hanging themselves from a balcony just outside his bedroom door. The Ambien helps him establish a false alibi.

The windows in the guest house are the original single pane type, which does not block out noise. And there are lots of windows in the guest house. I wonder how many were open that night to allow the ocean breeze to flow through?
 
At non rush hour times, it takes less than 15 minutes door to door. There are cameras at the old toll booth at the foot of the Coronado Bridge, capturing cars entering/departing the island. My guess is that was never looked at.

Thank you. That's about what I was thinking.
 
Hi *Lash* and Betty P!

question for anyone- I’m not sure if I heard correctly, but did AS testify that prior to discovering Rebecca he was going to go to a “charming little coffee shop on Main Street?”
 
I accept that Jonah spent the night at the RMcD House, and I'm not accusing Dina of anything as I do not think she had anything to do with Rebecca's murder, I'm just curious if she also stayed overnight at the RMcD House? I'm wondering if any locals know how long it would take in mins aprx to drive from the hospital to the mansion? Inparadise said it was about 11.5 miles, which isn't very far, but if the area is known for heavy traffic and such it could be 20 mins? Does anybody know?

Hi *Lash* and Betty P!

question for anyone- I’m not sure if I heard correctly, but did AS testify that prior to discovering Rebecca he was going to go to a “charming little coffee shop on Main Street?”

That charming little coffee shop would be on Orange Ave, and would have been The Night And Day Cafe (kind of a dive type diner), Clayton’s (which is also a diner), or Cafe 1134. Besides Starbucks, those would be the only places open at that time of the morning.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Staff online

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
163
Guests online
2,299
Total visitors
2,462

Forum statistics

Threads
602,454
Messages
18,140,759
Members
231,397
Latest member
kmb123
Back
Top