Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #2

[*Lash*]

Jonah Shacknai Hires Sitrick And Company After Son Max Dies

July 21, 2011

www.10news.com/news/coronado-mansion-owner-hires-pr-firm

Snip-

[FONT=&amp]The firm hired by Shacknai is the best PR firm money can buy, with a client list 13 pages long and the founder considered the king of spin.

[FONT=&amp]The firms' clients included Michael Jackson, Paris Hilton and Major League Baseball.[/FONT][/FONT]

Hey Inthedark14 :wave:

JS hired the BEST money can buy - the “king of spin”...as well, the County of San Diego is also a client of the same firm. Listed in the firms website.

 

[Brit]

AS stated to LE that he had taken ambien the night before he found RZ hanging. I’m assuming he would state this to show that he couldn’t have witnessed or heard anything throughout the night as he was knocked out from ambien. Yet in testimony he said that he was laying there waiting for the light to come. That afyer he masturbated and showered, and he wasn’t sure in what order. He called 911 around 6:30, I would assume the masturbation/shower combination would take around an hour......so did he awake at 4:30am for him to have time to masturbate, shower, and lay in bed to wait for the sun to come up? I’m assuming if he takes ambien before bed it is to help him sleep through the night......

 

[*Lash*]

Dr. Pepper in red to separate from OP (Cynic) context.

As Jonah Shacknai's testimony was wrapping up, the camera panned to the defense table; a can of Diet Dr. Pepper was in front of Adam. Things that make you go, hmmmm.........

From the search warrant – three references to a knife. The knife identified as a, “steak knife,” (27) is the description Keith Greer used when discussing the sexual assault.

“One of the most morbid and obscene pieces of evidence in this case, as identified by Forensic Specialist Lisa A. DiMeo, is that a steak knife at the scene was covered with blood on all four sides of the handle, a few inches up… “
Evidence item, "1," in the list below is the knife that I assume was used to cut her down - I have not seen a picture of that.

1. Knife
2. Pair black gloves
3. Paper towel w/red stains
4. Box w/paint supplies
5. Dr. Pepper bottle
6. Clothing
7. Flip camera
8. Basket w/cameras
9. Stain kit
10. Clump of hair
11. Document addressed to Jonah
12. Tissue w/red stain
13. Clothing
14. Hair
15. Receipt for paint supplies
16. Candle
17. Water bottle
18. Bedding
19. 2 red plastic cups
20. Underwear
21. Black latex glove
22. Table
23. Greeting card
24. Paper w/writing
25. Bedding
26. Butcher Knife
27. Steak knife
28. White plastic bag
29. Rope
30. Samsung cell phone
31. Paint brush
32. Stain kit
33. Small paint brush
34. Green & white striped towel
35. Bedroom door
36. Tube of black paint
37. Laptop computer
38. Mac computer
39. Olympus camera
40. Lumix camera
41. Swab kit
42. Swab kit
43. Swab kit
44. DNA swab
45. Print cards

SW- 41227
http://ftpcontent.worldnow.com/kfmb/misc/warrant_41227.pdf

 

[*Lash*]

Asking about the kidnapping testimony sure brought a lot of tense responses...which is strange. The good thing is that everyone can listen to that podcast and decide for themselves on a wide variety of issues.

The majority of posters here do an excellent job of presenting the plaintiffs version of the case. It’s also valuable to balance that with perspectives from other viewpoints. The podcast is one excellent source.

Finally, I found the posts where this "kidnapping" was previously discussed. If you are still interested in reading those, you can find them in the "Evidence revealed during course of wrongful death suit" thread of this forum.

FWIW-

www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?258197-Evidence-revealed-during-the-course-of-the-Wrongful-Death-action&p=13075694&highlight=Kidnapped#post13075694

 

[Brit]

FWIW-

www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?258197-Evidence-revealed-during-the-course-of-the-Wrongful-Death-action&p=13075694&highlight=Kidnapped#post13075694

Hmmmm......this actually is not kidnapping, it is relationship drama. Doesn’t sound like she claimed to be kidnapped at all. She went to police to explain that she went back to ex husband and didn’t tell the ex boyfriend.

 

[Lezah]

AS stated to LE that he had taken ambien the night before he found RZ hanging. I’m assuming he would state this to show that he couldn’t have witnessed or heard anything throughout the night as he was knocked out from ambien. Yet in testimony he said that he was laying there waiting for the light to come. That afyer he masturbated and showered, and he wasn’t sure in what order. He called 911 around 6:30, I would assume the masturbation/shower combination would take around an hour......so did he awake at 4:30am for him to have time to masturbate, shower, and lay in bed to wait for the sun to come up? I’m assuming if he takes ambien before bed it is to help him sleep through the night......

I agree this is all very odd, so many inconsistencies...add also the fact that AS can’t recall if he cut RZ down before or after he called 911...( I still don’t think she was ever hanging from that balcony, that’s why he can’t recall any aspect about it ....)

 

[Brit]

Does anyone know if today’s testimony will be live-streamed?

 

[elfie]

Yes, the call is strange in MANY aspects. Yes, you would at minimum say, my brother's gf" or something. In fact, Adam calls RZ what is practically a term of endearment, Becca, now during the trial -- seven years after her death. But during the call, when his connection to her would have been fresher and more immediate, he calls her a "girl" and NEVER ONCE says her name at all, even when he yells, "Are you alive?" It wasn't, "Rebecca? Are you alive?" etc. And, good point that he says "girl" when she is a grown woman. There is another part while he's doing a bunch of stuff in the background where he says, "*advertiser censored*ing KID." At first I didn't get it, but apparently he was referring to Rebecca. He shows no respect for the victim and distances himself from her.

By attempting to distance himself from Rebecca, Adam displays consciousness of guilt. Also the folksy, “I got a girl”, when he was raised in NY, and graduated from GW.

 

[elfie]

Coastal
According to the evidence tech, sunlight degrades DNA.

I googled the length of time DNA lasts outside exposed to sunlight, etc. Have been looking at some cases where they used DNA off cigarette butts to solve 30 and 40 year old murder cases, etc. The consensus seems to be that it will degrade with time, but am not knowledgeable enough to know what conditions for what length of time would be needed to destroy DNA. The DNA on the rope used to tie her hands was under her body should not be damaged by the sunlight. Seems like DNA which is dried is resilient to degradation, however, the DNA breaks down much faster if things get wet. Wish I had the knowledge to understand this.


Verboten –
2. LE used lack of other DNA as a rationale for their suicide determination, but their own experts state over and over many reasons someone might not leave behind DNA--non-shedder, specific surfaces, just washed hands. This seems a contradiction to me, are they not right there making the strong case that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence? Thus, zero basis to conclude suicide due to DNA evidence...

Safeguarding and protecting the crime scene seem to be very basis police 101 information. How could the police not have been aware of the potential to totally destroy evidence from the crime scene???

Rebecca’s feet were in a “v” shape on the balcony (45° degree angle). He did the drawing of where RZ’s bare footprints were on the balcony. But he stated that there were only toe prints and no heels marks.

If Rebecca hopped onto the balcony with her feet tied together, how did she only leave (left) toe prints.???? The drawing I viewed on line has two right foot toe prints, but no left print was visible. I also recall the officer who testified saying that it was believed to be his boot print on the blacony, but he could not say it was tested by the police. Do we know if the boot print was definitely confirmed to be his?

As far as I remember no forensics were done on the footprints, they were only deemed to be consistent with Rebecca. Another omission by SDSO.

 

[Tortoise]

:jawdrop:

Can someone explain for a dummy what waitaminute's post means

Edit - it's ok, I think I've worked it out. Someone had inside knowledge.

 

[Lezah]

The message on the door...Something for consideration...

I have been pondering the message of the door for some time, and how the message was painted. Something wasn’t quite right about it...

I had made an assumption that the two paint brushes found in the room were used to paint the message, the small one initially, for the thinner, first ‘S’ - the other for the thicker stroke lettering. It was the deposit of the paint in that first letter S that stuck in my mind, something about it.

So, a few days ago I saw in evidence that only ONE brush was actually used, the thick one. The smaller one was unused.

This dawned on me this morning...

We know RZ painted regularly, and had done for some time - and we can therefore confidently assume she was relatively familiar with her artists tools and their basic uses, and limitations. She had several tubes of acrylic paint on her ‘painting room’ shelf ( third floor, upstairs from the ‘hanging’ room)

When looking at the door message again, rather than the smaller brush being used for the beginning of the message as I had first thought, this could not be the case. So what was used?

It now appears to me that it was very likely that it was the PAINT TUBE that was used to paint the first letter - ‘S’

The stroke markings, and the ‘gapping’ in the paint is highly consistent with the tube being used. Imagine trying to use it like a pen. As you squeeze the tube a bit of paint comes out, it ‘blobs’ initially, then ‘thins’ through the stroke of application, the surface eventually becoming empty, here is the blank section...then you squeeze it again...and you go through the same process as you apply more paint ...and so on and so forth.

Basically, it’s difficult, and it doesn’t work. ...and I discovered this very, very early on, when first using acrylic in tube form. You use a vessel or a palette to dispense the paint and take it from there.

IMO only someone very unfamiliar with dispensing paint would assume you could use the tube to paint the message.

The layering of the paint in the remainder of the message also indicates to me that the tube was likely used to apply the paint directly to the brush. The texturing and transition / thickness of the paint would be consistent with this as opposed to the use of a palette.

I would hypothesize that whoever painted the message retrieved a tube of paint from upstairs, ( familiar with the house, knowing where to go to get the paint) they grabbed the tube and commenced trying to write the message on the door. Unfamiliar with handling the paint and unaware of the paints viscosity, it was only after painting the first letter they realized it wasn’t going to work, so the went back to the room upstairs and got a brush, in fact they got two, incase one of them did it work, they didnt want to have to go back again...

IMO I think this is key, it goes to RZ knowledge and familiarity of the paint.

She knew more about acrylic than she did about knots....

 

[Lezah]

Thankyou so much tortoise and Betty p. For helping me with my ‘quote’ issue...I will try it.

 

[Lezah]

Hmmmm......this actually is not kidnapping, it is relationship drama. Doesn’t sound like she claimed to be kidnapped at all. She went to police to explain that she went back to ex husband and didn’t tell the ex boyfriend.

I do recall this was brought up in court during testimony a few times when I was present, and to be honest, it was a bit of a ‘nothing burger’ ... it all seemed a bit vague and ambiguous - and ultimately, I think the whole intimation re a potential ‘prior kidnapping’ scenario completely washed over the jury.

I know it did for me...

 

[elfie]

JMO, Jonah knew what happened to Rebecca that night, before Adam even called 911. I'd be willing to bet he called his attorneys before then, too. I've always assumed Jonah's attorney (possibly Pfingst) gave Adam instructions on how to clean up the crime scene, stage the discovery of her body and scripted his call to 911. Would Adam have known on his own to use dryer sheets to wipe down surfaces to get rid of fingerprints? Probably not.

Thank goodness lividity and rigor indicate all was not as it appeared or as it was described & concluded by SDSO.

 

[Lezah]

By attempting to distance himself from Rebecca, Adam displays consciousness of guilt. Also the folksy, “I got a girl”, when he was raised in NY, and graduated from GW.

I totally agree. Distancing language. He actually sounds to me like he is saying ‘ got a girl...’ not ‘ I got a girl...’ so he can’t even bring himself to say ‘I’...!

Plus, more information than is required. Saying ‘I just woke up’ is irrelevant, it’s too much information, added on, IMO designed to introduce an alibi.

 

[Verboten]

Thankyou so much tortoise and Betty p. For helping me with my ‘quote’ issue...I will try it.

I'm so sorry that I am haunting you in your efforts to post ... :-D Lol. I've never had that issue, so I'm glad some others have suggestions to offer. Hopefully, logging out & logging back in removes it for good.

 

[elfie]

The message on the door...Something for consideration...

I have been pondering the message of the door for some time, and how the message was painted. Something wasn’t quite right about it...

I had made an assumption that the two paint brushes found in the room were used to paint the message, the small one initially, for the thinner, first ‘S’ - the other for the thicker stroke lettering. It was the deposit of the paint in that first letter S that stuck in my mind, something about it.

So, a few days ago I saw in evidence that only ONE brush was actually used, the thick one. The smaller one was unused.

This dawned on me this morning...

We know RZ painted regularly, and had done for some time - and we can therefore confidently assume she was relatively familiar with her artists tools and their basic uses, and limitations. She had several tubes of acrylic paint on her ‘painting room’ shelf ( third floor, upstairs from the ‘hanging’ room)

When looking at the door message again, rather than the smaller brush being used for the beginning of the message as I had first thought, this could not be the case. So what was used?

It now appears to me that it was very likely that it was the PAINT TUBE that was used to paint the first letter - ‘S’

The stroke markings, and the ‘gapping’ in the paint is highly consistent with the tube being used. Imagine trying to use it like a pen. As you squeeze the tube a bit of paint comes out, it ‘blobs’ initially, then ‘thins’ through the stroke of application, the surface eventually becoming empty, here is the blank section...then you squeeze it again...and you go through the same process as you apply more paint ...and so on and so forth.

Basically, it’s difficult, and it doesn’t work. ...and I discovered this very, very early on, when first using acrylic in tube form. You use a vessel or a palette to dispense the paint and take it from there.

IMO only someone very unfamiliar with dispensing paint would assume you could use the tube to paint the message.

The layering of the paint in the remainder of the message also indicates to me that the tube was likely used to apply the paint directly to the brush. The texturing and transition / thickness of the paint would be consistent with this as opposed to the use of a palette.

I would hypothesize that whoever painted the message retrieved a tube of paint from upstairs, ( familiar with the house, knowing where to go to get the paint) they grabbed the tube and commenced trying to write the message on the door. Unfamiliar with handling the paint and unaware of the paints viscosity, it was only after painting the first letter they realized it wasn’t going to work, so the went back to the room upstairs and got a brush, in fact they got two, incase one of them did it work, they didnt want to have to go back again...

IMO I think this is key, it goes to RZ knowledge and familiarity of the paint.

She knew more about acrylic than she did about knots....

Great points! That would explain the splotchiness of the first S!

 

[Lezah]

This has happened to me before. It drove me crazy! I would have to log out and log back in.

Thankyou, will try this too!

 

[Verboten]

I totally agree. Distancing language. He actually sounds to me like he is saying ‘ got a girl...’ not ‘ I got a girl...’ so he can’t even bring himself to say ‘I’...!

Plus, more information than is required. Saying ‘I just woke up’ is irrelevant, it’s too much information, added on, IMO designed to introduce an alibi.

Definitely distancing language. I thought I heard the "I" which actually is just more evidence of likely guilt (as you know). I'll have to listen again. The extraneous information is certainly an early effort to establish alibi.

 

[Lezah]

Great points! That would explain the splotchiness of the first S!

Splotchiness is the perfect description! You said in one word what took me ten!