Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #2

[Tortoise]

Why would she bind her own feet? Suicide proponents never address that.

 

[stmarysmead]

The re-enactment failed on several accounts. Because of the position of her legs in rigor it supports evidence given by Philpott that she was hogtied. The bindings were tight, they left marks. Once the line between Rebecca's ankles and wrists were cut, they loosened up. The re-enactment fails to address how little the dust on the railing was disturbed. Rebecca's center of gravity was too low with respect to the height of the railing to go over bound (even if the hog tie is ignored). This was explained through expert testimony in court.

Yes, I know this was the testimony of the plaintiffs expert. It’s a matter of opinion which expert is correct. But I appreciate you explaining the plaintiff position to me again.

 

[elfie]

Yes, I know this was the testimony of the plaintiffs expert. It’s a matter of opinion which expert is correct. But I appreciate you explaining the plaintiff position to me again.

It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of physics, the laws of which cannot be disobeyed.

 

[Tortoise]

It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of physics, the laws of which cannot be disobeyed.

Yes, and objectivity.

 

[BBL]

Yes, I know this was the testimony of the plaintiffs expert. It’s a matter of opinion which expert is correct. But I appreciate you explaining the plaintiff position to me again.

Respectfully, how do you reconcile the SDSO demonstration stating the hand knots were loose with AS stating he had to force his fingers under the hand knots to loosen them to check for a pulse?

Also, I think it is fair to say the SDSO reenactment is also interpretation. One, IMO, that is highly flawed. Too many assumptions and things left unexplained (for example, gag tightly tied around her throat and stuffed in mouth, tied feet coupled with no "shuffle marks" on the carpet, barely any disturbance on the balcony and the low center of gravity that Rebecca). Also, if her back is scrapped up because of the bushes... how can the back is scraped up under her arms? Her arms tied behind her back would have protected her back from those bushes. Finally, if she dropped hard enough to swing into bushes and cause cuts, then she should have been nearly decapitated (sorry).

These are the bits and pieces that have me shaking my head that one could consider this suicide. The rest just piles on, IMO, adding credence to this being murder.

 

[Tortoise]

Ah well fftobed:

I look forward to reading an update in the morning. It's half past midnight here.

 

[Verboten]

IMO another very large discrepancy is the knots and how tightly they were tied. To believe the SDSO reenactment, you would have to agree that the knot tying her hands behind her back were loose. They explained that she tied the knots in front first, took her hands out and put them in the same loose knot behind her back.

Enter As who says he had to work to loosen the knots to get his fingers under them to try to feel for a pulse.

Doesn't add up to me. Who's not telling the truth?

eta: sorry for the redundancy Verboten, I think we must have been posting our comments at the same time

Yep. I saw we pretty much were posting a similar comment at the same time.

 

[Verboten]

Why would she bind her own feet? Suicide proponents never address that.

Absolutely, Tortoise. Nor did the SDSO address that with a full reenactment to show how she bound her feet as tightly as they were found, and left the specific prints and dust marks on the balcony with her feet bound (apparently not even a heel print, per SDSO's own witness who processed that part of the scene). Why didn't they reenact the full thing? Because they could not. MOO and all that...

 

[Lolliknows]

Another piece of information that was totally u unnecessary sonmyst have had a purpose. Hmmm IMO

 

[kathyn2]

I live in the San Diego area and was just watching the news. It seems that the defense is putting holes in the plaintiffs case. At least that’s how our local channel 8 news portrays it. They showed the knot expert today tying the hands in front of and behind his back showing that RZ could have done this. The way it was reported was harmful to the case in my opinion as I always thought it was next to impossible. Anyone there in person that thought this testimony less harmful than it appears?

 

[Betty P]

I live in the San Diego area and was just watching the news. It seems that the defense is putting holes in the plaintiffs case. At least that’s how our local channel 8 news portrays it. They showed the knot expert today tying the hands in front of and behind his back showing that RZ could have done this. The way it was reported was harmful to the case in my opinion as I always thought it was next to impossible. Anyone there in person that thought this testimony less harmful than it appears?

It's been done before by the SD Sheriff's office back at the beginning of the investigation. They admitted their model had to practice at least 6 times to get it right. The knots were also loose in the demonstration. Rebecca's were tight on her wrists, as Adam recently testified, which would have made it impossible for RZ to do.

Here's a link to the local newspaper

http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...eath-rebecca-zahau-20180326-photogallery.html

 

[Verboten]

It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of physics, the laws of which cannot be disobeyed.

Yes, and objectivity.

Yes, and the defendant's own testimony!

 

[Imp]

I too live in this town and agree entirely. From day one I was puzzled by why--- at that address---
a naked dead woman was left for hours on the ground as her image was broadcast. The minute I saw P. Pfingst's image on the scene I knew that in one way or another the fix was in. Who could argue that he was not shown more consideration than the victim? So, it troubles me to see on this forum that some find it more important to question the acts and motives of the dead, Rebecca Z., than those in her sphere on her last day, and those that benefit from the disregard.

^^This.

 

[bourne]

It's not a matter of opinion, it's a matter of physics, the laws of which cannot be disobeyed.

THIS deserves to be reiterated. Excellent valid points!

 

[Verboten]

I too live in this town and agree entirely. From day one I was puzzled by why--- at that address---
a naked dead woman was left for hours on the ground as her image was broadcast. The minute I saw P. Pfingst's image on the scene I knew that in one way or another the fix was in. Who could argue that he was not shown more consideration than the victim? So, it troubles me to see on this forum that some find it more important to question the acts and motives of the dead, Rebecca Z., than those in her sphere on her last day, and those that benefit from the disregard.

Beautifully said. Thank you.

 

[bourne]

The re-enactment failed on several accounts. Because of the position of her legs in rigor it supports evidence given by Philpott that she was hogtied. The bindings were tight, they left marks. Once the line between Rebecca's ankles and wrists were cut, they loosened up. The re-enactment fails to address how little the dust on the railing was disturbed. Rebecca's center of gravity was too low with respect to the height of the railing to go over bound (even if the hog tie is ignored). This was explained through expert testimony in court.

Elfie is on a roll! THIS also deserves reiteration.

Excellent points.

Defense arguments about the bindings being "loose" make ZERO sense given what Adam the defendant himself said about how he couldn't even fit a single finger underneath the ropes to find her pulse! If he couldn't fit a finger under, it means the bindings was TIGHT as HECK. Hence Adam was the one who loosened the bindings.

How would a petite tiny woman barely 100 pounds fly off the balcony railing without disturbing any dust while being hogtied and her hands tied behind her back and ankles bound tight and noose around neck and t-shirt wound multiple times around her tiny neck and stuffed down her throat? Defense and pro-suicide posters' claims are entirely hogwash. (pun so intended). LOL

 

[Imp]

Absolutely, Tortoise. Nor did the SDSO address that with a full reenactment to show how she bound her feet as tightly as they were found, and left the specific prints and dust marks on the balcony with her feet bound (apparently not even a heel print, per SDSO's own witness who processed that part of the scene). Why didn't they reenact the full thing? Because they could not. MOO and all that...

IIRC, the reenactment neglected to show the pieces of (cut) rope found attached to the bindings at both her wrists and ankles. The hogtie rope. I don't think the reenactment captured that rather glaring detail, did it?

 

[bourne]

Adam's arrogant demeanor in court is doing him no favors. Jonah's feigned softspokenness and attempt to besmirch Rebecca also hurt Adam's defense... I've been watching the trial and Adam's going down.<modsnip>

 

[Imp]

I view RZ as having been a normal, average young woman, and as I was once one of those myself (young!), and even now, I try to imagine, were I to become suddenly so overwhelmed by grief or guilt or shame that I decided to kill myself, the last thing I would do would be:

• shower
• strip naked (while menstruating)
• do a little painting on a bedroom door
• wrap a shirt around my neck and stuff the ends into my mouth
• go to the garage for rope, fashion a noose and put that on
• go to the garage for more rope, bind my ankles and wrists and hogtie myself
• move in magical fashion (levitation?) to a balcony railing and put myself over it

Never mind the evidence of murder and the <.00000001% probability she was physically capable of staging such a death scene, imo, good luck finding one woman on planet earth who would do it that way.

 

[clearskies1]

I know experts are expected to testify at trials like this, but really it's basic common sense -- unless you're having raging psychotic hallucinations, you don't strip naked, bind your hands and feet, gag yourself, and somehow then throw yourself over a balcony. No, you don't. The bindings, noose and gag were necessary to "cover up" the markings left by the killer. Even then there were injuries (head blows etc) that could not be covered up by this "suicide". JMO.