Wrongful death trial begins. Trial coverage and discussion #2

[prpladi]

Local Interview from today:

http://www.kusi.com/latest-on-rebecca-zahau-trial-with-caitlin-rother/

 

[Lezah]

Hi Lezah,
This is even more desperate and preposterous than I thought.
How can the defense hope to convince any rational, clear-thinking person with this argument?
In order for there to be a rope burn, the noose would have needed to be tightened and started to travel upward from a position nearly resting on the shoulder. The angled surface of the trapezius would make that impossible. You don’t need to be a forensic pathologist to know that, you simply need to have common sense.
The illustration below highlights the injury depicted in the autopsy photo. Curiously, I cannot find anything noted in the autopsy report relating to whatever this is.

Hi Cynic, you have it perfectly illustrated there, and YES, you’re also bang on the detail re the injury!!.
As you say, it’s, well, daft to suggest this shows this caused the cricoid fracture in the throat. Dr Wecht made his feelings clear on this and you can see why when you look at the image you created. I also agree I couldn’t find it on the autopsy report either...

I saw that a lovely WS member has posted the trial transcripts, but being the dimwit of the team on finding or posting anything other than text, I can’t find it. I would love to see the wording on his response again.

PS Thankyou for the links on the ropes, I will try and look tomorrow when I’m not feeling under the weather. You’re very kind going to all that trouble.

 

[Verboten]

Which crime show was Mary on? Is it online and/or link available? TIA

She was on Crime & Justice with Ashleigh Banfield. I don't know how to find the clip at their website, nor is their any video link I have been able to find to share. I saw the clip posted on Twitter. Just go to the timeline of @CrimeJusticeHLN, scroll past their pinned tweet & you'll see the tweet about Adam taking the stand.

Trigger warning, Ashleigh is quite harsh & has nothing favorable to say about any of the evidence that helps the family. She just says the same crap the defendant has been saying and, imo, it's very disrespectful to Mary to not acknowledge the emotional toll on her, nor to make even the smallest effort to find some balance. I've never seen Mary look worse, both tired & seemingly emotionally drained, and to come on to face more of the same must have been extremely rough. Bless her heart. She is not backing down despite it all. Hope you can find and view the clip.

 

[Seattle1]

Hi Betty, my understanding is that the jury would not be present during the motion discussions....so they would not have heard the judges comments...

From the Judge's reaction to the voluminous motion presented by AS, it was no doubt the finest of legal brief that money can buy!

However, I trust the Judge's factual, on-point comments to this motion were both a morale boost and comfort to RZ plaintiffs. As Mr. Greer crafts his closing argument, no doubt he's emphasizing the very same the Judge offered today.

JUSTICE FOR REBECCA.

 

[Lezah]

Fellow WS members, can I ask your opinions on a theory?

As you know, I have felt for some time the guest house has great significance in the death of RZ. I believe the 911 mention of the guest house by AS as where RZ ‘hung herself’ may well be a parapraxis ( or slip of the tongue) and this is also reinforced by AS during his actual testimony ( and now seemingly also accentuated by the Judge in her ruling on the motion today)

It is a seemingly innocuous mention, relating to a description of the guest house by AS when under cross examination by his defense attorney. It stuck out to me like a big, sore thumb. It is at about 55 minutes into the first set of AS testimony online ( ch8) regarding his description of the guest house, if you would like to see for yourself.

AS is being asked to describe the guest house by his defense, and continues on to explain every single room, up to and including the galley kitchen, then, he stumbles in his delivery, hesitates and says ‘and that’s all I know about...’

It was very, very odd...so there is somewhere in the guest house he doesn’t know about? If he doesn’t know about it, how can he say he doesn’t know? And he testifies he always stays at the guest house... so he is very familiar with it you would assume. It is a very odd statement.

I decided to look up the interactive online guesthouse plan a member posted here, and found that there is actually a storage room in the guest house. Not mentioned by AS. It is right next to the kitchen, and appears to be a good size.

On the photos I have seen on line, ( after it was freshly painted) it seems to be a relatively large, windowless room with heavy open pipework on the ceiling. (Easy to throw a rope over IMO. Certainly there would little chance of sound escaping ( historical records seem to state that the walls and ceiling are concrete))

Combine this strange hesitation and what I would describe as an odd ...’ that’s all I know about...’ reference, with the statement that she was ‘hung in the guesthouse’ on the 911.

Then add AS complete inability to offer any description whatsoever of how he found RZ other than ‘something hanging’...he couldn’t say which way, how high, facing, still, moving...nothing...no recollection.

This cements my opinion that RZ was never hung from that outdoor balcony, but died in the guesthouse, IMO probably in that storage room, and was staged on the grass. He can’t recall how she looked, because she was never hanging from the balcony...

What do you guys think? I would very much like to hear your opinions on this aspect and the odd comment...

(I will try my best and post my trial stuff tomorrow if you are still interested in reading it, I’m sorry it’s so late....( all this is just a theory and my opinion and personal interpretation, it seems I should clarify that as I don’t know how to do a swanky footer message like you clever crew!)

 

[Lezah]

From the Judge's reaction to the voluminous motion presented by AS, it was no doubt the finest of legal brief that money can buy!

However, I trust the Judge's factual, on-point comments to this motion were both a morale boost and comfort to RZ plaintiffs. As Mr. Greer crafts his closing argument, no doubt he's emphasizing the very same the Judge offered today.

JUSTICE FOR REBECCA.

Seattle, you’re so right about the judge. She seems a really, really good and very fair Judge, and she is very attentive throughout every day I have been at trial.

 

[Peaceful]

Also from cynic’s link...

>>snip


The defense then filed a 13-page motion for nonsuit, claiming that Greer had failed to present any eyewitness, law enforcement, scientific or documentary evidence linking Shacknai to the death.

Bacal disagreed in part, saying there were inferences a jury could draw from testimony presented by various expert witnesses called by Greer to talk about knots used on the ropes that bound Zahau and handwriting analysis of a message painted on a bedroom door.

However, the judge dismissed a cause of action for conversion, that Shacknai “intentionally and substantially interfered with Zahau’s personal property.”

Greer told the judge the property he was referring to included the long-sleeved blue T-shirt used to gag Zahau's mouth. He admitted he had no evidence that the shirt was hers.

A second piece of clothing that supposedly had disappeared — a sparkly striped dress she wore the afternoon before her death — could be seen in a sheriff’s crime scene photo presented to jurors. The dress and her light gray jacket were plainly part of a heap of laundry on the floor of the mansion’s master bedroom closet.

>>snip

Fellow WS members, can I ask your opinions on a theory?

As you know, I have felt for some time the guest house has great significance in the death of RZ. I believe the 911 mention of the guest house by AS as where RZ ‘hung herself’ may well be a parapraxis ( or slip of the tongue) and this is also reinforced by AS during his actual testimony ( and now seemingly also accentuated by the Judge in her ruling on the motion today)

It is a seemingly innocuous mention, relating to a description of the guest house by AS when under cross examination by his defense attorney. It stuck out to me like a big, sore thumb. It is at about 55 minutes into the first set of AS testimony online ( ch8) regarding his description of the guest house, if you would like to see for yourself.

AS is being asked to describe the guest house by his defense, and continues on to explain every single room, up to and including the galley kitchen, then, he stumbles in his delivery, hesitates and says ‘and that’s all I know about...’

It was very, very odd...so there is somewhere in the guest house he doesn’t know about? If he doesn’t know about it, how can he say he doesn’t know? And he testifies he always stays at the guest house... so he is very familiar with it you would assume. It is a very odd statement.

I decided to look up the interactive online guesthouse plan a member posted here, and found that there is actually a storage room in the guest house. Not mentioned by AS. It is right next to the kitchen, and appears to be a good size.

On the photos I have seen on line, ( after it was freshly painted) it seems to be a relatively large, windowless room with heavy open pipework on the ceiling. (Easy to throw a rope over IMO. Certainly there would little chance of sound escaping ( historical records seem to state that the walls and ceiling are concrete))

Combine this strange hesitation and what I would describe as an odd ...’ that’s all I know about...’ reference, with the statement that she was ‘hung in the guesthouse’ on the 911.

Then add AS complete inability to offer any description whatsoever of how he found RZ other than ‘something hanging’...he couldn’t say which way, how high, facing, still, moving...nothing...no recollection.

This cements my opinion that RZ was never hung from that outdoor balcony, but died in the guesthouse, IMO probably in that storage room, and was staged on the grass. He can’t recall how she looked, because she was never hanging from the balcony...

What do you guys think? I would very much like to hear your opinions on this aspect and the odd comment...

(I will try my best and post my trial stuff tomorrow if you are still interested in reading it, I’m sorry it’s so late....( all this is just a theory and my opinion and personal interpretation, it seems I should clarify that as I don’t know how to do a swanky footer message like you clever crew!)

That is a very interesting theory! I agree there is more to the guest house. Her dirty feet show she was walking around at some point outside. The broken table is also very strange. I feel like the reason provided for it being broken is farce.

Big, big thanks to all of you! What a great job you are doing!!!

 

[Seattle1]

Lezah-- Please know I find your theory a spot on possibility, and offer the following for your consideration:

1) Guest house was never considered a crime scene, and any evidence never collected.

2) RZ likely strangled in guest house.

3) More likely witnessed screams audible to/from the guest house struggle.

4) If ever hanging, RZ was raised from the ground and not over balcony.

5) The (broken) table more likely required to raise RZ than to cut her down.

6) AS could reach RZ from balcony, and didn't need table

7) AS cutting doesn't fit in recorded 911 call.

8) Just like the utterance about girl hung at guest house, AS slips again in polygraph with the order he called 911!

Again-- that bloody table is a real thorn in my side. A distraction?

 

[Verboten]

Seattle, you’re so right about the judge. She seems a really, really good and very fair Judge, and she is very attentive throughout every day I have been at trial.

I've been meaning to mention this. From what I have heard and seen so far, I am quite impressed with this Judge. She does strike me as very fair, and seems to be very on point in terms of what she's allowed in, her response to objections, and now her response to this nonsuit. I really appreciate feeling that there is a fair arbiter in the courtroom.

 

[Verboten]

Lezah--I definitely think your general theory is on the right track. The guesthouse may have played a much bigger role. I can't really figure out exactly what might have happened to get her there (lots of options as to how it started, etc.), but we've got the guesthouse that Adam is well familiar with. There's the unmade bed in the second bedroom, women's clothes, makeup wipes, underwear in the trash can, an admission to masterbation (you'll find my sperm here), and the failure to view it as a crime scene, etc. Add to that the "Freudian slip?" in the 911 call, the existence of the storage room as you've described, and the apparent "hog tie," it does make sense. Repots of the loud music were said to be coming "from the compound" not necessarily the main house.

In listening to his testimony regarding the guesthouse, I didn't really pick up on it being this big hesitation or stumble before he wrapped it up, then again it can take me awhile sometimes. I'm sure it was different being in the courtroom. But, his utter inability to describe seeing her hanging definitely would suggest she may never have been hanging from the balcony. I'm really happy the judge mentioned the 911 "hanging in the guesthouse..." That's amazing!

Lezah-- Please know I find your theory a spot on possibility, and offer the following for your consideration:
Again-- that bloody table is a real thorn in my side. A distraction?

Wait, *bloody* table? How'd I miss that it was bloody???

 

[Seattle1]

snip

Wait, *bloody* table? How'd I miss that it was bloody???

Sorry -- me bad

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bloody

very mild swearword used mainly in Uk but also very common (I am told) in Austrailia. Can be used before or in the middle of words/phrases to emphasize meaning - be it good, sarcastic or bad. It really does sound silly when americans say it - think about it, it's the equivalent to a brit saying 'mall' or 'nimrod' ...

 

[Seattle1]

Lezah-- Please know I find your theory a spot on possibility, and offer the following for your consideration:

1) Guest house was never considered a crime scene, and any evidence never collected.

2) RZ likely strangled in guest house.

3) More likely witnessed screams audible to/from the guest house struggle.

4) If ever hanging, RZ was raised from the ground and not over balcony.

5) The (broken) table more likely required to raise RZ than to cut her down.

6) AS could reach RZ from balcony, and didn't need table

7) AS cutting doesn't fit in recorded 911 call.

8) Just like the utterance about girl hung at guest house, AS slips again in polygraph with the order he called 911!

Again-- that bloody table is a real thorn in my side. A distraction?

Correcting my own quote folks - sorry, my heritage showing! bloody (mild swearword), not blood plasma.

 

[Sharyne]

I've had company for a couple weeks and am just today finally caught up on what's been happening with this trial on this forum. I want to thank those who have reported from watching the trial in person and all the discussions and theories.

Thank you all posters and Moderators and Tricia for her interviews with Greer.

 

[Verboten]

Sorry -- me bad

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Bloody

very mild swearword used mainly in Uk but also very common (I am told) in Austrailia. Can be used before or in the middle of words/phrases to emphasize meaning - be it good, sarcastic or bad. It really does sound silly when americans say it - think about it, it's the equivalent to a brit saying 'mall' or 'nimrod' ...

Hahaha! Ooopps! I took you literally there.

 

[Mica]

Update from Rebecca’s ...


Day #2 of week #4 trial was long. The defense had Denys Williams (lead forensic technician at the time of investigation) on the stand. She tried to say that the rope burn on her middle finger (the side next to the ring finger) was the source of blood that’s on the knife handle. But she could not explain how Rebecca would have held the knife handle to get blood on all four sides of the knife handle and below the 2nd rivet. The blood is not where one would hold a knife. Attorney Greer showed her picture of her hand showing no blood on her hand. She tried to cover her lie by saying Rebecca was probably washed when photo of her hand was taken but the photo obviously shows dirty hands and she had not been washed yet. Autopsy photos are taken before decedent is washed. She also lied on stand and said she saw 2 sets of full foot prints when in fact their own reports and detectives told us the prints were partial toe prints and partial heel prints.

Next was Michael Macceca, (criminalist who processed the foot prints and trace evidence). The defense tried to lead him to say there are full sets of foot prints on the balcony. They focused on that issue today. I don’t think the defense realize that the footprints whether partial or full does not prove she committed suicide. All the other evidence proves she was murdered.

They also played Rebecca’s ex-husband deposition trying to show she had boyfriends and had impulsive tendency. That brings to my point like I have said before to the Sheriffs department if Rebecca was stressed, depressed, and/or overwhelmed because of ex-wives and his teenager kids, she would have packed up and left Jonah and his baggage. She worked out and wrote her feelings in her journal as her outlets. By the way the San Diego Sheriffs Department did not bother looking for her journal. She lived for the moment and loved life too much. And no matter where she was in life, she loved Jesus.

Jonah also chose to keep her journal and all letters from my father to Rebecca. Most of them are in my language, Zahau. Instead he gave that to the defense and they have tried to use it during depositions and trial to try and show Rebecca did not have good relationship with her parents. He kept properties of my sister that he has no right to them. He also accused me of going to Spreckels Mansion and taking Rebecca’s clothes/things few days after Rebecca died. I never went to Coronado island or near that house while we were here to get her body as he accused me per letter sent to me by his attorney Dan Webb.

The defendant’s attorneys filed another written motion today to dismiss the case saying we have no evidence that Adam Schacknai killed Rebecca but the judge denied the motion to dismiss especially since first responders, San Diego Sheriffs department, and Adam Schacknai puts himself there. The trial will continue so the jury can decide based on the evidence presented to them. Thank you all for your prayers. Please continue to share the link to raise awareness and support. The funds raised does not go to our attorney but goes to pay bills we owe to the experts in excess of $50,000 for their testimonies.

Help spread the word!

https://www..com/rydrn-justice-for-rebecca

 

[Pi2016]

Jonah also chose to keep her journal and all letters from my father to Rebecca. Most of them are in my language, Zahau. Instead he gave that to the defense and they have tried to use it during depositions and trial to try and show Rebecca did not have good relationship with her parents. He kept properties of my sister that he has no right to them. He also accused me of going to Spreckels Mansion and taking Rebecca’s clothes/things few days after Rebecca died. I never went to Coronado island or near that house while we were here to get her body as he accused me per letter sent to me by his attorney Dan Webb.

The defendant’s attorneys filed another written motion today to dismiss the case saying we have no evidence that Adam Schacknai killed Rebecca but the judge denied the motion to dismiss especially since first responders, San Diego Sheriffs department, and Adam Schacknai puts himself there. The trial will continue so the jury can decide based on the evidence presented to them. Thank you all for your prayers. Please continue to share the link to raise awareness and support. The funds raised does not go to our attorney but goes to pay bills we owe to the experts in excess of $50,000 for their testimonies.

Help spread the word!

https://www..com/rydrn-justice-for-rebecca

My heart breaks for Rebecca's family. I stand with them in their belief that Rebecca was murdered.

Sadly, I do not believe the right person is on trial. I also wish this was a criminal trial, not a wrongful death case. The LE community failed Rebecca and I think it is a travesty.

That being said, if I were on THIS jury, I would have to vote NOT Guilty. Adam being the one to find Rebecca and staying in the guest house is not enough for me. I do not think Adam had any motive to kill Rebecca.

No matter what happens here, my only consolation is the fact that there is no statute of limitations concerning criminal murder charges.

 

[minorone]

My heart breaks for Rebecca's family. I stand with them in their belief that Rebecca was murdered.

Sadly, I do not believe the right person is on trial. I also wish this was a criminal trial, not a wrongful death case. The LE community failed Rebecca and I think it is a travesty.

That being said, if I were on THIS jury, I would have to vote NOT Guilty. Adam being the one to find Rebecca and staying in the guest house is not enough for me. I do not think Adam had any motive to kill Rebecca.

No matter what happens here, my only consolation is the fact that there is no statute of limitations concerning criminal murder charges.

I have been reading articles trying to understand the difference between “preponderance of the evidence” and “beyond a reasonable doubt”. The amount of evidence required appears to be that "more than 50% of the evidence points to something” and is the burden of proof required in a civil trial.

"The preponderance is based on the more convincing evidence and its probable truth or accuracy, and not on the amount of evidence. "

With that in mind I would vote guilty in this case. I really feel the police mishandled and dropped the ball in this case & think it is unfair that police are not being held accountable in courts on a lot of levels. I feel Adam may not be the only person involved in her murder, but definitely played a huge role in her death.

 

[Jade]

My heart breaks for Rebecca's family. I stand with them in their belief that Rebecca was murdered.

Sadly, I do not believe the right person is on trial. I also wish this was a criminal trial, not a wrongful death case. The LE community failed Rebecca and I think it is a travesty.

That being said, if I were on THIS jury, I would have to vote NOT Guilty. Adam being the one to find Rebecca and staying in the guest house is not enough for me. I do not think Adam had any motive to kill Rebecca.

No matter what happens here, my only consolation is the fact that there is no statute of limitations concerning criminal murder charges.

BBM


No big mystery or drama just a garden variety sociopath acting on his Asian *advertiser censored* fantasies with no regard for the circumstances or setting

Have you listened to Tricia’s interview with Greer? If not it will be of interest if you are having doubts.

All IMO

 

[NotAtAll]

Hahaha! Ooopps! I took you literally there.

Yikes, I did too. I was trying to figure out when I missed that the 3-legged table was bloody too Thanks, Seattle1 and Verboten for lightening the mood a bit - unintentionally so - but both of you did, nonetheless. At least for me, for a moment.

My heart goes out to RZ's family and my heart breaks for little MS as well. This case has so many overwhelming aspects and if you let it, it can really consume you.

 

[claudianunes]

My heart breaks for Rebecca's family. I stand with them in their belief that Rebecca was murdered.

Sadly, I do not believe the right person is on trial. I also wish this was a criminal trial, not a wrongful death case. The LE community failed Rebecca and I think it is a travesty.

That being said, if I were on THIS jury, I would have to vote NOT Guilty. Adam being the one to find Rebecca and staying in the guest house is not enough for me. I do not think Adam had any motive to kill Rebecca.

No matter what happens here, my only consolation is the fact that there is no statute of limitations concerning criminal murder charges.

I don't think anyone is shouting "guilty" because he was simply staying in the guest house, there is a ton of stuff that does point to AS. Plus, in a huge amount of cases like this one, there is no motive. People kill because they want to. That's their motive.